Author Topic: First Gen. Z/28 options  (Read 23712 times)

MyRed67

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 06:30:18 PM »
Back to the original question.  I think you're getting the question backwards.  The Conv. and the Coupe started with 2 different Model #'s,  you would be ordering the Z/28 option on a Convertible.
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Gramps69Z

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 07:05:44 PM »
Back to the original question.  I think you're getting the question backwards.  The Conv. and the Coupe started with 2 different Model #'s,  you would be ordering the Z/28 option on a Convertible.

The post had to due with the two options you could not order with a Z.   Someone said there were three with a convertible being the third.  I stated to him a convertible was not an option but a complete different car body or model.
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mopar346

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2011, 02:45:59 AM »
I think you could have convinced a dealer to do virtually anything you wanted once the car it the ground there, but not Chevrolet. There is distinct evidence that my son's RS had Rally Stripes and a cowl hood from at the least very early in life. Its a 12c car so hood is out of the question, plus no hole or cowl stuff just the hood. Now were they added before or after the sale?? I have spent my whole adult life in dealerships and I can tell you we will do just about anything for a customer that wants to pay for it. If oyu came in and wanted a Z/28 with an auto, 2 days later we would hand it to you. You wanted stripes, done. You wanted a ZL1 running gear and suspension on a RS convertible, sign right here.

Anything is possible, the probable is in question and the documentation doedsn't exist so far, but it wouldn't be factory. I heard a story maybe even on here, have no proof, I guy wanted a 75 T/A with a 427, a week and $2800 dollars later the car was delivered, I think the customer already owned it for 6 months or something.

sdkar

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2011, 07:48:04 AM »
What was special about Jean Claude Killy's 69 Camaro?

Paul68RS/Z28

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2011, 03:30:37 PM »
I think you could have convinced a dealer to do virtually anything you wanted once the car it the ground there, but not Chevrolet. There is distinct evidence that my son's RS had Rally Stripes and a cowl hood from at the least very early in life. Its a 12c car so hood is out of the question, plus no hole or cowl stuff just the hood. Now were they added before or after the sale?? I have spent my whole adult life in dealerships and I can tell you we will do just about anything for a customer that wants to pay for it. If oyu came in and wanted a Z/28 with an auto, 2 days later we would hand it to you. You wanted stripes, done. You wanted a ZL1 running gear and suspension on a RS convertible, sign right here.

Anything is possible, the probable is in question and the documentation doedsn't exist so far, but it wouldn't be factory. I heard a story maybe even on here, have no proof, I guy wanted a 75 T/A with a 427, a week and $2800 dollars later the car was delivered, I think the customer already owned it for 6 months or something.

When I was growing up in Morgantown, WV, Wilson's Chevrolet would do this at the request of the owner/buyer. Mr Wilson said if it was availalbe it could be done, maybe the factory wouldn't do it, but they would. An example I specifically remember was putting 12 bolt rears in 71-74 Camaros, they did it because the customer wanted it and paid for it. The dealer covered the issues/warrenty problems not the factory, although I think they massaged the paperwork to get things covered.

vtfb68

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 04:07:26 PM »
Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT
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Gramps69Z

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2011, 04:27:56 PM »
Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#COPO
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Jon Mello

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2011, 05:00:03 PM »
vtfb68, hopefully the above link answers your questions. Lots of good info there.

As for the Jean Claude Killy '69 Z/28, below are some pictures from Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro" book. Mr. Killy was the premier downhill slalom skier in the world back then and a very charismatic personality. Also paid by Chevrolet to promote its products. You can see if you look closely that the car has custom cloth upholstery. Also, the molded-in rear spoiler, the all-chrome rally wheels sans trim rings, the snow tires, ski rack, molded-in mud flaps with wheel well trim, unique stripes over the wheel openings, etc. I've never seen a color picture but it might have different color stripes other than black.

-Jon



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william

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2011, 05:08:45 PM »
Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Yes, several dealers did remove original engines from ZL-1 Camaros. Some of the cars were acquired just to obtain an engine for a racer. Original ZL-1 engines were VIN stamped; some have been re-united with the original body. Not all 69 are presently accounted for.
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9T4Z

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 04:53:41 PM »
I am wondering.  If I really really wanted a Z/28 convertible, or a Z/28 automatic or Z/28 with AC, could I have gotten one if I was willing to pay a premium or sign off that the AC would not be warranted.  I suppose the issue was never tested because if you really wanted these items on a sporty Camaro, you just got and SS instead.  However, they did build that Z/28 convertible for Pete Estes.  So, I had a time machine and walked into a dealership and plunked down the full sticker price and say an additional $500 for "convenience", could I have gotten a convertible Z/28? 

I'll bet if I went to Gibb Chevrolet at the right time I could have gotten him to change one of those 50 ZL1's to a convertible RS with JL8, power windows and factory AC.  Tell me I'm not the only one that would do that if we had a time machine. 

I can only think it never happened because no one really tried.   

OK!  So now you get back out of the time machine and you are the richest man on the planet.  You stole the idea for the 'desktop PC and You Tube'
You walk into the nearest Chev dealership and tell them you want a 'ZR1 Convertible'      They.... ::)
Then you tell them 'you don't care what it costs'                                                         They... :o  then .... ::)
OK.... NOW you tell them you'll pay them $50K just to try to put in the order.......They  ;D and take your money.
No such luck!   :'(

Behind you walks in a Gentleman, who is the President of the largest shareholder in General Motors..... (Mr. Obama)...
He is immediately recognized as such and asks if he could please order the same car you wanted....
Now they pick up the phone and start making calls...... maybe he could get one.

Times change but some things do not.   :D
Gary 9T4Z

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tom

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2011, 06:01:30 PM »
I'm sure you could find a dealer, order a ZL1 and a vert and pay the dealer to swap drive trains. Some dealers would pass on the chance, but someone would do it, or find you another shop to do it after delivery. It still wouldn't be a factory ZL1 vert. 
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o

william

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2011, 09:29:52 PM »
The fact of the matter is NO Dealer, Chevrolet or otherwise, was free to modify cars starting with the 1968 model year. As Chevrolet was aware that some of its dealers were also in the speed shop business it issued Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin 68-I-4 "DEALER MODIFICATION OF AIR POLLUTION EQUIPPED MOTOR VEHICLES" on November 23, 1967.  The bulletin concludes: "If the vehicle is modified prior to sale by the sustitution of components not offered by the manufacturer for the particular vehicle, the modification, if it affects emissions, may put the vehicle outside the protection of the Federal Certificates and subject dealers to penalties."

While it may be fun to sit around the campfire and speculate about ZL-1 convertibles it wasn't happening. Dealers are smart businessmen not about to risk the franchise to make a sale.

No individual, not even President Obama, can acquire a car not EPA certified. Until Chevrolet has EPA approval for a ZR-1 roadster he isn't getting one.

Secret Service, well maybe.


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sdkar

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2011, 07:57:20 PM »
I am willing to bet that if Gibbs told the factory to make one or two RS Convertibles of his 50 Camaro ZL1 order, they would have.  It would have made no difference to them as its not really any extra work.  Just pull up a 12467 body and drop in the ZL1 stuff.  As long as Mr. Gibbs was moving large amounts of product, was a good franchise customer, and paid his invoices, I think it could have been done.  Back then an owner of a dealer could call up GM and if he knew the right people, could get it done.  The fact that Gibbs was even able to get them to build the ZL1 to begin with proves that you could move mountains if you had the money and the influence back then.  I may be wrong, but if you look at the 67-69 Camaros, there seems to be a lot of exceptions to the rules that shows that special things could be and were done if someone was willing to pay and knew the process.   

You can't use the argument that it won't happen today, therefore it couldn't have been done in 1969.  If a bigshot Chevy dealer tried to get GM to build 50 ZL1 Camaros today, it just plain wouldn't happen.   I believe that ordering a Camaro today is very different than in 1969. 

Again, just my opinion...I may be wrong.  Of course, there is no way to prove this since my current attempts at building a time machine have failed.  In fact, I suppose I should just stop trying to build one now since if I was successful, the first thing I would do is visit myself and show me how to build one.  Since I have not seen myself from the future I guess I never figured it out.  Or maybe I have to figure it out first and then I will get a visit from myself.  OUCH...my head hurts.       

william

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2011, 10:41:29 PM »
I have heard a very different story about whose idea the ZL-1 Camaro was. Fred Gibb Chev was a small store in rural IL that probably mostly sold trucks. There is no reason to believe he had any influence with Chevy. Estes wanted a ZL-1 Camaro; he and Gibb were acquainted through racing. So Gibb Chev became the selling dealer and it could have bankrupted him. Couldn't pay for them, couldn't sell them. Chevy took them back.

Sure you could get Chevy to do stuff through the COPO process. But it had to go through Engineering for a feasibility assessment; then Accounting for costing. In the MCR article many years ago Don Yenko stated he did that to get Chevy to warranty the 427 cars, which he had to pay for. Then Chevy screwed him by letting other dealers order "Yenko" Camaros. Berger proposed some COPO cars that were refused by Chevy. Not as cut and dried as you think.

In my 36 years of 1st gen Camaros I know of very, very few examples of "exceptions to the rules that shows that special things could be and were done if someone was willing to pay and knew the process." Sure would like to hear more about all these special Camaros you speak of.   



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IZRSSS

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Re: First Gen. Z/28 options
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2011, 10:44:55 PM »
This is way off base, but did anyone check out the shot of Killy's Z's rear treads? Are those tractor tires? :-\

Oops...guess it was already pointed out in the description. :-\

Thanks John...popped this in here before it expired...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 11:04:07 PM by IZRSSS »