Official CRG Cap and T-shirt?

[IZRSSS]

The reason this topic was started is because John’s CRG cap raised some interest over at another thread; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10110.0

What are the possibilities of resurrecting that cap or coming up with a new design all members can agree on? And what about donating all of the profits to a charity of CRG’s choice?

Yes, no, maybe…ideas please.

[Mike S]

 Count me in!

Mike

[lakeholme]

X2

[maroman]

Me too. Maybe the $$ should go to Kurt to help pay for the site we use ?

[MyRed67]

I like the idea, count me in.

[BillOhio]

I would be interested. I always wondered how this site is supported too???

[vtfb68]

Order me a Tee shirt too! I will provide a picture of my car for the screener.
  VT

[68camaroz28]

Oh yea, I like the idea and believe it would be a safe assumption that many members would partake but we do have an important matter to consider, that being who (CRG members) would possibly take on a project like this. When we discuss possible design, receiving orders & receipt of $$$, ordering of hats, and subsequent hat shipment to members it can become quite extensive in time. And then there is the near future if someone else wants to purchase a hat like a new member. Just quite a few things to think out! 
I again like the idea but know from experience how what seems like a small thing can be quite time consuming for a few. 
 

[69glacierblue]

Count me in...cap and t-shirt(s) if it gets up and going.  Maybe someone on the site has been or is currently in this type of business? 

[IZRSSS]

Chick - Yes it is quite an undertaking and anything worthwhile usually is. I think the benefits CRG would gain by utilizing the proceeds would certainly justify the added effort. And why stop with the caps, as mentioned previously add t-shirts to the mix; Maybe one First Gen for each of the three years on the back of the shirt and CRG’s Logo up front. I don’t care which cars represent each of the three years; all I ask is that the t-shirts base color be black. Black seems to complement us guys who have dropped our chests. As for the caps, keep it simple and maybe other colors could be explored along with the caps quality. And maybe the caps color could be picked to complement the shirt.

I think Dennis makes a good point. I bet there are members who can lead us in the right direction...

One more thought in case this thing goes through; FWIW, the 3 cars for the t-shirts could be survivors. One vote here for John's Z. Couple that with what he's meant to the hobby...

[BillOhio]

I vote for Johns Z too. Not only a great car but also for all his advice he offers

[IZRSSS]

Glad you agree and in case anyone’s interested let me take it one step further; I don’t think there’s anyone who helps out more and devotes more time to CRG then Ed. I think Ed also owns a very rare ’68 RS/SS L89 (at least I hope he still has it). I think we’d be hard-pressed to find a more deserving member or car.

And then there’s Jon whose Trans-Am Camaro thread series is nothing short of spectacular. I think he owns two very rare ’67 Z’s.

Any other recommendations out there?

[BillOhio]

Ed has given me alot of information too.  great guy. Compared to some of the other hobbies I have had, I have met alot of great people in Camaros that dont mind helping you out.

[XP836]

  As a nubie,Count me in also . dropped chest and grew a rather large forehead!!!Include a paypal option as I already use it alot.(Always looking for parts )

[69Z28-RS]

I think lots of people (who participate here) would like to have a hat/shirt to represent themselves as serious members of the Camaro hobby, BUT...  before your idea takes wings, you should coordinate with Kurt (or whomever owns the CRG logo/website/etc)...   someone does.. and they have to approve this plan FIRST... 

Gary

[IZRSSS]

I think lots of people (who participate here) would like to have a hat/shirt to represent themselves as serious members of the Camaro hobby, BUT...  before your idea takes wings, you should coordinate with Kurt (or whomever owns the CRG logo/website/etc)...   someone does.. and they have to approve this plan FIRST...  

Gary

Yep you’ve stated the obvious. Just throwing some ideas out there hoping he’ll eventually hone in one way or another to let us know if this pipe dream is even possible…

[click]

Over at Team Camaro, years ago, the previous owner, Al, set up a system with a company in Iowa, (forgot the name) and all he had to do was provide approved logos etc. and then folks just direct ordered from the company in Iowa. The TC site never had to mess with anything. Im sure a similar situation could be set up for CRG 

[IZRSSS]

Thanks Jim. That seems like something worth exploring.

CRG???  

[Rich]

Awakened from the dead for my biannual post... I will note that the core group is having a discussion spawned by this thread.  There are issues associated with creation and selling of items with CRG logo designs that we haven't yet wanted to deal with.  But we're talking about it.  Main thing is we're all plenty busy and bird-dogging this though all the issues would require some time, and even if there were helpers, a core member would have to oversee it, and we don't as yet have a core volunteer for this.

That said, not previously appreciating the demand for such, I just dug up my "original" CRG hat (complete with some sweat salt stains on the black brim - needs to be washed).

If the core group itself also doesn't object (I haven't asked yet ) to a one-off auction (we don't do these things here, normally) , would there be any interest/objection to me auctioning this off here with the proceeds to benefit the American Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy victims?

Rich

[tmodel66]

Rich I'm all in on the auction if it comes to fruition.  Great idea and a sure bet on the help.  I know it ain't much but I'll open for a Hundred.   (Hey it had to start somewhere)

[KurtS]

Anything with the word Camaro on it needs to be licenced. So GM needs to approve.
And it would need to be done like Jim mentioned so that someone isn't burdened with collecting money and distributing all the caps.

[IZRSSS]

Just curious; does anyone know the details of turning sales over to an apparel print shop? My guess is they are responsible for coming up with all the upfront money? Do they also get to keep all the profits, or are the profits shared?

FOOD FOR THOUGHT… IF CRG & GM GIVES IT’S BLESSING; (actually I was in the process of posting this at the time Kurt posted )...

My wife is an elementary school principle and I have watched her work her way through the ranks. One observation I can attest to is that the majority of educators have an extraordinary amount of dedication, drive, and most important… unbridled energy! Couple that with youth and you have a multitasking freak on steroids... which reminds me; isn’t there a new core member who meets this criteria? Yep, and I believe his name begins with Warren.

If I understand Rich correctly it would appear there is a glimmer of hope of having the CRG cap and t-shirt thing become a reality. If this is true then let me be the first to nominate Warren who I know is chomping at the bit to oversee this venture. Given his repertoire of jumping through hoops to satisfy his school district, I think he is the perfect candidate for the job. And again, knowing educators as I do, this process would be nothing more than a blink of an eye for this newest of red guys.
  
…although I do see the distributing and collecting money part as Kurt alluded to becoming a burden…

[MyRed67]

FWIW,,, not trying to dampen any spirits.  In my search this Summer to find a T-shirt that closely resembled my car, I heard more than once that Chevrolet/GM is very stingy with licensing T-shirts.  And I'm sure they probably want their fingers in the profits.  I do like this idea and I'm in if it comes to be.  I know I'm getting off the topic here a little bit, my solution to my my search for a T-shirt?  I had a one-off Air-Brushed one made, (no licensing needed for one-off items)  I've attached a photo, AWESOME job.

[69Z28-RS]

'Chevrolet Camaro' would need GM licensing, but would 'Camaro' by itself?  Isn't that a common spanish word (if memory serves?)..
If 'Camaro' is a registered copyright, then we could do 'C * M A R O  Research Group'.  *G*

PS>  Even if Camaro is a registered 'automobile name', generally trademarks/copyrights are only protected within the specific market; since CRG isn't putting the word Camaro on autos and selling them, it is probably OK..

[IZRSSS]

Very nice Mike but this is more of what I had in mind. The cap and shirt would be navy or black (white works great on you... no signs of dropped chest  ) and the back of the shirt would have the three cars CRG members vote to represent each of the 3 years. KIM, skies the limit for the back...

Maybe the back of the cap can have a "First Gen Authority"/ "Camaros.org" script.

[IZRSSS]

...

[MyRed67]

Marty, like your idea.  I wasn't suggesting Airbrushing,as I said, it was a little off the topic. I was just trying to explain, that was one way of avoiding licensing issue.

[lakeholme]

Marty,

There are some places that will do small quantity orders, but you still have to pay initial set up fees, etc., and the cost per unit is higher.  There are larger car clubs that do that sort of thing for name tags and hats.  BTW, the hat in John's pic and your hat example are two color setups and that's a little more expensive than one color.

If someone were willing to handle it, then we'd come out a lot cheaper if we made a large order and dealt with shipping them.  That means each individual would need to pre-order.

I'm still in favor of the hat idea, if the Core Groups approves.  But with our "givens" they won't be inexpensive.

[IZRSSS]

Phil - I guess there's no harm exploring options at least until someone irons out the details or pulls the plug. I've got a call into a local mom and pop shop who supplies stuff like this to the local schools. Let's see what preliminary #'s look like so we at least know what we're up against cost wise. I'll post them once I have them in hand.

[Sauron327]

Just like business cards or any other paper advertising, there are on-line services for clothing printing and embroidery. Upload your artwork, logos, layout etc, or use their programs to design your own. It's not difficult, I've done my business cards with my own photos. They're on file, whenever I have to restock I just order them. Prices are on every company's site. Or just walk into your local shop.

[IZRSSS]

I found a site that's exactly like you described. I think I'll play with it a while and see what I can come up with.

Thanks Scott.

[IZRSSS]

Guys – here is the first quote from a company by the name of CustomInk. All of the prices include tax and shipping costs. I also included the link of the shirt and cap. Hopefully they’ll come through and be large enough to see.

Hat (Navy-buckle back);
12 (min) @ $25.69/hat
200 @ $9.44/hat
500 @ 7.65/hat
2000 @ 5.87/hat

T-Shirt (Navy)
5 @ $34.15 ea
200 @ 14.07 ea
500 @ 11.16 ea
2000 @ 8.17 ea

And of course the price continues to drop depending on quantities. Also, the 3 camaro's in the back of the shirt will be slighly larger.

The T-Shirt; http://www.customink.com/designs/crgtdesig1/mph0-000s-9my4/hotlink00 @

The Cap; http://www.customink.com/designs/hat/mph0-000s-9n5x/hotlink {The logo should probably be tonned down just a tad}

& a description of the cap; http://www.customink.com/styles/b/valucap-bio-washed-hat/159500

[BillOhio]

There's a guy near me that did some embroidered farm name hats for me. They were good quality and like $6 each. Had a picture and name with town. On t shirts you would probably want silk screened?

[69ZX77MP]

Count me in x2

[BULLITT65]

How about instead of three pictures on the back,  just simply:

RS           SS           Z/28

Done like each of the emblems possibly?

Just an idea....

[adjudimo]

Yea, I sorta agree! That way people won't/can't complain about the cars chosen, not looking at least simular to theirs for whatever reason. Not that I'm concerned in the least myself, and maybe homage should be paid to the more important and documented true survivors for each year. But those choices/dicisions would be better left for the guys from CRG with more knowledge, history and data to pull that off. And just for consideration concerning the previous post mentioning the SS - RS - Z28 captions only and done in their original style/font and colors. I like that idea also. Just might wanta throw in ZL-1 in the mix. I doubt that names like Berger, Nicky, Yenko, etc. could be used due to licensing, but that might look sorta neat also along with whatever design chosen if this idea becomes fruitful. I see the vendors have permission evidently to use the logo's, they offer and sell the stickers/decals.   

[lakeholme]

Any progress on this?

[cook_dw]

Count me in as well for a shirt and possibly for a hat.

How about instead of three pictures on the back,  just simply:

RS           SS           Z/28

Done like each of the emblems possibly?

Just an idea....

I like that idea with the emblems.

[BULLITT65]

It may look better to have the Z/28 emblem flanked by the RS and SS, like book ends? If I was good at photoshop I could cut and paste an image together

RS                   Z/28                  SS

   

[IZRSSS]

Something like this? My guess is something with just the outline's of the 3 emblems?

[tmodel66]

That's good Marty. You are Da Man !! Except I want SS on top.   

[IZRSSS]

maybe homage should be paid to the more important and documented true survivors for each year. But those choices/dicisions would be better left for the guys from CRG with more knowledge, history and data to pull that off.    

I like this idea a lot.

[BULLITT65]

I like the emblems the way you mocked them up on the shirt. But the Z/28 may overshadow the SS and RS, enough for guys to want "the SS on top". Thats why it may look better to have :

RS      Z/28    SS

Plus the SS guys will like the SS out front, I would think....

[Mike S]

I like the emblems the way you mocked them up on the shirt. But the Z/28 may overshadow the SS and RS, enough for guys to want "the SS on top". Thats why it may look better to have :

RS      Z/28    SS

Plus the SS guys will like the SS out front, I would think....

I agree. The Z should be in the center due to the slash so that would maintain some symmetry but CRG should be the most prominent size to display and the model designations smaller.

Mike

[BULLITT65]

I was thinking the emblems could be prominent on the back with the website above them just below the neckline, And then have the large CRG banner on the front possibly?

[MyRed67]

I like your rendition as is Marty!  But I agree with Mike S.  CRG should be more prominent.

[IZRSSS]

Thanks Mike but all I’m trying to do is post ideas for folks as I get them. Keep em comin and I’ll do the best I can to illustrate the different ideas using the shirt as a prop.

[tmodel66]

What about losing the RS completely? It's just a bling thing. I mean SS and Z/28 were performance models. If you want you could add ZL1 as another hi performance.

[BULLITT65]

I know the RS is just trim, but there are  a lot more guys out there with the RS option than the ZL-1 option. So I thought having the RS would help the symmetry as well as be more inclusive to guys who may just have an RS. You could do this :

RS         Z/28              SS

     ZL-1         COPO

but I think it may start looking to busy. Just like if you started listing all the motors, to busy I think

[IZRSSS]

What about losing the RS completely? It's just a bling thing.  

What holiday you celebrating 


 

there are  a lot more guys out there with the RS option than the ZL-1 option.

Amen

[hgger69]

What about losing the RS completely? It's just a bling thing. I mean SS and Z/28 were performance models. If you want you could add ZL1 as another hi performance.

I dont se why they should be there at all? It's always such focus on Z and SS! If it's an official CRG t-shirt or cap it should be neutral!!
....or why dont put X44, X33 etc in there as well!...you se how stupid it could look!

[IZRSSS]

One member suggested leaving it simple and only using the CRG logo (t-shirt). I like this idea also although the only people who know what CRG is are those who have been members for an extended period of time, and those who stumble on the site by chance, which is how I found it. If the decision is made not to use pics or symbols, the CRG logo should still be defined by what its mission is/represents, First Gens. I think at the very least the phrase; "Primary Research and Restoration Data for First Generation Camaros” should be included and perhaps “camaros.org”.

I don't know of a better way of free advertisement. It reminds me of buying a new vehicle with the dealerships plate still attached...which I usually deep-6 asap. Kinda the oposite of what we do now.

BTW, bare with me because I know I'm rambling on about something that's a pipe dream at best...

[BULLITT65]

I think having the emblems on the back is going to attract more attention to the shirt, and a lot of people recognize each of them, and would make the connection.  The X-44 X-55  etc.., I think people would miss the point. BUT I do think if you have the CRG banner on the front you should have the website on the back above the emblems, then maybe below the emblems you could put some kind of a quote like " Answers for your first gen Camaro"  or something that identifies the mission of the site.

[IZRSSS]

I like all these ideas but I think once you start picking and choosing which emblems should and should not be included you run the risk of leaving out ~50% of the cars and their owners. One of the reasons I stopped purchasing my own t-shirts is because none of the First Gen shirts have RS/SS on them. My guess is the owners w/o their cars being represented by emblems won’t make a purchase. I know I wouldn’t.

What about something like this; CRG Logo and website in front & CRG Logo and “Primary Research and Restoration Data for First-Generation Camaros” followed by a pic (if approved) of our own cars on back?

http://www.customink.com/lab?cid=mph0-000s-d9s1#shared
Hit rotate to see the back...

[joesauer]

Marty,
My vote is keep the CRG logo + wording.  Loose the RS, SS, etc. but add (in small lettering) the web address.

[Mike S]

Marty,
My vote is keep the CRG logo + wording.  Loose the RS, SS, etc. but add (in small lettering) the web address.

I kind of like this idea more. The shirt on customlink looks very nice so you're onto something now. IMO, a picture will eventually fade with washings. Having the wording embroidered would look much better vs screening.

[Sauron327]

Just the logo and a brief one liner of 1st gen focus is simple, effective and professional. Anything else is overkill. It's a shirt, not a brochure. Other theme shirts are plastered with colorful graphics and lettering. Camaro owners know what models are available. If I saw a shirt that sparked my curiosity, I'd ask the wearer more information. Business shirts generally have logos above one breast and/or on the back in conservative fashion.  Individual cars screened on the back eliminate volume discounts and wear out quickly.

[IZRSSS]

Point well taken...Same one liner as in CRG's cover pg? Or maybe you have another one in mind? I think CRG's pretty much sums it up.

http://www.customink.com/lab?cid=mph0-000s-db22#shared

[BULLITT65]

I think it looks a bit to conservative. I like the CRG Banner:  I would have the CRG banner with red back round large and centered across the front of the shirt, have the website either under it or on the back by the neckline and then some eye catching emblem(s) on the back: either RS    Z/28    SS *or  have the CAMARO chrome emblem with your one liner under it.

Now if things went well and you wanted to develop a polo shirt, then I agree with Sauron327 that you keep it small. Polo shirts are more business oriented and have a small logo on the front.
My friend gave me a GOLDEN GATE MUSCLE CARS (car club) shirt and it is black with the golden gate bridge across the center with there logo in the middle, I think a t shirt lends itself to more artwork.
If you are just going to create a small logo, why not just hire a vendor to make a CRG patch, then guys can purchase them and put them on T-shirt or POLO, or hat of their liking
which ever color they want.
problem solved.

[lakeholme]

Just the logo and a brief one liner of 1st gen focus is simple, effective and professional. Anything else is overkill. It's a shirt, not a brochure. Other theme shirts are plastered with colorful graphics and lettering. Camaro owners know what models are available. If I saw a shirt that sparked my curiosity, I'd ask the wearer more information. Business shirts generally have logos above one breast and/or on the back in conservative fashion.  Individual cars screened on the back eliminate volume discounts and wear out quickly.

X2 Simple is better.

[tmodel66]

X2 Simple is better.


I think it's KISS Phillip !!  

[IZRSSS]

X2 Simple is better.
I think it's KISS Phillip !!  

Just somthin the cat drug in. You'd have to admit though; that's one fine set of wheels! Luv that car!

I think it looks a bit to conservative. I like the CRG Banner:  I would have the CRG banner with red back round large and centered across the front of the shirt, have the website either under it or on the back by the neckline and then some eye catching emblem(s) on the back: either RS    Z/28    SS *or  have the CAMARO chrome emblem with your one liner under it.

http://www.customink.com/lab?cid=mph0-000s-dbx1#shared

[MyRed67]

Marty>>>>>;
Who knew this would get so complicated???  You're NEVER going to please everybody.  Just me,,,,I still like your original rendition.

[IZRSSS]

Mike - don't tell anyone but between me, you, and the fence post...me too! 

[Sauron327]

When I said simple I did not mean small on the front and back. Small logo on front with large logo on back. Some like things large on the fronts of a shirt, some don't. Some like busy, some don't. Some don't like shirts with anything written on them. Everyone has different tastes and you won't nail them all. A few design elements are all I'm offering.

[lakeholme]

X2 Simple is better.


I think it's KISS Phillip !!   

Sure, like I said, Keep It Superiorly Simple! 

Back to my question, any progress?  . Please... 

[IZRSSS]

Scott - You’re certainly not going to please everyone nor should we be trying to. For me anything that shows CRG’s logo is just fine. I actually like them all; simple version, the “brochure” version, the three car version, etc. It makes no difference to me which version is decided on as long as CRG’s logo is on it. There are probably some members who are holding back with some great ideas. As for the cap, I think it’s a no brainer; Stitched logo up front and perhaps Camaros.org stitched on back.

Maybe once all of the ideas are on the table we can put it to a vote and see where it leads. I think the bottom line again is; which one of these ideas best represents what CRG’s mission is, which one is preferred by the majority, and which one sells the most shirts?

BTW; Can someone change the title of this thing to; "Official CRG Cap & T-Shirt?"  

[NoYenko]

Marty I have been playing with your ideas and I like your first one the best. I photoshoped the same idea with 1st Gen Camaros on the sleeve. The only other idea I had was to add "Camaro Archeologist's" under the Logo.

[Sauron327]

Marty I have been playing with your ideas and I like your first one the best. I photoshoped the same idea with 1st Gen Camaros on the sleeve. The only other idea I had was to add "Camaro Archeologist's" under the Logo.

If those words are chosen instead of what's under the site's logo now, omit the apostrophe. No offense, they are often misused.

[lakeholme]

Marty,
Definitely need the web site on shirt and cap.  That makes all of us traveling advertizements for the site!!!

BTW, thanks for the PM and my car in your illustration...     

[IZRSSS]

Thanks George! I like your idea of placing the script on the sleeve and your one liner is certainly on the mark. I think what I like most about your idea is that it is unique on both counts.

Also, thanks for your vote of confidence. I think you mean this one; http://www.customink.com/lab?cid=mph0-000s-9jtj#shared
What I like most about it is its tie to the home page and the intentions of paying homage to the 3 most deserving cars worthy of the CRG namesake.
 
Please keep the ideas coming because in the end all ideas will be placed in the mix and voted on.

Phil -   and X2 on the website!

PS, thanks for changing the heading on #67 & 68 but for some reason it didn't take

[NoYenko]

I should be out working on my car, but this is interesting too. Another version. George

[BULLITT65]

I like the CRG banner on the front, I like the Camaro emblem script, but on the back of the shirt

[hgger69]

I should be out working on my car, but this is interesting too. Another version. George

Now you're cookin with gas!
I really like your t:s here above but in a mix! Put the CRG-loggo in the front, together with web adress and the Camaro-script and text in the back! ....you're definitely in to something here!

[JKZ27]

So far, i'm in favor of the simple designs: Small logo offset front/Large logo and website on the back or Small logo offset front only or large logo and website only on the back. The sleeve lettering is nice also. I'm not really a fan of adding emblems or RPOs or stripes etc to the shirt because that would no longer distinguish it from any other "car graphitti" shirt worn by most car show attendees. SS RS Z28 may send a message saying "we dont pay attention to low peformance Camaros" which I believe is certianly not the case. If the idea is to sell as many shirts as possible to everyone or attract attention then I think trashing it up is the way to go. I think the shirt should appear classy and professional, like this site. John Z's hat is what started this and its simple. Thank you Marty for all your effort and everyone for your input.

John

[IZRSSS]

Excellent logic John and thanks!

Again, great ideas guys and please keep them coming! But before the cart gets too far ahead of the horse let’s try to address Kurt’s critical point of money handling and distribution. The easier we make this thing on the red guys the more receptive I think they’ll be. Please offer any suggestions/recommendation for selling and distributing these t-shirts and caps. Maybe someone can check with a print shop to see if they would be willing to handle this for us. And, if the answer is yes then other p-shops might be willing to negotiate as well. Say work off a percentage which would go to CRG for website expenses/whatever, or to a charity of their choice. I would think that in this economy a guy could probably pull off some pretty sweet deals.

Another point to make is that this venture will probably have to be a one-off proposition (as in limited edition...limited to the amt we can sell). I'm sure CRG wouldn't want the responsibility of house sitting this thing with no end in sight, nor would that option even be considered by a print shop.

[maroman]

Marty, the easy way is to pre pay. Calculate shipping up front, to cover that. That way CRG has no $$ invested, and you know who's serious. I still think profit should go to CRG to help pay for bandwidth.

[maroman]

Set up a PO box to collect the $$ and give a drop dead date. Anyone that misses the boat is out.

[NoYenko]

I took some of the suggestions and made up some new pictures. The font for Camaro script on the back is not an exact match, and I don't know if we could use a copy of an emblem legally.
There is a T-Shirt print shop near me that is allways looking for our work. I will ask them if they would be interested in selling, distributing & sending a set profit to CRG.
George

[hgger69]

Lookin good!
....but I think the web address should be like "www.camaros.org" in small letters!

The words " Camaro archaeologist" maybee have to be approved by Kurt or someone else responsible for the site!?

[IZRSSS]

Good advise Doug, thanks!

There is a T-Shirt print shop near me that is allways looking for our work. I will ask them if they would be interested in selling, distributing & sending a set profit to CRG.
George

That would be a huge help.
Thanks George!

[BULLITT65]

I agree on the web address. The short mission statement is well placed. So far I like this version the best. Thanks for the time you guys have spent putting together our ideas into a visual idea of what the shirt could look like.

[IZRSSS]

Here's what we have so far. Please let me know if I missed any.

[IZRSSS]

...

[IZRSSS]

...

[IZRSSS]

...

[IZRSSS]

I also want to mention that none of the above samples are to scale, obviously. These are simply rough renditions of what members have come up with. Once a selection is made we can discuss logo & font sizes and their exact locations.

Thanks for changing the heading Kurt!  

[IZRSSS]

...

[MyRed67]

Marty;
      My vote is for sample 10.  Thanks for all you've put into this.

[hgger69]

Lookin really good, dudes!
My vote so far for no 6 front and no 5 back! 

[Sauron327]

     I would not be concerned with duplicating the Camaro script (cursive). and receiving a cease and desist for logo infringement. Besides myself, there are thousands of custom painters who use Harley logos and legal actions have not been encountered. Not to mention every other company's logo painted on vehicles. When logo use problems arise, it's generally due to certain boundaries being overstepped to generate income for products and services that infringe on registration rights.
    The money bag symbol was copyrighted by someone after it was discovered nobody ever did. It's use is common. And while the logo's legal owner could stop anyone who uses it without his permission and demand royalties or excercise a cease and desist, it's rarely done. When it was, it was done to flex the owner's muscles.
    
    The back of #10 is awkward. We naturally read top to bottom and left to right. The repetition of the font
forces you to do this, even with the color change. When information is divided and sandwiched, it's done with font and layout differences.
    You've put a lot of work into this Marty.

[NoYenko]

Allot of great ideas, thanks Marty & others. My vote would be #10 front and #6 rear. I like it without "www" before camaros.org I don't think it is necessary as everyone knows camaro.org is a web address. Camaro.org seems to stand out better on its own. Simple is cleaner. Having the archaeologist tie in explains what we primarily do on this forum. Just my 2 cents. George

[Steve68]

My wife has a small silk screening business she has operated for several years.   Some of the work she has been for the US Airforce, Little Debbie, Verison and other registered or owned names and logo's.  It is her opinion that the word Camaro in CRG is not protected as it is part of the name for CRG.  She is also a professor at a local college which takes up most of her time.  I asked her if she could give me an idea of costs.  Without being specific to each proposed design she said that each color requires a separate screen.  The cost is spread out over the entire order when possible.  There are 4 colors involved with just the CRG logo.  Any additional item like cars can get into multiple colors and thus screens.  Placing an individuals car picture on a shirt is really adding to the cost.  In addition to the screen costs are the material costs, ulabor costs, shipping, etc.  The bottom line is a shirt can get very expensive real quick.  Just some info to chew on in looking at what folks want.  By the way, hats are difficult to screen and generally shops will charge more for them.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Thanks guys for giving us vital information on infringement wrights. This obviously has a significant impact on whether or not this venture moves forward or not. Here we are trying to put something together for CRG, its members and perhaps a charity, and the last thing any of us want is for this thing to backfire. Obviously this topic is way over my head so I’ll leave this one to the experts. In the mean time I’ll just keep plugging away with the design end of things.

Steve – please thank your wife in advance for offering to help. We can certainly use her expertise!

Scott – I made a couple of new samples of #10, taking into consideration your advice…thanks!
          BTW, the main reason I keep toying w/this idea is because "Camaro Research Group" will be omitted from the logo. I think its important people know what CRG's mission is.

George – I made some adjustments on yours. I don’t know partner; it’s starting to grow on me…

[IZRSSS]

...

[Mike S]

I vote for #14 in color, design and layout but...

I would eliminate the ' #1 source.....' line as it sounds like it's selling something. How about what the home page states...
"Research and Restoration Data for First-Generation Camaros"

Mike

[IZRSSS]

Hey Mike...I don't know how I missed that. The whole purpose of this design was to tie it to the home page. I like!!!

Here are two versions;

[tmodel66]

Marty I'm sorta weird about things. I'm a neat freak and I'm a BIG fan of white. Could you plug this up on a white shirt so I can see it. Thanks and a great job my friend!! (if you still call me one )

[IZRSSS]

Daniel who, what, where, when...Consider it done partner!!! I'll have it up sometime this evening. Gotta go check on something... I think they call it work.

[69Z28-RS]

Agree on the white:   I wear T shirts mostly in the summer months, when it's HOT, and when I'm at a car show (OUTSIDE- repeat HOT) I'm wearing car related T shirts...   WHITE reflects most of the sun's heat....  

PS>  To reiterate what was relayed from Steve's wife:   the number of colors (and screen/masks) are what drives the cost more so than anything else.   With front and back logos, you have separate screens for each color (for each of the front and back)...  so with red/white/black on front, and red/white on the back, you have five screens involved.   If you stick with one color per side, you have only two screens...

Gary / 69Z28-RS

[69Z28-RS]

Tmodel66:    Aren't we all sorta weird?  To be spending so much time, effort, and $$ on 40+ yr old cars??   

[tmodel66]

Tmodel66:    Aren't we all sorta weird?  To be spending so much time, effort, and $$ on 40+ yr old cars??   

Point well taken Gary but you know the old sayin'   "Somebody's gotta do it".  

[camaro jock]

I know that I have no vote because I am a newbie but number 12 looks clean and simple to me. White or blue is fine. thanks, Darrell

[IZRSSS]

Here you go Dan;

[IZRSSS]

I know that I have no vote because I am a newbie but number 12 looks clean and simple to me. White or blue is fine. thanks, Darrell

Darrell – I think we’re still a ways off from the official vote but what you stated couldn’t be farther from the truth. Once this thing is put to a vote anyone can participate as long as they are registered members. I’m not really sure if newbie’s have access to this sort of thing but if they do then absolutely them as well. So you see, only visitors will be excluded (so you V’s had better sign up quick).

Please keep your mock voting going because it gives us a better idea of which way this thing is leaning…

[IZRSSS]

Guys – There have been several concerns regarding multiple colors. All prices below (explained in reply #31; I should have posted sample pics instead of links) were quoted for a buckle back hat/cap with an embroidered logo. The T-shirt quote is based on the most elaborate of the bunch; Sample 1. So unless I’m missing something these prices are actually pretty good. My point is that it seems like were leaning more and more towards a less is more approach (try saying that fast 3x after a cool Bud) for the T-shirts so the prices can only go down from here.

Example; 200 hats @ $9.44…heck I’d pay ~$20.00 to $25.00 including COD. That would be a bargain & a sweet profit to boot. Same for the T-shirt; 200 @ $14.07…I’d pay a minimum of $25.00 for those.  

Hat (Navy-buckle back);
12 (min) @ $25.69/hat
200 @ $9.44/hat
500 @ 7.65/hat
2000 @ 5.87/hat

T-Shirt (Navy)
5 @ $34.15 ea
200 @ 14.07 ea
500 @ 11.16 ea
2000 @ 8.17 ea
 

[lakeholme]

Marty,
Not sure if you can attach it to this thread, but have you thought about a poll to see who is interested and for hat, shirt or both?

[tmodel66]

Thanks Marty !!  Not bad looking shirt and the logo shows up good on the front.

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
Not sure if you can attach it to this thread, but have you thought about a poll to see who is interested and for hat, shirt or both?

I’d love to Phil but I think it’s a bit too soon. My guess is we need to decide on a T-shirt design first. As you can tell there are quite a few differences of opinion and I’m afraid a poll at this point would be skewed.

Maybe I should have mentioned this earlier (order of business)…

1.   T-shirt designs.
2.   Vote on designs.
3.   Locate a print shop that meets our demands
4.   Pole regarding who will purchase the hat/T-shirts & how many will be purchased by each member (if the numbers aren't there it gets scratched).
5.   Green/Red light from CRG to move forward with this or not.
6.   A prepaid commitment by members for merchandise.

Did I leave anything out?

Thanks Marty !!  Not bad looking shirt and the logo shows up good on the front.

Your welcome Daniel.

[Steve68]

Marty, do you know if the price quotes you received are for shirts screened once or are double printed?  Single prints don't hold up very well.  I know my wife always double prints.  That is, put ink down, flash dry, print again, final drying.  I have double screened shirts where the material wears out before the print deteriorates.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve - Good qustion! Let me shoot the Co an email and I'll get back to you...

[IZRSSS]

Steve – Here is Customink’s response to your question. Please let me know if this method is sufficient to meet our needs. I mentioned the Hanes T as an example of the quality I was looking for.
 
Hi Marty,

Thanks for sending in those emails, I wanted to get back to you since Cate is out of the office for the day.

The hats will be embroidered, as we aren't able to screen print on these specific hats.

The shirts will be screen printed with a couple of layers to make sure all the colors show through. We would use a white color first and then add the red color for instance for the front design. Also, the Hanes Beefy T is a great shirt to print on. It's made from 100% pre-shrunk cotton, so it's super soft and comfy.

Please let me know if you have any other questions and I'll be happy to help you.

I hope you have a great day!

[adjudimo]

Still following this thread and after viewing the illistrations that have been submitted thus far, (and by the way; THANK YOU MARTY) I agree that less is more. I think the shirt should totally represent and support the CRG web-site and not worry about any other additional criteria. I actually like #'s 15 and 16 designs myself and I know that there is much more thought and finalizations to settle before this can become a reality. Just a thought, might Pay-Pal account be a way to recieve/secure payment for the orders that come in if indeed this happens? I know that I would like both a cap and shirt. Might even swing for two shirts if they are available in either black/navy blue and white. Would probably leand toward a dark cap. My past experiences with white caps are they are just a little too hard to keep clean when worn or stowed, especially if your at a cruise in, car show or the garage. And besides, I guess I'm sorta a dark knight kind of guy! :-)

Will continue to follow thread and see what developes.
J.R.

[IZRSSS]

Just a thought, might Pay-Pal account be a way to recieve/secure payment for the orders that come in if indeed this happens?

One of the important issues in all of this is shipping. I have been hesitant to mention this because the shipping from Custumink is free, but at this point only to one individual. My intentions were to use this as a negotiation tool in that a vendor would either wave the shipping charges or offer it to us at a discount rate.

My other concern dealt with the issue of how CRG gets its profits. You mentioned a “Pay-Pal” account; do you have one or know of someone who does and would be willing to provide this service? I believe there are several members that sell on eBay or have this type of account. For those of you familiar with this process please let us know if this is a viable option and if so, can it be applied here?

J.R. - Thanks & BTW I agree with your choices.  

[Steve68]

Marty

Wife said Hanes Beefy T very good shirt.  She also said we could go with a heat press design.  The print is done on a heat release paper.  Then this is heat pressed on the shirt.  Can be cheaper and still quality product.

Steve

[Mike S]

My other concern dealt with the issue of how CRG gets its profits....

I would take this off line and discuss with the CRG folks privately. There are legal implications here when it comes to the word 'profits' unless CRG is a registered nonprofit organization with a 501 filing that can accept income.  

Mike

[tmodel66]

OK Marty I've been hesitant to get my hands wet because of my health but I would be willing to take the whole order and ship out to the individuals that ordered. I'm already set up with Paypal. I'll check on prices today for the boxes to ship the caps in and we can ship the shirts in thick envelopes.  I can print my own shipping labels at home and let the mailman pick the orders up when she delivers my mail. We can work out the fine details as we get closer but one snag. People that don't have paypal will have to send me a check and that will cut into shipping out orders but I hope that will be understood.

[IZRSSS]

Marty
Wife said Hanes Beefy T very good shirt.  She also said we could go with a heat press design.  The print is done on a heat release paper.  Then this is heat pressed on the shirt.  Can be cheaper and still quality product.
Steve

Steve – Glad to hear the HBT is a good quality shirt.

You certainly got my attention when you mentioned how well your wife’s printing method holds up over time (print out lasting the shirt). How does the “heat press design” compare?
In addition, is your wife set up to do embroidered logos on hats? If not would she/you be willing to receive & distribute these to complete the package?

And I think you knew this was coming; how do your prices compare to Custumink’s? And what can you offer in the way of handling all orders, including CRG’s profits (or whatever) & shipping?

Thanks again Steve

[IZRSSS]

My other concern dealt with the issue of how CRG gets its profits....

I would take this off line and discuss with the CRG folks privately. There are legal implications here when it comes to the word 'profits' unless CRG is a registered nonprofit organization with a 501 filing that can accept income.  
Mike

Mike - Point well taken but again I know my limitations and this is something I am certain CRG is looking into. My only job at the moment is to keep this thing rolling so that everything is out on the table so that CRG can make an informed decision. Please KIM that I've kept this in the forefront the entire way; "before any of this can become a reality CRG must approve"!  

Thanks!

[IZRSSS]

OK Marty I've been hesitant to get my hands wet because of my health but I would be willing to take the whole order and ship out to the individuals that ordered. I'm already set up with Paypal. I'll check on prices today for the boxes to ship the caps in and we can ship the shirts in thick envelopes.  I can print my own shipping labels at home and let the mailman pick the orders up when she delivers my mail. We can work out the fine details as we get closer but one snag. People that don't have paypal will have to send me a check and that will cut into shipping out orders but I hope that will be understood.

BIG TIME THANKS DAN!!! Let's wait and see what the vendors have to say but its good to know you'll be there in case we need you!!!

[Steve68]

Marty, she knows the business.....that's for sure and you don't get the "big guys" jobs unless you do quality work.  The problem is she is so busy with school........in addition to instructing she is a program head for her department and there is very little time during the school year to do any printing.  She might agree to do this during the summer (spring really). Do folks want to wait a few months?   Heat press is good option.  Will be comparable to screen print and can be less cost.  She doesn't do embroidery.  If she would agree to do the shirts (I need to ask when she gets home tonight) she might do close to cost since it is for us,  if we ask real nice.  I think she can do paypal now.  If not could get it set up.  As for shipping she has handled that individually.  I know she ships UPS for one time large orders to one place not sure how she handles one shirt to a single address ( will ask her).  She is a licensed business here in Virginia and has been printing since the early 80's.  I'm not sure how efficient and cost effective it is for some company to print the shits and send to someone else for distribution.  I would think the printing company would need to be both the shipper/distributor to keep costs down.

Question:  are we spinning our wheels here?  Is "management" seriously considering an  approval to move forward?  Rich, Kurt what are your thoughts on all this?

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve - The company names you mentioned earlier certainly got my attention. I didn’t mention anything at the time because all I saw were $$$ signs. If those companies are satisfied with your wife’s work then I am certain everyone here would welcome her into this venture with open arms!!!
 
I don’t think the caps would not be an issue because Custumink has already agreed to waive the shipping costs & these can be shipped directly to you.

As for waiting a few months I can only speak for myself but this might be a blessing in disguise. It would give CRG more time to iron out the details and we more time to nail down a design.

BTW, Count me in on “the ask real” nice part. You just say the word!  

[Steve68]

OK.  I will let you know how she feels about taking on the job.  You can make some $ on screening but it is a very competitive business.  Those big named guys really make you jump through a bunch of hoops and they closely examine a sample product before giving you  permission to proceed.  I understand why because it represents the company in so many ways.......quality being right up there.  That's one reason she double prints and uses top of the line tees.

I'm not clear on which design Custunink quoted but design definitely drives the price.  Will Custumink not ship hats to individuals?

Steve

[IZRSSS]

I sent Custumink an email and will let you know on the hats. If for some reason they can't meet our needs, Daniel (Tmodel66) has offered his services.

Here is the T-shirt/design they quoted me on (which was before we started exploring new designs);

Thanks!

[IZRSSS]

Custumink does not ship to individuals. Here's their response;

Hi Marty,

Thank you for the fast response.  At this time we don't offer shipments to direct individuals, we can only ship to one location.

If you have any other questions please feel free to let me know, I'll be happy to help you.

Have a great day!

[adjudimo]

I agree with Marty. Waiting until spring might give the ultimate decision makers time to work out their options and requirements concerning all of this. We don't need to rush into this half cocked and impatient just to sport a cap and shirt. I am only expressing my opinion here and hope others will continue to do so. I have several shirts, caps that represent my love of these ole cars, including a few I custom ordered from www.themastersgarage.com and they nailed the look of my '67 SS/RS 396 right down to the brand of tires I have on it. For those of you that want a shirt with your car on it, they offer custom shirts and will work with you through e-mails showing designs they render and will make changes to it if you need to change things up. However, they will only be willing to do this so many times before they ask for additional fees; so make your dicisions as early as possible to avoid the charges. They will also add wording such as Marty's Garage or whatever. Sorry Marty, just had to have your presence on another shirt :-) The Hanes shirts are really nice shirts and you can get them pre-shrunked cotton, which is very important.
J.R.

[IZRSSS]

Thanks J.R. ! Any other opinions on waiting until spring or perhaps anything else that's been discussed so far?

If anyone has more ideas for designs please do not hesitate to hone in. Even if it means taking one design and altering it to your liking.

This might help keep track so none of the designs get lost in the mix (please let me know if I missed any);

[IZRSSS]

...Sample T-shirts continued;

[Steve68]

I asked real nice and the wife said that if we could wait until school is out (spring) and depending on the design she will do this for us.  Without getting into the details, as she did with me, this stuff can be very time consuming and complicated.  She is willing to help us out but would perfer to avoid running into technical problem......like multiple layers of ink going over each other.  Complicated designs can be a real pain in the......well you know.  . Bottom line, the more simple the design the better.  I suggest a decision on the design, approval from CRG, and then see what the cost comes to.  She indicated that given the design chosen that it might be possible to also put it on golf shirts if anyone was interested.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve – Based on the samples above, which ones would you consider simple? Please let us know so that future designs are kept within these same (simple) guidelines.

[maroman]

My vote is for 4 or 5, nothing on the back. If they don't know what CRG is it doesn't really matter does it? 

[hgger69]

Please don´t forget all of us that live in the real world outside US and A and also want to buy theese items!
...thinkin about shippin, tax etc ...

[IZRSSS]

My vote is for 4 or 5, nothing on the back. If they don't know what CRG is it doesn't really matter does it?  

I think the size of the CRG logo is what sells this design. It’s simple, professional, and to the point. I like this design a lot but my only concern is maintaining the logo’s size and the integrity of the words “Camaro Research Group”. I think the meaning of CRG is important if you think in terms of marketing…CRG’s business card. My guess is it will be about the size of the logo in the upper right hand corner of this page and be very hard to read from 2' and beyond (~1 1/4" X 11/16" on my screen @ 125% zoom).

If my printer wasn't down I'd copy several sizes of the logo to see what the smallest is we can get away with...can someone help us out with this one? I think the words should be visible from a minimum of 3 to 4'. Sorry...the worst thing is having First Gen guy's designing shirts...details, details, details...

Just another 2 cents...

Thanks Doug!

Please don´t forget all of us that live in the real world outside US and A and also want to buy these items!
...thinkin about shippin, tax etc ...

Does anyone know what the cost would be for shipping these over seas?

[Steve68]

Steve – Based on the samples above, which ones would you consider simple? Please let us know so that future designs are kept within these same (simple) guidelines.

Sure, I will ask my wife to take a good look at the samples and then relay which ones to you.  Will be sometime this evening.  I will attempt to see if an approximate overseas shipping cost (this changes all the time) can be determined.  Will you guys over there give me a zip code to work with?

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve - Thanks for checking into these!

[hgger69]

Steve – Based on the samples above, which ones would you consider simple? Please let us know so that future designs are kept within these same (simple) guidelines.

 I will attempt to see if an approximate overseas shipping cost (this changes all the time) can be determined.  Will you guys over there give me a zip code to work with?

Steve

Try Sweden and zip code S-90421 !

[Steve68]

Appears I need city too.

[IZRSSS]

There hasn’t been much discussion on hats and I’m curious to know if there is a preference on style and color. I know I keep harping on dark colors but Navy Blue has always been a personal favorite. But again, the majority rules and like the T-shirts, these will be voted on as well.

Here is a style of hat I’ve had for about 4yrs. I have looked for blanks online but haven’t been able to find this particular style. Part of the material looks like it’s patterned after carbon fiber and the intensity of the red changes depending on which direction the light is coming from... kinda cool. I think they call this a “sandwiched” baseball cap. Notice how thick the bill is.
  
Please offer any suggestions you might have.

Thanks again!

[HOT3O2]

Hey Marty, You might want to take a look at the "Flex Fix Hats". We've used those for years with our Scout Troop and Little League Teams. They have the look of a regular ball cap and one size fits all. There lite and fit well. Just a suggestion.

[vtfb68]

Can we do anything with polo shirts?  they look classier.
  Victor

[hgger69]

Appears I need city too.

City is Umea!

[IZRSSS]

Hey Marty, You might want to take a look at the "Flex Fix Hats". We've used those for years with our Scout Troop and Little League Teams. They have the look of a regular ball cap and one size fits all. There lite and fit well. Just a suggestion.

Rick – This is the closest I've ever come to finding one that resembles my cars color. Come to think of it I believe we used the flex hat back in school. If I recall they hold up pretty well. I think I'll order this one for myself…Thanks! 

[Steve68]

Can we do anything with polo shirts?  they look classier.
  Victor

From reply 128 above: She indicated that given the design chosen that it might be possible to also put it on golf shirts if anyone was interested.

Victor, golf and polo same type shirt.

Thanks Hakan,  I'm betting it's pretty expensive.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

I agree with Victor. Polo's might come in handy for Spring & Fall shows.

[lakeholme]

I agree with Victor. Polo's might come in handy for Spring & Fall shows.

Yes, they are.  Marty, since you have already started with that custom site, why not see what price they have on polos, logo included?  I will tell you this: there is a wide variety of quality and cost in polos, but they "wear" both in fit and time well for most people.  I've got a 9 year old AACA judge's polo that still looks fine.  On the other hand, once you open the door to varied articles, the next thing you know you'll need a catalog...  

[IZRSSS]

Phillip - Good idea, let me shoot them an email and I'll post their response as soon as I receive it.

Thanks! 

[Steve68]

Marty

The wife said that numbers 6 and 7,  then 10 - 17 would be good ones to work with.  She said to be aware that going from a black shirt to screening on a white shirt would necessitate separate screens (more cost).  Otherwise you are  cleaning out screens every time you switch from black to white (time consuming and not cost effective for her).  As I indicated above she prints on many different types of articles....polo or golf shirts included.  She typically will use a Hanes brand polo shirt.  It doesn't matter though what the brand shirt ( tee or polo) a person wants but keep in mind that the difference in price of different brand shirts can cause a change in the final price out the door.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve – I will isolate these samples so we have easy access to them when needed. Would I be correct in saying 4 & 5 will also classify as simple designs? I am also assuming 10 thru 17?

I assume Phillip asked for assistance from that other company on Polo's to save you Guy's additional “leg work”.  But there is no doubt in my mind once the information was had, we would turn it over to you for advice with regards to quality and price. But if you have this info readily available please give us your recommendations.

Thanks!


Steve - The other company responded while I was writting this post. They would like to know if we would like the logo embroidered or printed? What would be your recommendation? Again, this is for the Polo...

[Steve68]

Yes , include 4 and 5.

It's almost impossible to provide a price at this point.  Once the design is picked it really doesn't matter what it is printed on.......tee, polo or whatever.  The cost would only change depending on the shirt.  She can price all of it out but needs to know which design to use.  She can pick a quality tee and polo and sizes from small to XXL.  Price each one.  Anyone pricing without the specifics is quoting to be sure they make a profit regardless of design.  She is willing to print at cost for us.

As for print or embroidered logo.  I personally would not like an embroidered logo on the front and a screen print on the back....just don't think that would look right.  Don't know if the embroidered costs more or less than print......sorry.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Sorry Steve…I should have made myself clear; I requested a price for the Polo because I think most members would opt for the plain small CRG logo up front and nothing else.

Marty

[Steve68]

Marty

Once the design and type shirt(s) are decided I would recommend getting several quotes from some reputable printers.  Some screen printers are so large that they can offer really  low prices.  They can also require a minimum purchase.  The biggest problem will be distribution of finished product.  I talked to my wife about this and we would probably use the USPS packing at fixed cost "if it fits it ships".  

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Steve - Good advise because according to custumink the embroidered version is much better for Polo shirts but the down side is cost. Something tells me we should place the Polo on the back burner for now. I think we have enough on our plate with just the T & cap. Before you know it we’ll be asking Kurt to allow us to explore having a Spring, Summer & Fall CRG clothing line. 

Anyway, I promised a quote and here it is (actually not all that bad);

Screen Print
Gildan Ultra Cotton Polo (Navy); 200 S-XL @ $10.00 ea ($2,054.00), 500 S-XL @ $9.53 ea (4,765.00).

Embroidered
Ultra Club Pique Polo (Navy); 200 S-XL @ 17.26 ea ($3,452.00), 500 S-XL @ $15.47 ea ($7,735.00).

[Mike S]

When in comparison to what we spend for our cars I would gladly pay the small extra cost and go with embroidered apparel. It's only the cost of a 6-pack above a screen print and looks richer.

Mike

[IZRSSS]

Mike – I am okay with gathering all the necessary info to put the Polo’s to a vote. The problem again is with shipping. I think we’re going to have to ask Daniel (tmodel66) really, really nice if he’d be willing to ship these along with the caps. The other important issue right along with the T’s & Caps is meeting the numbers to make it feasible. I would say a minimum of 200 presold units.

What's your take on it?

[hgger69]

When you say polo shirt is it what we in Europe call tennis shirt lookin like this:


I personally would rather order one quality shirt like this instead of a tee and a cap! 
And I also don't like the navy color at all: Better to offer them in black or white! 

[tom]

Dang, I missed a lot since Sandy came to town! I like the smaller offset front logo with camaros.org on the front. I would like to see how a larger logo above the words "the 1st gen authority" would look on the back.

[dutch]

Personally I would rather have a small decal to put on the corner of a windshield or window of my car (much like the old US Camaro Club once had years back) rather than become a walking billboard..
Something small and tasteful that plainly states the reason behind this group and how to make contact (email address or?) so someone looking closely at a group member's car that wishes can learn more about the nuances of various models etc. - would in my eyes be more preferable - but each to their own I guess.
Randy
 

[IZRSSS]

When you say polo shirt is it what we in Europe call tennis shirt lookin like this.
I personally would rather order one quality shirt like this instead of a tee and a cap! 
And I also don't like the navy color at all: Better to offer them in black or white! 

Yes...tennis, polo, golf, and sometimes collared...same thing.

The color of each individual merchandise will be voted on once the designs are finalized.

[IZRSSS]

Dang, I missed a lot since Sandy came to town! I like the smaller offset front logo with camaros.org on the front. I would like to see how a larger logo above the words "the 1st gen authority" would look on the back.

Here you go Tom. Glad your okay!!!

[IZRSSS]

There is still a lot of preliminary work that needs to be done before we can decide on colors. One, select a design for the T-shirt; two, select a style of hat/cap; and now three, select a design for a Polo shirt (my guess is the simple offset logo but with or w/o the website). Once this is done we can move on to a POLL to select colors for each and to see how many COMMITMENTS we have. Please KIM that I think we need a minimum of 200 prepaid orders for each of the three items to make this feasible (keep the costs down).

We are very fortunate that Steve's wife has agreed to help with the T-shirts. I don't think any of this would be possible if it wasn't for her generous offer. The same can be said about Daniel and his offer to ship the hats (and now I hope the Polo's  )...please take some time to thank these people.

And last but not least (and I cannot stress this enough); TO SEND THIS TO CRG FOR THEIR FINAL APPROVAL/DISAPPROVAL. And I will continue to reiterate this over & over &……….again!

Hmmm…reiterate and over and over in the same sentence…

Please...no more merchandise.  

Thanks guys!

Steve - will you please check to see if the above design (Tom's) qualifies as simple so that I can include it in the list...Thanks!

[tmodel66]

Try Sweden and zip code S-90421 !


About $30.00  This is just a rough estimate but should be pretty close. If I end up doing the shipping  I think I can get it a little cheaper with a little help from my friend at the post office but I won't/can't promise anything.  

[tmodel66]

Marty one big question.  Will the t-shirt have a pocket? If not count me out. I have a  hundred t-shirts  I will not wear because they don't. They are nice and have some great/cool logo's and graphics but I have to have a pocket. Long story but my old job required a lot of paper work and I had to carry pencil and pen every day at work. So now I feel naked without my pen. Sorta like your wallet and things.

[Mike S]

Dang, I missed a lot since Sandy came to town! I like the smaller offset front logo with camaros.org on the front. I would like to see how a larger logo above the words "the 1st gen authority" would look on the back.

Hmmmm......"the 1st gen authority"..........this is growing on me and after seeing Marty's example, I like this the best.

Mike

[tmodel66]

This is the kind of cap I suggest. Thin bill, high crown and easy to set. It has the mesh in back and will breathe in hot summer time.   I wear this style cap all time and they are very comfortable. A lot of the caps on the market now have no crown or they don't stand up. Look awful and wear like crap.

[Steve68]

Steve - will you please check to see if the above design (Tom's) qualifies as simple so that I can include it in the list...Thanks!

Yes, it qualifies.

Tmodel, you can screen the logo over a pocket but it requires an additional step in the process (more $).   The logo can go on the other side as well.  Tees with a pocket are readily available.

Steve

[tmodel66]

Steve that's what we had at the company I worked for was the company name was actually on the pocket. It made for a neat looking shirt.


Marty put up a #1 without the picture.

[Steve68]

She has printed on the pockets of tees and dress shirts (for State agency) but she says it is a pain.  They do look good though.

It looks like shipping to Sweden would be between $17 and $30 depending on flat rate vs weight.

Steve

[hgger69]

Try Sweden and zip code S-90421 !


About $30.00  This is just a rough estimate but should be pretty close. If I end up doing the shipping  I think I can get it a little cheaper with a little help from my friend at the post office but I won't/can't promise anything. 

Ok, I also have alternative adresses in California and N.Y.!

[IZRSSS]

Okay guys lets set a deadline for T-shirt designs; 11/23/11 

Keep the cap ideas coming…

[tmodel66]

No Marty Sorry. I meant the CRG and the full quote of restoration data like on the main page of CRG without any photo like in # 1

[IZRSSS]

Dan - Sorry I deleted that other one...something like this?

[tmodel66]

Yep that's what I was talking about. Now put it on white. 

[IZRSSS]

My bad...How bout now? I see where your goin...red & white cap & shirt...geeeezzzzzz...you styl-in dude!

... Is this one "simple" Steve?

[Steve68]

Yes.  Most shops would charge for another screen when printing on the white shirt.  They don't want to spend time cleaning out screens for application of a different color (black ink to white ink in this case).  It's not cost effective for them (man hrs vs screen cost).

Steve

[Steve68]

Just a heads up on the back deign on shirt in post 172.  That's a lot of ink ($) and there can be alignment problems when it is this big.  You can also feel a print of this size through the shirt and may be uncomfortable to some.  I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from getting this design just relaying possible technical and comfort concerns.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

After thinking long and hard about the Polo shirt I have decided to remove it from the list. Just trust me when I say it’s opened up a whole new set of issues that are difficult to address at this time. We will consider it at a later date, once we get the logistics down with regards to the cap and tees.

Thanks.

Please don't forget this date;
Deadline for T-shirt design ideas; 11/23/11  

[lakeholme]

After thinking long and hard about the Polo shirt I have decided to remove it from the list. Just trust me when I say it’s opened up a whole new set of issues that are difficult to address at this time. We will consider it at a later date, once we get the logistics down with regards to the cap and tees.

Probably a wise decision... I was not kidding when I said above:

On the other hand, once you open the door to varied articles, the next thing you know you'll need a catalog...

[IZRSSS]

I appreciate your above comment Phil!

I removed all designs that had “Your #1 Source…” as this did not get much support. I also removed all designs with large logos. Here’s what we have so far;  

[IZRSSS]

...

[BULLITT65]

Some like the logo big and like promoting the website, and some like it small so they are not " a walking billboard".
Ok, so I have question: What is the point of this shirt?
A. to let people know about this great community of Camaro owners,  but very subtlety,  only if they are right in front of you, and close enough to read a small logo printed on a pocket
B. to raise awareness about the best 1st Generation Camaro based website by wearing a shirt that describes it but only big enough on one side of the shirt.
C. so you can wear a shirt that by some chance of the planets aligning, another CRG member may get a good enough look at it to recognize the small logo and strike up a conversation with you about what a great website it is, and feel like you are a member of a secret society that identifies itself by these special shirts.
D. to let other 1st Gen Camaro lovers and owners know there is a website referred to as the CRG (that someone came up with a great looking logo with a red back round that should not be limited to a front shirt pocket), which anyone could see and read with you coming or going, that you are proud to wear because the website is a great tool for 1st gen Camaro owners, and you hope to help other Camaro owners out there by piquing their interest enough to ask you about it, or they could clearly read he shirt well enough to check out the website themselves.
My point is simply this, if your trying to share the knowledge of the website and all it has to offer with other owners who are not aware of it, why wear a shirt that shows the LOGO so small. Isn't the idea to grab the attention of other Camaro owners  ? A large banner of the CRG logo on the front with the website below it, and then "Camaro" script, across the back shoulder blades with a short mission statement, and the website again, accomplishes this goal.
To the people who don't want to be a walking billboard, isn't this the idea ?  To promote the website?

I may be coming from right field with my ideas here. I am probably one of the younger if not youngest 1st Gen Owners on here. I guess I am lucky I stumbled on this secret website....haha.
I really enjoy the website and how much it has helped me out, I appreciate it so much I don't mind being a walking billboard, and am excited about introducing this website to other first gen owners and adding their cars history, as well as the owners knowledge to our great community here.

Sorry for the rant, just confused about the direction of this shirt and the main reason for doing it is all

[IZRSSS]

BULLITT65 - I agree...we just needed to tone the logo down a tad. Had to do with comfort and price...Reply #174. And, no need to appologize for a rant. Its passion like yours that fuels this site!

Here you go;

[tom]

If the large logo on the back won't work, how about large letters in the same script font used on the cars that reads "Camaros.org", and below that "the first gen authority". Simple, to and the point. For what it's worth, yes one reason I'm interested is to be able to spot and be spotted by others.

[hgger69]

END OF DISCUSSION, DUDES! 
No 11 is da final tee design! Looks and works great!

...and I also agree with you, Bullit65 in every single word! 

[tom]

Excuse my lousy typing in the previous post. It was from the back of a truck on a not so smart phone. Marty - I like what you have done, but lose the quotes. They were only there to identify the text to use, not to be part of it. Sorry if I confused anyone.  

[IZRSSS]

Tom – here are a few variations of what I think you are looking for. When you stated “Camaros.org”... font like on cars, I assume you mean the Camaro script/emblem. This is the best I can do with the font library I have. BTW…very nice! Let me know which ones you'd like included in the mix.

Members: Deadline for Tee design ideas: 11/23/11
{Latest samples on Reply's 177 & 178  - pg. 112... & sample #11 above}

[IZRSSS]

Steve – The letters on the logo (CRG) appear 3 dimensional and give the illusion of reflected light. Best seen on the "Home Page". Probably another pipe dream but can this be duplicated on the "Camaros.org" script above?

[Steve68]

Marty, I will attempt to discribe what my wife told me about trying to get that "look".  This applies to the CRG logo and any other script with that look as well.  You have to start with a special screen that has very small holes.  In order to get enough ink through the holes you have to make multiple swipes.  You have to have the alignment of the hole perfectly aligned with the previous swipe or the registration is off...it gets smeared.  It is possible to do but man what a hassle to print.  I know there may be folks who may be thinking "if she does not want to do it the way we want then she needs to back out".  We would understand that and if members strongly feel they want this look then so be it.......no hard feelings.  She  has been willing to do these at cost for us and an effort to keep it simple with a good look just makes it more ........what's the right word.....palatable to her.

Steve

[tom]

Marty, all the shirt fronts look the same from here, and I am good with them. On the back, I like A, and would like the Camaros.org script from D if it had the same version of the 2nd line used in version A. If I had to choose one or the other I think it would be the Camaros.org script from D, with the 1st Gen Authority from A. 1st Gen Authority should be in a simpler font, like tahoma, IMHO tahoma is about the easiest font to read. The white text stands out bettor on the dark shirt. I would not use the red font. Design, or anything else done by committee can be very frustrating, thank you for your efforts.

tom

[IZRSSS]

Tom - something like this?...& thanks!  

[IZRSSS]

Steve – My apologies for drifting off topic. Scratch reply 185. 

[Steve68]

Marty, no apology needed.  No harm in asking.  We'll get it all worked out eventually.   

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Guys – Major brain freeze on T-shirt design deadline above…Obviously 2012 & not 2011.
 
If there are no objections; let’s end the cap style search on the same day. This way both polls will begin and end simultaneously…dang that’s a big word. Also, the only print going on the cap is the CRG logo, so I don't think we need to labor ourselves over that.
 
DEADLINE FOR T-SHIRT DESIGN & CAP STYLE SEARCH; 11/23/12

[IZRSSS]

Here is a link to the hats offered by Customink. This was the first company that popped up when I did a search (internet). If anyone has another company in mind please hone in. And if you see a cap you like in this link/site, please let me know.

Thanks!

 http://www.customink.com/categories/baseball-hats/3/styles

[tmodel66]

Just looking at these none of look good. They will wear like a rag. The bill is too long and the crown lays back. For a cap to wear right the crown needs to stand up.

[IZRSSS]

Okay...this company looks much better. I should have looked into this earlier.  

Can you guys find anything you like here? There are also several categories to the left of the pics...under product search wizard.

http://www.ottocap.com/products.php

[BULLITT65]

Can the CRG banner be any larger on the shoulder blades? I would like to see a larger banner on the back if it is not feasible on the front. Also the website included in the same font as the mission statement, but have the mission statement above the logo on the back and then the website below banner possibly. One other question I have seen the deadline date for entering our ideas, but is it a separate vote for what color the actual shirt is going to be? Thanks

[IZRSSS]

BULLITT65 – I just want to be clear before I start; Mission statement as in; “Primary Research & Restoration Data for First-Generation Camaros”. And you would like to see this above the logo…correct? And “Camaros.org” below the logo…correct?

As for the size of the logo I’ll try to figure out something we can use to work with so that both you and Steve can determine the maximum size.

Yes, there will be a separate vote for T-shirt & cap color's.

Thanks!

[BULLITT65]

Well it depends if you are going to use  "Primary Research & Restoration Data for First-Generation Camaro" I would put it below the banner and the website above the banner. If you are going to use " the camaro authority" or "camaro archeologists " then I would put either of those statements above the banner ,and the website below it. I think it is a matter of balance. I do like the Camaro script with.org behind it.

[IZRSSS]

BULLITT65 – I hope this is what you’re looking for…BTW, looks nice!

Steve – Both tee pics below represent the back of the shirt. The two narrow outlines in the first pic represent larger logos. Can either of these be used?

Thanks guys!

[TooManyReels]

Marty, you are D-Man !!!!  You and others  have invested a lot of time and work here..Great Work !!! I like the shirt on the right without the outline boxes, but would be proud to own and wear either....

TMR
Eddie

[Sauron327]

Omit the double lines, keep it simple. The CRG logo must camera ready when submitted to the printer in order to duplicate it's 3D effect and drop shadow. Print shops are a dime a dozen.

[IZRSSS]

Eddie - Let me try to do a better job explaining the two outlines; they represent 2 more sizes of actual logos. I did it this way so I don’t have to show 2 more shirts. Sorry, I'm still trying to learn how to communicate with this bucket of transistors!

Thanks for the kind words.

[Mike S]

Marty,

 The way it is on the right side example, I would run with that.
I think you nailed the final markup. I certainly would buy that.

Screen or embroidered? I'd vote for embroidered but I'll take what the final decision is.

Mike

[Steve68]

He's right, there are many print shops out there and the quality of their product is as varied.

Marty, both post 198 shirts are possible.  Keep in mind that the 3D look is difficult to do and that the more ink (logo size) results in a higher cost.   Also, you can feel the logo on your skin when it gets this large.  Can be uncomfortable to many folks.  Additionally, you normally don't see the same logo on the front and on the back of shirts.

Steve

[BULLITT65]

Ok, Marty now I think we are closing in on it. Can you put the website below the banner like option D. (white Camaro lettering looks like the script from the emblem)  from post 184, and of corse the largest banner please. I appreciate the visuals of each example, it is easier to imagine the finished product this way.

[IZRSSS]

B65...maybe? & with or w/o CRG logo up front?

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
The way it is on the right side example, I would run with that.
I think you nailed the final markup. I certainly would buy that.
Screen or embroidered? I'd vote for embroidered but I'll take what the final decision is.
Mike

Thank you Mike. If you like, I can include that one in the poll as well.

BTW...with or w/o the small offset CRG logo up front?

[KurtS]

Wow, lots of effort and ideas going into this.
Marty, thanks for spearheading this.

A couple of comments:

Anything with the word Camaro on it needs to be licenced. So GM needs to approve.

This needs addressed. I know the F-body list did it for some items they had made, so I don't think it's a big deal.

I'm not worried about advertising the site via the shirt. So make a design that y'all are happy with.

I'd think you'd want "The First Gen Authority" (doesn't need to be bold on the shirt).
I'd like to use the Camaro script on the back. It would be cool/retro to do the Camaros.org in that script too. I know that it's just a close font now, but if it gets to that point.....

When voting, you might vote on the front and then the back, since the front is mostly settled.

I don't want to get too complicated, but..... Steve, is it a big deal to get a few shirts that are different? Let's say we went with the black - can another dark color like blue done too and maybe order one shirt for Daniel with a pocket.  
BTW, I dislike pure white - anything off-white doesn't show the dirt and stains as much.

I really like the inherent simplicity of this version, esp the 2 different fonts on the back.

[Steve68]

Steve, is it a big deal to get a few shirts that are different? Let's say we went with the black - can another dark color like blue done too and maybe order one shirt for Daniel with a pocket.  

Blue would probably work if it is a dark blue and the logo looked OK to everyone with blue instead of black.  Substituting a blue shirt for black would mean that the logo would have blue where the black is now.  Anytime a color of the design (logo) is the same color as the material (shirt in this case) the shirt color is used so you don't have to use ink in that area.  Does that make sense?   In other words, where there is black color in the logo, and you print on a blue shirt you would have to use black ink (if blue was unacceptable) to cover the blue material.  This would require additional ink (black) and another screen to be made (more $).  A shirt with a pocket is OK too, they just require an extra step when printing on the pocket.  I hope all that is clear.  If not just let me know and I will try again.

I too like the design in Kurt's post.  The two different back fonts do not create any concerns as long as they are the same color.

Steve

[69glacierblue]

I like the simplicity of the shirts above in Kurt's post.  IMO, nice for the front and back to look different.  Great job by all you guys working on this!

[KurtS]

And this is the script that I and others are referring to....
Not quite sure how to get a good outline of it for a t-shirt. But that's later, if it's a chosen design.

[tom]

Kurt, That's exactly the look I was thinking of. Yes using the factory font for the Camaros.org. That might even be an available font, but if not could probably be captured by camera or scanner with a bit of effort. If not from the the chrome piece from a car, maybe from the available literature.

tom

[IZRSSS]

Kurt – Your support for this venture goes w/o saying. Thanks for the kind words! Wish you had a smiley for whew...

Here are two samples to look at. One with and w/o a capital "T" in "The".

One more question; with or w/o the website in front (below the offset logo).?

BTW - Great pic of the "Camaro" script/emblem!

I like the simplicity of the shirts above in Kurt's post.  IMO, nice for the front and back to look different.  Great job by all you guys working on this!

Thanks Dennis!

[Sauron327]

Kurt, That's exactly the look I was thinking of. Yes using the factory font for the Camaros.org. That might even be an available font, but if not could probably be captured by camera or scanner with a bit of effort. If not from the the chrome piece from a car, maybe from the available literature.

tom

This is what I previously referred to as camera ready artwork. If not submitted to the shop in this manner, it will have to be vectorized by them. Depending on the amount of clean up, there is generally a fee for this service.

[joesauer]

Marty..do we need the "the" before First Gen Authority? Think "Authority" may be spelled incorrectly in 2nd example.

[IZRSSS]

Joe - Let me know if you'd like a version of Kurt's design w/o "the" and I will include it in the list. Thanks for letting me know about "Authority".

Guys...If you have ideas please let me know asap. All ideas submitted will be voted on as long as they are within the parameters we discussed earlier (keeping costs down).

And...not many ideas being passed around about Caps. Please give me feedback.

DEADLINE...11/23/12  

[lakeholme]

Actually, I like the cap that John used for a size reference that got this going...

[IZRSSS]

Phillip - I tried finding something here in the link below but came up empty. I'll send it to this company tomarrow. Maybe they can find us a match.

Thanks!!!

http://www.ottocap.com/category.php?category_id=3

[tom]

I like Johns cap.

[Steve68]

John, would you be so kind to post a couple new pictures of your hat?  Front, side, and back would be great!

Steve

[MyRed67]

Marty;
   I like the Design in Kurts reply #207.  Also per same post Kurt commented on not liking pure White T-shirts, I agree.  The T-shirt I posted in reply #22, is not White, it is called Ash.  Problem with Ash though, is all company don't have the same tone.  Some are a little darker, mine is on the lighter side.

[IZRSSS]

I'll add the design in Reply #207 to the list.

Thanks Mike!

[BULLITT65]

B65...maybe? & with or w/o CRG logo up front?

I like the Image in reply 205, I agree with Kurt if the Camaro emblem font is available I would go with that below the banner  and then add the (S) in the same font and then .org. I also think the website the front would look good below the banner. I do think  "the" 1st Gen authority would look better than without "the". Thanks Marty

[NoYenko]

Marty, Great job. In the post #78 picture I used a font called "Vladmir Script" you might check if you have that font. That is a standard font so the C in camaro could be enlarged on it's own and probably easier to get a screen made. If you want to have the exact emblem script camera ready let me know I can get that done I just need to know what format the screen maker prefers. George

[IZRSSS]

I like the Image in reply 205, I agree with Kurt if the Camaro emblem font is available I would go with that below the banner  and then add the (S) in the same font and then .org. I also think the website the front would look good below the banner. I do think  "the" 1st Gen authority would look better than without "the". Thanks Marty

Your welcome BULLITT65. Is this okay for now?

[IZRSSS]

Marty, Great job. In the post #78 picture I used a font called "Vladmir Script" you might check if you have that font. That is a standard font so the C in camaro could be enlarged on it's own and probably easier to get a screen made. If you want to have the exact emblem script camera ready let me know I can get that done I just need to know what format the screen maker prefers. George

George - I appreciate the generous offer. My attempt is below yours. Obviously this is over my head. I'll let you experts figure this one out. And thanks!

[KurtS]

Here are two samples to look at. One with and w/o a capital "T" in "The".

One more question; with or w/o the website in front (below the offset logo).?

BTW - Great pic of the "Camaro" script/emblem!

I like the looks of using the #, i.e. 1st Gen Authority. But it needs a 'the' to be better English.
Hmm, does it look OK if the word 'the' is a little smaller font or smaller and angled?

I like it on the front with the website, but I figured that was for the poll.

Google Images turned up that emblem.

[BULLITT65]

Looks good marty, I think it is just up to the image gurus now to capture that Camaro emblem font or image and incorporate it into the website address at the bottom. You have done a great job at capturing each of our ideas along the way. Thank you for your time on this

[Mike S]

 OK...so when do we vote? I like the last example 'J' just as it stands.
Thanks for taking lead on this, Marty.

Mike

[IZRSSS]

Sorry Mike I had to delete the posts above you. Techical difficulties.
We will post the details for voting after the deadline of 11/23/12, & thanks!

BUILLITT – As for your thoughts on the “Camaro” emblem script, I agree & thanks for your efforts as well!

Kurt – That’s correct. We did discuss running two different polls, (one for front and one for back) my bad.
Here are 3 more versions;

[IZRSSS]

...

[Mike S]

I like 'J' better in this batch. The differences in letter font type between Camaros.org and 'the 1st Gen Authority' looks best.
The word 'the' in lower case allows 1st Gen Authority to stand out and the difference between script and non-script separates the lines nicely.

Mike

[KurtS]

I like 'I'. That looks nice. Thanks!

[tom]

So far I'm in favor of H from 229. I like the camaros.org on the front the same width as the logo. I would be interested to see how it looks with the word the in all caps on the back.

tom

[lakeholme]

Marty,

Love all this batch!  And that's one of the reason's I like the color combo on John's cap.  The dark bill on the cap and the dark shirt would look great together, especially with a close color match.

And X2 to Tom's comment above!

[IZRSSS]

The short version is all 3 made the list (H, I, J)… Tom-'H', Kurt-'I', & Mike 'J'.
 
Tom – I’ll have a sample of H with ‘the’ in all caps for your review. Even if you like the new version more than ‘H’, ‘H’ will still be on the list because another member likes that one as well.

Guys- let’s not get too wrapped up in the exact layout. All I am looking for at this point are ideas. Once a winner is selected it will be turned over to Steve’s wife and her expertise to finalize the design & forward it to us for our review. I'm just the cut & paste guy...

Also, I plan to combine all those in the running & have them posted sometime on the 21st. This way we can double check to make certain no one was left out.

Phillip - Hmmm!!!

Again...thanks for baring with me guys. I think it will all make sense in the end.

[HOT3O2]

Marty,
Not much input on the hats. Here is one I came across. I think the CRG logo would look nice with the red trim on the hat. The hat is a "Flex Fit 5006" Maybe you could work your magic and put the logo on the hat and show us what it would look like. I'm not that computer savvy. 

[IZRSSS]

So far I'm in favor of H from 229. I like the camaros.org on the front the same width as the logo. I would be interested to see how it looks with the word the in all caps on the back.
tom

Here you go Tom...looks good!

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
Not much input on the hats. Here is one I came across. I think the CRG logo would look nice with the red trim on the hat. The hat is a "Flex Fit 5006" Maybe you could work your magic and put the logo on the hat and show us what it would look like. I'm not that computer savvy.  

Nice hat Rick. I think your right...a lot of potential!

[jacmac]

The shirts look great! As for the hats instead of the red trim how about 2 hockey stripes on each side of the bill? Just throwing that out there!

[BULLITT65]

Hockey stripes?.... how about the most copied design out there, some Z/28 stereo stripes....j/k

[jacmac]

Hockey stripes?.... how about the most copied design out there, some Z/28 stereo stripes....j/k

Thats why I thought of the hockey strips.I seen Z/28 a thousand time!!!! Anyway just a thought.............

[tmodel66]

Hockey stripes?.... how about the most copied design out there, some Z/28 stereo stripes....j/k

Quick question. What's a "Stereo Stripe" ?

[BULLITT65]

thats what the Z/28 stripes are referred as in the advertising back then I believe

[tmodel66]

OK Thanks !! Never heard it called that so I learned something today.

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
Not much input on the hats. Here is one I came across. I think the CRG logo would look nice with the red trim on the hat. The hat is a "Flex Fit 5006" Maybe you could work your magic and put the logo on the hat and show us what it would look like. I'm not that computer savvy.  

Rick - Do you know if they make this design type in something other than "flex fit"? Some folks say the flex fit style doesn't stay on very well.

Marty

[MyRed67]

Marty,
  Aren't design E in reply #212, and design H in reply #229 the same?  Anyhow, put me down for that design front and back.  And I'm very confident you will come up with an equally great design for the Cap.  Many thanks for your time and effort in this project.  Hope the "Powers that be" agree.

[IZRSSS]

Mike - They're real close. The only difference is E-212 has "First" & H-229 has "1st".

Thanks Mike!!

[IZRSSS]

Here is the lattest list of T-shirt designs. Please let me know if your design is not on this list.

Deadline to get your design in is; 11/23/12

Thanks!

[IZRSSS]

...

[HOT3O2]

Marty,

The flex fit was the only hat I came across with that particular design. I'll look around some more to see if it comes in a differrent style.

[tmodel66]

Here's a couple of caps similar to John's picture. One is green bill like his and one blue since the shirt is possibly gonna' be blue. Guys I looked for design billed caps and you are talking big bucks for those. Here's just a couple designs to look at.

[tmodel66]

Couple more and yet more to pick from. But all these designs are running the price upward to $35 or $40 a piece. I don't know exactly because of volume we will order. If price isn't a snag we can get what y'all want but it was mentioned before. KISS.

[MyRed67]

Marty,
  Do 5 thru 10 Back design all have design A on front?  Or do we need to decide that?

[IZRSSS]

Let’s say we have three front designs lettered; D, E, & F. And ten back designs numbered; 11 thru 20. Then we also have three color choices; N, W, & B (navy, white, & black). Then let’s say you like E, 15, & N. This would be your cast vote.

Hope that makes sense. All the details will be explained in the poll.

[camaro jock]

Any chance we could put a washed look T-shirt in the mix? thanks Darrell

[77thor]

I really like what I'm seeing for the t-shirts... lots of great ideas.
But I'm not much of a baseball/truckers cap guy.

[IZRSSS]

Any chance we could put a washed look T-shirt in the mix? thanks Darrell

I really like what I'm seeing for the t-shirts... lots of great ideas.
But I'm not much of a baseball/truckers cap guy.

Darrell & Fred - Can you post a pic or give me a website so I can get a better idea of what you have in mind?

Thanks guys!

[BULLITT65]

Good work on this Marty, my vote on the shirt would be A 8 N.  Thanks for being so patient with us.  I look forward to seeing what magic they can do with incorporating the camaro emblem.

[JohnZ]

<< John, would you be so kind to post a couple new pictures of your hat?  Front, side, and back would be great! >>

Sure - here you go. The front panels have a sort of "hard shell" under the fabric, so the front of the cap stands up straight; not just a floppy hat. The bill is the traditional standard length, not the "extended duckbill" you see on NASCAR hats. I'm not a "hat guy", but I prefer the stand-up front and standard length bill; that's how we make the NCRS hats.

[tmodel66]

I am a hat guy and yes sir Mr. John I too like the hat to stand up. That "liner" so to speak inside is what they call a structured cap.This type cap wears best. Without it it's like wearing a rag on your head.  If I'm not at church or a funeral chances are I'll have a cap on.

[lakeholme]

Once again, I like the hat that started all this.... 

Actually, I'm not much of a hat guy myself, but you spend all day on a show field in the sun, you might as well have a good looking hat.   

[tmodel66]

The only thing I would like to change is the panels in the cap. John's is a six panel. Meaning it has a seam dead center of the front under the logo. I like a five panel which is solid across the front where the logo would be. Just makes a little cleaner look but no big deal. I think they are about the same price.

[tmodel66]

Here's a couple Marty. I think the only difference is the closure. And still more examples to look thru but if these two aren't close enough I need to know what needs to be different before I go looking any further.

[IZRSSS]

Here's one Marty. I think the only difference is the closure.

Scary - I was about to post that same cap a few minutes ago...I had it sent to me by Otto. I also sent them John's lattest pics. I'm wondering if they might have something a little closer. If not that's pretty darn close. I believe it has either the snap on back or buckle. I've looked at so many the last few days I'm cross-eyed. Any way I think I found the same exact match...

<< John, would you be so kind to post a couple new pictures of your hat?  Front, side, and back would be great! >>
Sure - here you go. The front panels have a sort of "hard shell" under the fabric, so the front of the cap stands up straight; not just a floppy hat. The bill is the traditional standard length, not the "extended duckbill" you see on NASCAR hats. I'm not a "hat guy", but I prefer the stand-up front and standard length bill; that's how we make the NCRS hats.

John - Thanks for taking the time to help us out. Great pics!

I'm pretty sure this is the cap;
Click on 6 panel (left column)
Go to pg 22. Cap on lower right corner.

http://www.cobracap.com/ecatalog.html

I’ll give them a call tomorrow for prices.

[tmodel66]

John - Thanks for taking the time to help us out. Great pics!

I'm pretty sure this is the cap;
Click on 6 panel (left column)
Go to pg 22. Cap on lower right corner.

http://www.cobracap.com/ecatalog.html
I’ll give them a call tomorrow for prices.


Yeah that's it Marty. The ones I posted had a cloth slide closure where this one is leather. Might want to compare prices on these two cause I personally think either one will work.

[IZRSSS]

Good work on this Marty, my vote on the shirt would be A 8 N.  Thanks for being so patient with us.  I look forward to seeing what magic they can do with incorporating the camaro emblem.

Thanks for the complements guys & I sincerely appreciate them, but to be perfectly honest; this phase is the easy part. I can’t imagine the time and effort Steve and his wife Barbara, and Daniel will need to donate to see this pipe-dream become reality.  They are without question, the most deserving of this gratitude!!!

Thanks again!

[IZRSSS]

Cap update: The deadline for cap selection has been moved from 11/23/12 to 11/30/12.

T-shirt selection deadline remains on 11/23/13

Marty

[IZRSSS]

Cap update: The deadline for cap selection has been moved from 11/23/12 to 11/30/12.

T-shirt selection deadline remains on 11/23/13

Marty

Another senior moment; T-shirt selection deadline remains the same; 11/23/12

[MyRed67]

Marty,
  Just an idea,  if we are going to go with the White Hat with Blue trim, maybe we should think about doing Blue lettering on White shirts.

[IZRSSS]

The T-shirt voting poll will be posted on 11/26/12. Thanks to all of you who have contributed in this phase and to those of you who have been following along!

As for the caps; we are still trying to iron out the details. On the bright side; we located John’s cap including the logo (I guess they keep records of that sort of thing). I also think you will be quite pleased with the price. As good if not better then what we’ve been quoted for others.

I should be able to post something more definitive by this coming Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks for hanging in there & Happy Thanksgiving!!!

Marty

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
  Just an idea,  if we are going to go with the White Hat with Blue trim, maybe we should think about doing Blue lettering on White shirts.

Mike - I like that idea. We'll keep that in mind just in case the white tee wins.

[IZRSSS]

Here are the caps scheduled to be voted on (the 1st closure will obviously come in khaki). Please let me know if your cap isn't on this list.

Thank you!

[BULLITT65]

I thought the flex fit cap was option?

[IZRSSS]

Please let me know if your cap isn't on this list.

Post a pic or give me the webpage of the cap you want & I will post it for you. At this point we need to be more specific so I can ID the cap.

[IZRSSS]

Marty,
Not much input on the hats. Here is one I came across. I think the CRG logo would look nice with the red trim on the hat. The hat is a "Flex Fit 5006" Maybe you could work your magic and put the logo on the hat and show us what it would look like. I'm not that computer savvy.  

Hi Rick - If you would like this hat (reply 236) on the list please let me know. If the answer is yes, please get me the name of the companies website, and the caps ID#.

Thanks.

[tmodel66]

BULLITT65  Have you ever worn one of these "flex fit" caps? They have elastic in the headband. If not they don't wear good and crawl off your head. To me personally I don't think it's a good choice but Marty can put it to vote on. I'm not making any choice for the group just my observation and I wanted to let others know before they make a choice.

[BULLITT65]

I actually have a couple of them, my new camaro hat from the chevrolet dealership is a flex fit. I personally like the flex fit, wether my hair is a bit long or cut short the hat fit perfect every time. Plus you don't have that patch of hair trying to work its way through the hole of an adjustable with these.  It may depend on how you wear your hat though. I wear my baseball caps like a baseball player, all the way down on my head, I notice some gentleman older than me sometimes wear there hat up high on there head, it may fit differently for them. I like the wool style professional fitted baseball caps the best, but the flex fit is my second choice of hat. I have never had a flex fit crawl off my head, in fact some have a thin band of like a rubber spray that prevents the hat from moving even more, just depends on the manufacturer I guess.

[HOT3O2]

I actually have a couple of them, my new camaro hat from the chevrolet dealership is a flex fit. I personally like the flex fit, wether my hair is a bit long or cut short the hat fit perfect every time. Plus you don't have that patch of hair trying to work its way through the hole of an adjustable with these.  It may depend on how you wear your hat though. I wear my baseball caps like a baseball player, all the way down on my head, I notice some gentleman older than me sometimes wear there hat up high on there head, it may fit differently for them. I like the wool style professional fitted baseball caps the best, but the flex fit is my second choice of hat. I have never had a flex fit crawl off my head, in fact some have a thin band of like a rubber spray that prevents the hat from moving even more, just depends on the manufacturer I guess.

I agree with you 100%. I have 4 or 5 of the flex fit hats and I think they fit well and look great. They even wash well. Just throw them in the washer and then hang them up to dry. Marty, I'll look up that information and get it to you.

[IZRSSS]

Voting for the T-shirt will need to be done on 3 different Polls. Here are the links to each one. Voting will begin on 11/26/12. You will be able to review the results once your vote has been cast. Voting will end; 12/18/12.

Have fun!!!  

Front design; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10198.0

Back design; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10197.0

T-shirt color; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10196.0

[IZRSSS]

Here are the caps scheduled to be voted on (the 1st closure will obviously come in khaki). Please let me know if your cap isn't on this list.

Thank you!

[IZRSSS]

CAP ENTRY DEADLINE: 12/30/12

No exceptions guy's!

I need the following: A pic of the Cap & ID #, and the companies name & website. Or the companies website, and Caps ID#.

Marty

[lakeholme]

Do you really mean December 30?

[IZRSSS]

Do you really mean December 30?

No, I did not.......11/30/12

[IZRSSS]

Only one more obstacle...this should be the easy one....

We need to pull our resources together to get this thing to the finish line. Steve & Daniel have already addressed two of the 3 main concerns for CRG. Here's the 3rd and final issue; there are still concerns regarding the licensing of the word Camaro as it pertains to GM. Are there any members who can assist with this process? I am certain there are some heavy weights within the CRG community that can help.
 
Phillip   Does Rick Hendrick ring a bell? Or any other high profile guys that you think can help. Something in writing to Kurt from GM that frees CRG against Copyright infringements for the use of the word; "Camaro" so we can move forward with this after polling?

Or, is there anyone willing to take the lead on this…? Steve Shauger, Scott, any body???

[IZRSSS]

Here is the outline for the remainder of the "Official CRG Cap & T-shirt" process;

1. First Poll: Select T-shirt Design; Beginning----------------11/26/12, Ending---12/18/12
2. Second Poll: Select Cap Style; Beginning------------------12/01/12, Ending---12/18/12
3. Get GM’s approval for the use of the word; “Camaro”.
4. CRG’s approval (I have been reassured by the powers that be, GM’s approval for the use of the name; "Camaro" is all that remains).
5. Get price quote from Steve for T-shirt.
6. Get price quote from Daniel & Vendor for Cap.
7. List prices.
8. Payment & Shipment method: Will be discussed offline & results posted.
9. Determine the number of T-shirts & Caps members will purchase.

Thanks guys,

Marty


Links to the T-shirt POLLS;

Front View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10198.0

Back View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10197.0

T-shirt Color Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10196.0

[IZRSSS]

push forward...

Only one more obstacle...this should be the easy one....

We need to pull our resources together to get this thing to the finish line. Steve & Daniel have already addressed two of the 3 main concerns for CRG. Here's the 3rd and final issue; there are still concerns regarding the licensing of the word Camaro as it pertains to GM. Are there any members who can assist with this process? I am certain there are some heavy weights within the CRG community that can help.
 
Phillip    Does Rick Hendrick ring a bell? Or any other high profile guys that might be able to help. Something in writing to Kurt from GM that frees CRG against Copyright infringements for the use of the word; "Camaro" so we can move forward with this after polling?

Or, is there anyone willing to take the lead on this…? Steve Shauger, Scott, any body???

[IZRSSS]

Here are the caps scheduled to be voted on (the 1st closure will obviously come in khaki). Please let me know if your cap isn't on this list.

DEADLINE FOR YOUR ENTRY: 11/30/12

Thank you,

Marty

[tmodel66]

I had a member PM me. Marty when are you planning to have the secret decoder rings made?       Will they be sterling silver or gold?    " Because the people must know" Henry Jackson

[tom]

I thought the secret decoder rings were a secret !!!!
Do they realy decode cowl tags ?

[IZRSSS]

I had a member PM me. Marty when are you planning to have the secret decoder rings made?       Will they be sterling silver or gold?    " Because the people must know" Henry Jackson

I thought the secret decoder rings were a secret !!!!
Do they realy decode cowl tags ?

I believe you are referring to Polls which Kurt is much more capable of addressing than I. Any way here’s my version…The message board isn’t anything like that of the open forum. You have a very small window (literally) in which to enter a question. It is also extremely difficult to edit a question.  On the plus side, the edit feature is on for an extended period of time. So you see…no magic at all. That is simply the way CRG’s poll feature is set up. Try it sometime…it’ll make your hair stand on end!

[lakeholme]

Marty,

Sending you a PM....

[IZRSSS]

Got it Phillip, and Thanks!!!

[tmodel66]

I thought the secret decoder rings were a secret !!!!
Do they realy decode cowl tags ?

That's my understanding Tom.

[adjudimo]

I still like the look of a black cap with the red CRG logo on the front and sorta like #4 above, but I don't much care for the low profile front. They seem to look odd to me when I see them and the taller front would better display the CRG logo. I do like the red stripe on each side of #4's front bill and I like the bent/rounded bill, since it helps block out the sun when wearing. The stripes corresponds real nice with the red in the logo and even reminds me of stripe options for a 1st. Gen.
J.R.

[IZRSSS]

Hi J.R. - You might find what you are looking for in one of the links below. Be sure to get me the caps ID#.

http://www.ottocap.com/style.php?style_id=31-538

http://www.ottocap.com/  

http://www.cobracap.com/

If not, there are literally hundreds of sites on line. Just get me the caps ID info so I can locate it; Company name or website & cap ID#.

Thanks!

Marty

[Steve Shauger]

push forward...

Only one more obstacle...this should be the easy one....

We need to pull our resources together to get this thing to the finish line. Steve & Daniel have already addressed two of the 3 main concerns for CRG. Here's the 3rd and final issue; there are still concerns regarding the licensing of the word Camaro as it pertains to GM. Are there any members who can assist with this process? I am certain there are some heavy weights within the CRG community that can help.
 
Phillip    Does Rick Hendrick ring a bell? Or any other high profile guys that might be able to help. Something in writing to Kurt from GM that frees CRG against Copyright infringements for the use of the word; "Camaro" so we can move forward with this after polling?

Or, is there anyone willing to take the lead on this…? Steve Shauger, Scott, any body???

Marty, I will look into this, and see if I can get an answer.

[IZRSSS]

Steve - I really appreciate the help! 

[IZRSSS]

VOTING POLLS ARE OFFICIALLY OPEN!!!    

Front View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10198.0

Back View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10197.0

T-shirt Color Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10196.0

Please cast your vote at each one of the three (3) voting polls above.

" The results can only be viewed after you have cast your vote."


Thank you!

Marty

BTW: If you have questions about casting a vote, please send me a pm (personal message).
"Simply select a number or letter located at the top of the page that matches you choice. Then press "Submit Vote", and your done.

[adjudimo]

Marty, PM sent.   J.R.

[IZRSSS]

J.R. - Here are the 3 caps you are considering. Please let me know which one of these you would like to have included on the above list so that it can be voted on.

BTW- the information you provided was outstanding!

Thanks,

Marty

[IZRSSS]

VOTING POLLS ARE OFFICIALLY OPEN!!!    

Front View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10198.0

Back View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10197.0

T-shirt Color Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10196.0

PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE AT ALL 3 VOTING POLLS ABOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" The results can only be viewed after you have cast your vote."


Thank you!

Marty

BTW : If you have questions about casting a vote, please send me a pm (personal message).
"Simply select a number or letter located at the top of the page that matches you choice. Then press "Submit Vote", and your done.

[IZRSSS]

Gentleman - Some of you are not voting at all 3 polling places. Your vote will not count unless you do!  

Marty

[IZRSSS]

Below is the latest list of caps selected by CRG members to be voted on as the “Official CRG Cap”. If your cap is not part of this list…please get me the following information; Company name, website, & Cap ID# before the deadline below so I can include your cap on this list.
 
DEADLINE FOR YOUR CAP ENTRY: 11/30/12

Thanks guys!

Marty

[KurtS]

Prior to the polling, I specifically requested that GM licensing approval be obtained first.
"GM licensing approval is required due to the use of trademarked words. We won't approve without that so I think that getting GM approval should be #1 on the list. We should know that the efforts are going to happen before we invest more time and effort."
Per the request of the group, I'm going to suspend the polls until this approval is in-hand. Since the shirts wouldn't be made until spring, this should not impact the timing.
I'd also suggest using the time to agree what's going to be in the back-of-the-shirt poll.

The group also asked me to note two other things:
1) We reserve the veto power on any design using the CRG name and or logo.
2) The project must be revenue neutral (relative to the CRG) with full transparency of monies and operation, and we reserve the right to cease this venture if things aren't going well.

Thanks guys!

[BULLITT65]

question:
1. Wouldn't GM licensing approval be required to have a website called "CAMARO" Research Group ?
2. Wouldn't GM Licensing been needed to have made the hats the first time?
3. Does CRG have approval already from either of these 2 prior trademark issues?

I was just thinking maybe you have crossed this bridge already?

[IZRSSS]

Kurt- I respect your decision and I was wrong to move forward with this venture w/o your approval; my apologies. And like I mentioned before, I’m actually quite relieved. However, I would like the opportunity to tell my side of the story due to your money statement…

We fully intended to have full transparency of all monies and operation. In fact I personally forwarded this information to you along with a scheduled outline of which you responded; “No issue with any of this. Someone would have said something way earlier if there was. . Thanks for being the motivating force behind this!” This was after we were well into the on-line discussion.

Everything dealing with finances was going to be at cost. What's to hide?
 
As for #1 – The only reason I invested so much time & energy was because I thought this would allow members the opportunity to select a design to help promote CRG for all the help you've given us. And I was hopeful this could occur w/o inside influence. Obviously this wasn't or cannot be the case.

I hope at some point you will find some of the graphics I posted useful. But due to the circumstances above…this is as far as I'm willing to take this.
 
Again, my apologies.

Marty

[KurtS]

question:
1. Wouldn't GM licensing approval be required to have a website called "CAMARO" Research Group ?
2. Wouldn't GM Licensing been needed to have made the hats the first time?

Good questions.
1. No, we are not selling anything. Which makes me wonder if any company that uses it in their name, e.g. Camaro Specialty, has to?
2. I think at the time we made up 10 or 12 hats and almost noone knew about them. This time, it's a lot more public.

Kurt- I respect your decision and I was wrong to move forward with this venture w/o your approval; my apologies. And like I mentioned before, I’m actually quite relieved. However, I would like the opportunity to tell my side of the story due to your money statement…

We fully intended to have full transparency of all monies and operation. In fact I personally forwarded this information to you along with a scheduled outline of which you responded; “No issue with any of this. Someone would have said something way earlier if there was. . Thanks for being the motivating force behind this!” This was after we were well into the on-line discussion.

Everything dealing with finances was going to be at cost. What's to hide?
 
As for #1 – The only reason I invested so much time & energy was because I thought this would allow members the opportunity to select a design to help promote CRG for all the help you've given us. And I was hopeful this could occur w/o inside influence. Obviously this wasn't or cannot be the case.

I hope at some point you will find some of the graphics I posted useful. But due to the circumstances above…this is as far as I'm willing to take this.
 
Again, my apologies.
Marty

Marty,
The only issue is getting the GM approval first. That needs to be resolved before we get into the final details of the design. Without that, the whole discussion is moot.
I can't find the contact for licensing, so I'd suggest trying Customer Assistance - 1.800-222-1020.
The cost statement was due to a realization that the group doesn't want any of the complications of dealing with profits - both tax-wise and relative to obtaining GM licensing. The transparency is already there, so that's a non-issue. Sorry you took that as an insult.

[BULLITT65]

Marty you have done quite a bit here, If you want I can call the 800 number tomorrow and try to get the ball rolling on that part.

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - You just don’t get it do you. Why should GM’s approval for “Camaro” dictate whether or not we move forward with the vote? Wouldn’t it be nice to have that dilemma behind us? I don’t think you realize how much efforts involved and then to simply have someone delete all your hard work on a whim. Did you delete it because GM told you to or because certain individuals didn’t get their way?

I did everything within my power to keep the discovery as fair as I knew how. And I think I did a pretty darn good job of it. Again, this isn’t about the select few. This is about the members who frequent your site who without you have nothing. If they don’t have a chance to vote their designs I don’t want any part of this…period!

Move forward with the dad gum vote and worry about the design refinements latter.

[BULLITT65]

I feel your pain Marty, it doesn't seem like us voting on a potential design would be a trademark infringement. You are a hero member to me! =)
 I do not know who makes up "the group", and I am unaware what motivates them, but it seems like a measure of control may factor in. I hope Marty's passion, as well as everyone else who took the time add their input as to the design sees the fruit of their labor here.
 It seems like while all the designs are fresh in our heads, and all the time and effort were spent to get us this far, that a poll to narrow down the design of the shirt front and back, and color would make sense. I don't think any of us wants to read through 20 pages of this thread in a month or 2 just to get back up to speed on the design.

Kurt, as far as the concerns of "the group" regarding veto power of the design, you may have wanted to include a statement saying that the design choices that had been posted thus far were not objectionable to "the group" and that as a group you support a vote of the design based on the current choices. I am sure you didn't mean to offend anyone with your comments, but combined with your actions, it didn't seem like it reflected the best intentions of a "CRG Coordinator". 

I guess my question would be:
Is this website designed to be a collective effort of all the members working together for the greater good of the hobby, including voting democratically on such trivial things as a T-shirt design?
Or is the idea for this site to collect ideas and information from everyone, and then let a select few dictate which direction and which content will be posted or polled on?

[KurtS]

Sorry to offend. If you've been on other forums, you should know I take a very hands-off approach to the CRG forum. This is one of the first times I've intervened. But my first posts in this thread mentioned the GM approval. My second post reiterated it. In my conversations with Marty, I was clear it needed to happen first. And the CRG group was clear with me - they didn't want this to proceed without the GM approval.

None of the polls were deleted, they are just hidden.

And yes, noone has noted any issues with the design. They just wanted to be make sure the design properly represents the site. In retrospect, I should have not put that in and just told them to review the designs that have been presented.

The group: http://www.camaros.org/aboutcrg.shtml#Members

Instead of arguing, who has contacted GM?

[BULLITT65]

I volunteered myself to contact GM tomorrow, to get the ball rolling with that portion of this project. If I get far enough down the line to get approval on this, is there a particular email or fax number I should have them send over an approval to? if there are certain details I should get in writing please send me a personal message, or spell out what it is we are specifically looking for from them so I am requesting the right thing and not wasting anyones time.

Kurt thank you for your response, as well as any pertinent info that will aid me in my communication efforts with GM.

[IZRSSS]

Kurt – There is no question in my mind BULLITT65 would be a great choice to take the lead in acquiring GM’s licensing approval, but before he does; why is this being delegated to members other than the core group? You haven’t given anyone your reasoning for this. Wouldn't it be more advantages for the core group to take the lead in this? Please be as specific as you can.

BTW; I am pleased to read your comment with respect to Reply 304, group note...#1.

Marty

Thanks -A-

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - In addition; as for placing GM licensing at the top of the outline above; I think we’re setting BUILLITT65 up for failure. What is the first thing he’ll be asked by GM? My guess would be; “what is CRG’s intended use of the word “Camaro”?” What is B-65 going to say? “Well, we have these 10 or maybe 11 or 12 T-shirt design ideas we are currently working on. But we still don’t know”.

My reason for listing the Pollings 1 & 2 on that same list is because I wanted to make certain we had something definitive to show GM. My thoughts are without this information, GM will simply kick everything back, thus losing valuable time. This coming Spring doesn’t seem like it’s that far off. But you’d be surprised at how fast time fly’s. And I do not want to place undue pressure on Steve.

[Sauron327]

Trademark infringement and nominative use needs to be researched. If it's being suggested, or can be at all inferred that GM is endorsing and affiliating itself with CRG then there could be a problem. Same applies to any business or organization.

[Steve68]

I found the proper GM contact.  Will send email to her stating what we are wanting to do.  Stay tuned.

Steve

[BULLITT65]

is it someone at GM EMI ?

[Steve68]

65, check your pm.

Steve

[KurtS]

I had gotten as far as finding that it probably was EMI, but I referred B65 to the GM Heritage Center - they'll know a specific contact.

The license will be / should be general. It's not for a given design, but to be able to use trademarked images/words in a respectful design.
Phillip had found this, http://www.corvettesnccc.org/Minutes/gmtrademarks.pdf, which is useful as an outline.

>I'd also suggest using the time to agree what's going to be in the back-of-the-shirt poll.
To clarify, none of this is changing any of the design options. You can keep the poll the same if you want, but when the poll was started, there were several comments about what included as options. Specifically, Tom noted that 5 6 7 & 9 are almost the same.  All 4 might get a lot of votes, more together than other options, but none might win. Also, a blank back was mentioned.
If it would help, I could bring back the back-of-shirt poll so the design of the ballot could be discussed.

[IZRSSS]

I believe BULLITT65 has the issue with GM well in hand & I also believe Steve is assisting as well. Thanks for taking the lead on this Guy's!

Below are the 10 pics from Poll #2. I believe Tom's choice is #6; is this correct Tom?

And to be fair to those of you who voted for, or intended to vote for 5, 7, or 9; do you agree there should only be one choice? And should this choice be #6?

A blank back tee pic will be included in Poll #2.

Thanks Kurt!

[Steve68]

I have a special interest in making sure my wife receives permission from "GM licensing" to print the shirts if she is selected to print them.  I am certain she will want direct approval.  If approval is given to someone else then it probably will not be sufficient coverage for her.

Steve

[BULLITT65]

I think the approval we are seeking is to give CRG the permission to use Chevrolet Camaro to include all forms of the Trademark, emblems, logos, vehicle body designs/shapes. We would then contract with you and your wife. Does this sound right Kurt?

[IZRSSS]

Below is the latest list of caps selected by CRG members to be voted on as the “Official CRG Cap”. If your cap is not part of this list…please get me the following information for your cap; Company name, website, & Cap ID#.
 
Deadline for this information has been extended to coincide with the T-shirts. At this point ~1week.
 
Thanks,

Marty

[tom]

Of , 6 7 & 9 I prefer 9. That said only one of these should be in the poll it really doesn't matter which to me. I also don't understand the logic of having to vote for all 3 categories or my vote wont be counted. I almost never wear hats, so why should I have to vote for a hat or my vote for a shirt won't count? That's like if you don't vote for a mayor, your vote for president won't count.

[Steve68]

Tom

I think what Marty is indicating is the need to vote for a design for the front, back, and color of the shirt.  We need to know your preference for each in order to get the most popular combination.  The hat is separate from the 3 votes needed for the shirts.

Steve

[tmodel66]

 As for the shirt designs they were submitted by members. It's what was ask for not something made up out of the blue. Tom every vote counts. If you vote for a front and not a back that just means you don't care to vote on the back but your vote for the front still counts. And Steve already stated you don't have to vote nor buy a cap if you don't want one.

[adjudimo]

Thanks Marty for adding #6 cap to the poll. Just to let all other members know this hat was found at www.capwholesalers.com. The number for it is 6277. The reason I submitted this hat was due to all the many sizes available:

 Y-youth size 6 1/2" to 7"

 XS  6 5/8" to 7 1/8"

 S/M  6 3/4" to 7 1/4"

 L/XL  7 1/8" to 7 5/8"

 XL/XXL  7 3/8" to 8"

 PT  one for the ladies that is labeled PT for proper pony-tail cutout area and it comes in sizes 6 3/4" to 7 1/4"

Other than that they have alot more to look at and I also liked #6560 because it is a 5 panel cap ( no stitch or seam down the front middle ) and would look good with a patch sewn on.

Again, Thanks
J.R.

[KurtS]

I think the approval we are seeking is to give CRG the permission to use Chevrolet Camaro to include all forms of the Trademark, emblems, logos, vehicle body designs/shapes. We would then contract with you and your wife. Does this sound right Kurt?

Yup. If CRG has permission, then that means whoever does the work is covered. We're the ones responsible, not the print shop who fulfils the order.

[67rs/ss396]

I understand the concerns about the gm approval but why not just use the current site logo it's been used for years. We are simply wanting to put the same logo
on a shirt and hat.  (I also believe in the KISS method). My only request would be for XLT shirts. I'm not much of a hat person but i definitely like everything  about
the original hat that John has and would order at least 2.
 So come on guys I really want to see this happen so let's keep it simple and to the point. Point being I am a proud member of :

[IZRSSS]

There is no question in my mind everyone is on board with the keep it simple approach. But it’s equally important to keep it cost effective. The logo sizes in the pics above (back view's) raised concerns about the amount of ink required, as well as comfort issues. So a decision was made not to include them in the mix.

Here is a link to the latest designs. The top 3 are front views, and the pics below represent the back. The final design is pending a decision on the above request. Please let me know if you agree with these; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10214.0

[Steve68]

I think the approval we are seeking is to give CRG the permission to use Chevrolet Camaro to include all forms of the Trademark, emblems, logos, vehicle body designs/shapes. We would then contract with you and your wife. Does this sound right Kurt?

Yup. If CRG has permission, then that means whoever does the work is covered. We're the ones responsible, not the print shop who fulfils the order.

Ok.  We will go that route.  I just wanted to make sure as organizations and individuals who have approached my wife to print school logo's such as Virginia Tech on sweat shirts etc that she was required to have the license.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - Here is the final list of Cap styles & T-shirt designs. If there are no objections (by the end of the day today) this polling list is final. The polling will begin on 12/03/12 at the very latest, and run thru 12/23/12. Take as much time as is necessary to deal with the licensing issues, but we've laid on this egg long enough.
 
Thank you.

Marty

[IZRSSS]

T-shirt Front Views;

[IZRSSS]

T-shirt Back Views;

[KurtS]

Steve,
We'll make sure y'all are covered.
Is it a big deal to no print the back on a few shirts if people request it? There's the logistics of keeping track of those orders....

[Steve68]

Is it a big deal to no print the back on a few shirts if people request it? There's the logistics of keeping track of those orders....

No problem.  "Option delete" order.    When comes time to take orders we can use the order sheet Barb has to keep it all straight.

Steve

[IZRSSS]

Kurt – I will begin setting up the polls for your review. They will remain locked until you give the okay to open them. I think it would be wise to make the necessary revisions (if any) now rather than later & I don’t know of any other way of doing this than to display them on line. You will find them under "General Discission". I thought about "Test Run"...but I'd rather not do them twice.

I hope you agree.

Marty

[tom]

I'm thinking for simplicity sake, maybe this should be a one shot deal. Place your order by a set date if you want one.  If you miss the date, there might be an option to repeat the process next year.

Steve, would you wife be able to add a name (crg handle) to the front of the shirts for an extra fee, or would this complicate things too much?

[KurtS]

I moved all the polls to the Test Drive area for now. I assume the start dates are pending GM approval.

I think that titling the polls for what they are about would help people, ie instead of 1 of 3, say front design, etc.
Referencing the back design, http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10225.0:
It sounds like #8 is an option with any design (thanks Steve) so that should be changed.
General question about #1 and 2. Both say Camaro with 67-9 Archaeologists underneath it. Seems like that should reference the site somehow or the 67-9 Archaeologists part doesn't make much sense.

I can do any edits needed, btw.

[IZRSSS]

A. I assume the start dates are pending GM approval.

B. I think that titling the polls for what they are about would help people, ie instead of 1 of 3, say front design, etc.
C. Referencing the back design, http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10225.0:
It sounds like #8 is an option with any design (thanks Steve) so that should be changed.
D. General question about #1 and 2. Both say Camaro with 67-9 Archaeologists underneath it. Seems like that should reference the site somehow or the 67-9 Archaeologists part doesn't make much sense.

E. I can do any edits needed, btw.

A- Yup - hang on to them and post up when ready.

B- Whatever works best.

C- Delete #8?

D- Change "Camaro" to "Camaros.org"?

E- Nothing would please me more.  

[KurtS]

Edited.

D - Yup, could change "Camaro" to "Camaros.org" or change it to 67-69 Camaro Archaeologists
Personally, I like your suggestion better. Other ideas?

[IZRSSS]

I moved all the polls to the Test Drive area for now.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10226.0

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10225.0

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10224.0

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - I think we can come up with something better for the 2nd poll. #8 has me really confused.

[IZRSSS]

D - Yup, could change "Camaro" to "Camaros.org" or change it to 67-69 Camaro Archaeologists
Personally, I like your suggestion better. Other ideas?

How's this?

[IZRSSS]

Hey Daniel - Please let us know if this looks okay to you.

Thanks!

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10223.0

[tmodel66]

Looks good to me with the exception of the back of the flex fit being omitted. I don't think they have a hole in the back and I also think the rubbery/elastic headband will be all wrinkled up in a wad. Just so people will know what they are getting they need to see all the features. 

[BULLITT65]

Actually the flex fit hats I have, the headbands are not wrinkled up in a wad, they actually collapse neatly to fold inside the front like my other hats. I guess it depends on how you store your hat Daniel. Remember most guys fitted hat sizes are between 6 7/8- 7 1/2 or so. The band on the hat is "flexible" to account for this range. It is not like a rubberband and curls up into a ball when you take it off. Just wanted to clear this up.

[Steve68]

I'm thinking for simplicity sake, maybe this should be a one shot deal. Place your order by a set date if you want one.  If you miss the date, there might be an option to repeat the process next year.

Steve, would you wife be able to add a name (crg handle) to the front of the shirts for an extra fee, or would this complicate things too much?

Agree, once per year would work or us.  As for adding a CRG handle to the shirt......it really does make it more complicated and much more expensive too.

Steve

[tmodel66]

Actually the flex fit hats I have, the headbands are not wrinkled up in a wad, they actually collapse neatly to fold inside the front like my other hats. I guess it depends on how you store your hat Daniel. Remember most guys fitted hat sizes are between 6 7/8- 7 1/2 or so. The band on the hat is "flexible" to account for this range. It is not like a rubberband and curls up into a ball when you take it off. Just wanted to clear this up.

OK this sounds better. The only one I had was a big wad on the back that looked like a knot where the elastic was drawn up. I don't think I have saw one like you are talking about. Even better to post a picture if you can get one and let Marty add it.

[IZRSSS]

Daniel - I checked on line and I could not find a back view of the Flexfit cap. But I'd be happy to add it to the list if someone can get me a link.

Marty

[IZRSSS]

Referencing the back design, http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10225.0:
It sounds like #8 is an option with any design (thanks Steve) so that should be changed.

How about something like this for #8 in lieu of your edit? Or...your idea is fine.

[IZRSSS]

If you miss the date, there might be an option to repeat the process next year.

I disagree and here's why; there is one member in particular that stuck with us and supported us even though his ideas were shot down time and time again. His efforts alone lite a fire under all the right people when it counted; licensing issues (Thanks BULLITT65). Sure I think it would be great to revisit this process again in the future, but before we do; what about addressing other member's needs instead our own?

The main reason B65’s ideas were shot down is because they didn't appeal to the masses (us old guys). Well guess what; either we begin taking a serious look at the younger generation's ideas or CRG’s future could be in jeopardy. Instead of making a repeat of this same cap & t-shirt design next year I propose we begin a whole new design; a design that is spearheaded by the younger CRG members. My guess is some sort of a CRG Cap & T-shirt “Retro” design.
 
My point is; no reorders of any kind should be considered until this next phase is addressed.
 
Marty

[BULLITT65]

I nominate Marty to do the t-shirt and hat renderings and images next year...hahaha

How do you like that for appreciation?

I have enjoyed this website and its members from the first day I became a member. I am just 1 of over 4000 members, and look forward to next years ideas knowing that the trademark portion of this project won't be a speed bump.
 I think Steve and Marty have done a fine job for our site, and I think our final design of the shirt and hat will represent this website well, no matter which design is chosen.

[IZRSSS]

I nominate Marty to do the t-shirt and hat renderings and images next year...hahah

Nope - my wife has already threatened to throw me out of the house on this go-round!

How's this;

[tom]

If you miss the date, there might be an option to repeat the process next year.

I disagree and here's why; there is one member in particular that stuck with us and supported us even though his ideas were shot down time and time again. His efforts alone lite a fire under all the right people when it counted; licensing issues (Thanks BULLITT65). Sure I think it would be great to revisit this process again in the future, but before we do; what about addressing other member's needs instead our own?

The main reason B65’s ideas were shot down is because they didn't appeal to the masses (us old guys). Well guess what; either we begin taking a serious look at the younger generation's ideas or CRG’s future could be in jeopardy. Instead of making a repeat of this same cap & t-shirt design next year I propose we begin a whole new design; a design that is spearheaded by the younger CRG members. My guess is some sort of a CRG Cap & T-shirt “Retro” design.
 
My point is; no reorders of any kind should be considered until this next phase is addressed.
 
Marty

Marty that is what I was thinking. Not to repeat the design once a year, but to redesign once a year, or as appropriate. Orders must be placed by a specific date. If you miss the date, maybe there will be an opportunity next year, maybe not. Maybe the choice will be the same, maybe not. If you want one order it by the deadline. Then one run of hats and shirts can be paid for, processed, shipped, and then it is done.

Just one old guys opinion

[IZRSSS]

Tom – glad you’re on board with this same idea and yes; I must have misunderstood.
 
Your comments are precisely what will be discussed once a T-shirt & Cap are selected. This is part of the “Shipment & Payment” discussion I outlined.
 
Marty

[HOT3O2]

I have quite a few flex fit hats and the back doesn't look any different than the back of a fitted baseball cap. The whole head band in the hat is elastic. Here are some pics.

Rick

[IZRSSS]

Here is the final list of entries for the "Official CRG Cap" voting poll. Thanks to all who participated!

Marty

[tmodel66]

Rick that cap is different from what I had seen in a flex fit. These solid caps will be H O T and the mesh does breathe a little and not as hot.  As with any of the caps I was looking at the mesh back simply because I would wear it mostly in summer time at car shows and cruise-ins.

[HOT3O2]

Daniel, I know what your saying, Flex Fit has a lot of different style hats, I believe they even have one with the mesh material. The one I posted a pic of is a real lite material, not like the thick wool baseball caps. I wear caps a lot and it breaths pretty good and not too hot. But then again I live in San Diego, not down in the south east where it can get a little warm with a lot of humidity. When I ordered some hats for our scout troop a few years back I ordered 100 hats, 50 in one style and 50 in another and the price was the same. Maybe that could be checked into. The embroidering is all going to be the same. We'll see what Marty wants to do. But this is good that were are on here discussing it. What ever is decided on isn't going to be 100% agreed on but hopefully it will be close. 

[tmodel66]

Rick I guess I'm old and set in my ways so to speak and change is hard on us old timers.. The reason I'm reluctant to try the flex fit is because I've never worn one that I liked.  I'm just looking for something comfortable. The only reason I would prefer one cap over another is because all caps are not created equal. A cap is a cap is a cap is farthest from the truth as you know. I've worn the one example I put up and it's a good cap and wears great. The bill breaks easier than most and after you wear it a couple times you don't have to adjust it again. It'll hold it's form from one wear to the next. I'm sure we'll come up with something that will suit everybody and have a great looking cap to boot.

[IZRSSS]

No matter what our take is on certain hat’s; it couda’ been worse...

[tmodel66]

Now Marty ! I could swing Donald OK  but not the beer box. Too heavy 

[lakeholme]

I've seen a lot of those gray-haired visors at car shows...    For many of us it might "fit"... 

[KurtS]

A. I assume the start dates are pending GM approval.

A- Yup - hang on to them and post up when ready.

Though Marty says this, he has also recently PM'd me demanding that:
"If the polls are not started on Dec. 3 as I have stated in the “TEST RUNS”; I am not asking you, I am telling you to delete my CRG account."

Nothing has changed. GM approval is required first. Coercion doesn't change that.

[BULLITT65]

I am just curious, what is "the groups" reasoning in postponing the poll? It doesn't seem like it would harm anything to have us narrow down our selections on the hat and shirt while we are submitting for GM s permission.
How about if I got permission from GM for our website to run a poll about a possible shirt if we get permission?

Or we could do a new poll about wether everyone thinks we should do a poll on the shirts right now??
but I could see "the group" banning that poll on a poll as well.

This is just getting silly now....

[tom]

Sorry if I offend, but I'm with Kurt on this one. It has been made clear from the beginning that GM permission would be granted or there would be no product. It is the CRG core (them) that would take the heat from GM for any violation. Marty has already accomplished a ton getting to this point. I'm looking forward to a shirt like everyone else, but not if it creates legal problems that could shut down this incredable resource. Sorry if there are typos, I'm at work on my not so smart phone without spellcheck.   
Tom

[IZRSSS]

Though Marty says this, he has also recently PM'd me demanding that:
"If the polls are not started on Dec. 3 as I have stated in the “TEST RUNS”; I am not asking you, I am telling you to delete my CRG account."
Nothing has changed. GM approval is required first. Coercion doesn't change that.

Sorry if I offend, but I'm with Kurt on this one. It has been made clear from the beginning that GM permission would be granted or there would be no product. It is the CRG core (them) that would take the heat from GM for any violation. Marty has already accomplished a ton getting to this point. I'm looking forward to a shirt like everyone else, but not if it creates legal problems that could shut down this incredable resource. Sorry if there are typos, I'm at work on my not so smart phone without spellcheck.  
Tom

Kurt – First let me summarize what has transpired so everyone is up to speed; this thread began on Oct. 30. On Oct. 31 you posted this; “Anything with the word Camaro on it needs to be licenced. So GM needs to approve. And it would need to be done like Jim mentioned so that someone isn’t burdened with collecting money and distributing all the caps.”
What exactly did your first two sentences mean? Did they mean; this discussion is closed until GM licensing is secured? Did it mean; I will do my part to secure GM licensing? Or; Yes I’m on board with this venture as long as “none core members” do this work for me? {As for your last statement, this has already been done for you}.

Then on Nov. 17 you began posting four consecutive responses (replies; 207, 210, 226, & 232) in what appeared to be your full support for this venture, very misleading, BTW.
I then opened the polls on Nov. 26, following several advance notices of deadlines for T-shirt design ideas which everyone met and agreed to for the exception of one member who had a hissy fit over some of the “approved entries” after the polls were up and running. My guess is because his pic was not up front in the early voting. Shortly after this, you jumped in and shut the polls down (everything went downhill from there). You shutting down the polls would have been enough to upset anyone; especially after the amount of effort that went into this (from everyone). It certainly did me, so much so that I pm’d you at that exact moment asking you to delete my account. But you didn’t. Perhaps if you did we wouldn’t be having this conversation now.
 
Second; Since you’ve decided to make my pm quote public I think it only right you post the entire quote;
 
Kurt – I’m not sure what your reasons are for not starting the poll’s before the GM licensing issues are resolved. I think it has more to do with a power struggle than anything else. You know as well as I do GM licensing has nothing to do with conducting a poll. If the polls are not started on Dec. 3 as I have stated in the “TEST RUNS”; I am not asking you, I am telling you to delete my CRG account.

You still haven’t answered this question; what is the harm in conducting the poll even if you do not get GM licensing approval? If you are unsuccessful in acquiring GM Licensing approval at least we will know which Cap and Tee won.
 
And finally; there is a difference between what is right and what is wrong. And what you have done here is wrong.
 
There is no need to delete my account…I have my password.

Marty

BTW; As for GM shutting down a site for simply conducting a poll??? I’m not that naïve Tom!

[69pace]

Guys - In the spirit of the holiday season in which we should all strive to be kinder to others in our busy lives, I ask can we all just agree to disagree and walk away with dignity and grace intact.  I'm saddened to see any thread digress into a string of these back and forth posts. I deal with this stuff all the time at work, don't need it in my off time especially at this time of year and when so many in my area are still living sub human existences in the wake of Hurricane Sandy in smashed homes and lives. The negative energy wasted here in this thread could be better used in positive random acts of kindness.

Bottom line IMHO is that if someone really wants a baseball cap or a golf shirt there are plenty of places on-line that already have them with Camaro logos and script or create a custom one for themselves with no issues based on these already licensed products. There is a major baseball hat chain with stores in most malls across America that is more than eager to have your business.

So the back and forth is unnecessary. The point is mute since you folks who want hats and shirts do have other off forum options. Kurt has spoken and as owner of the site is entitled to do so. We all need to respect his wishes and continue to engage in healthy exchanges of the ideas, techniques, and interesting histories of the cars that are our passions. Camaro after all according to then Chevrolet president, Pete Estes, is “a name which is lithe and graceful…in keeping with our other car names beginning with ‘C.’ It suggests comradeship of good friends, as a personal car should be to its owner.”  

No offense or lashing implied or directed by me toward any individuals in this thread, just an observation by an old Owl hanging out in the barn.

Happy and Safe Holidays - whatever your particular tradition may be - to you and yours from me and mine.
Brian

[KurtS]

In a PM to you on November 24th, I clearly stated that GM approval needed to happen first.
"GM licensing approval is required due to the use of trademarked words. We won't approve without that so I think that getting GM approval should be #1 on the list."
Despite that, 2 days later you went ahead with the polls. And still want to, though GM approval is not in hand.

I'm done arguing about this.

[KurtS]

I locked this topic.
We'll move forward and do the polls when GM approval is received.