CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 21, 2014, 05:39:38 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
106428 Posts in 12407 Topics by 4785 Members
Latest Member: Bolaro 67 SS350
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  First Gen. Z/28 options
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All Print
Author Topic: First Gen. Z/28 options  (Read 7267 times)
MyRed67
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 715


SZZLN 67

michael-l.campbell@hotmail.com
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 01:30:18 PM »

Back to the original question.  I think you're getting the question backwards.  The Conv. and the Coupe started with 2 different Model #'s,  you would be ordering the Z/28 option on a Convertible.
Logged

1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
Original Engine   Z - Tribute
Mike C.    NW - Illinois
Gramps69Z
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 611


69 X33 D80


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 02:05:44 PM »

Back to the original question.  I think you're getting the question backwards.  The Conv. and the Coupe started with 2 different Model #'s,  you would be ordering the Z/28 option on a Convertible.

The post had to due with the two options you could not order with a Z.   Someone said there were three with a convertible being the third.  I stated to him a convertible was not an option but a complete different car body or model.
Logged

Captain John Wykoff
Destin Fire     11 months  to go

I'm sick and tired of mismanagement and disappointment. 
I'm a COWBOYS fan.
mopar346
Member
***
Posts: 315


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 09:45:59 PM »

I think you could have convinced a dealer to do virtually anything you wanted once the car it the ground there, but not Chevrolet. There is distinct evidence that my son's RS had Rally Stripes and a cowl hood from at the least very early in life. Its a 12c car so hood is out of the question, plus no hole or cowl stuff just the hood. Now were they added before or after the sale?? I have spent my whole adult life in dealerships and I can tell you we will do just about anything for a customer that wants to pay for it. If oyu came in and wanted a Z/28 with an auto, 2 days later we would hand it to you. You wanted stripes, done. You wanted a ZL1 running gear and suspension on a RS convertible, sign right here.

Anything is possible, the probable is in question and the documentation doedsn't exist so far, but it wouldn't be factory. I heard a story maybe even on here, have no proof, I guy wanted a 75 T/A with a 427, a week and $2800 dollars later the car was delivered, I think the customer already owned it for 6 months or something.
Logged
sdkar
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 654



View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2011, 02:48:04 AM »

What was special about Jean Claude Killy's 69 Camaro?
Logged
Paul68RS/Z28
Member
***
Posts: 71


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2011, 10:30:37 AM »

I think you could have convinced a dealer to do virtually anything you wanted once the car it the ground there, but not Chevrolet. There is distinct evidence that my son's RS had Rally Stripes and a cowl hood from at the least very early in life. Its a 12c car so hood is out of the question, plus no hole or cowl stuff just the hood. Now were they added before or after the sale?? I have spent my whole adult life in dealerships and I can tell you we will do just about anything for a customer that wants to pay for it. If oyu came in and wanted a Z/28 with an auto, 2 days later we would hand it to you. You wanted stripes, done. You wanted a ZL1 running gear and suspension on a RS convertible, sign right here.

Anything is possible, the probable is in question and the documentation doedsn't exist so far, but it wouldn't be factory. I heard a story maybe even on here, have no proof, I guy wanted a 75 T/A with a 427, a week and $2800 dollars later the car was delivered, I think the customer already owned it for 6 months or something.

When I was growing up in Morgantown, WV, Wilson's Chevrolet would do this at the request of the owner/buyer. Mr Wilson said if it was availalbe it could be done, maybe the factory wouldn't do it, but they would. An example I specifically remember was putting 12 bolt rears in 71-74 Camaros, they did it because the customer wanted it and paid for it. The dealer covered the issues/warrenty problems not the factory, although I think they massaged the paperwork to get things covered.
Logged
vtfb68
Member
***
Posts: 375


View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 11:07:26 AM »

Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT
Logged

05C LA RS/SS U2 712 L34 M21 BR
08E LA RS Y2 749 L30 M35
"In the pursuit of accuracy"
Gramps69Z
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 611


69 X33 D80


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2011, 11:27:56 AM »

Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#COPO
Logged

Captain John Wykoff
Destin Fire     11 months  to go

I'm sick and tired of mismanagement and disappointment. 
I'm a COWBOYS fan.
Jon Mello
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 3264



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2011, 12:00:03 PM »

vtfb68, hopefully the above link answers your questions. Lots of good info there.

As for the Jean Claude Killy '69 Z/28, below are some pictures from Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro" book. Mr. Killy was the premier downhill slalom skier in the world back then and a very charismatic personality. Also paid by Chevrolet to promote its products. You can see if you look closely that the car has custom cloth upholstery. Also, the molded-in rear spoiler, the all-chrome rally wheels sans trim rings, the snow tires, ski rack, molded-in mud flaps with wheel well trim, unique stripes over the wheel openings, etc. I've never seen a color picture but it might have different color stripes other than black.

-Jon



Logged

Jon Mello
CRG
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1172


View Profile Email
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2011, 12:08:45 PM »

Jon,
 ZL1 questions.
Did the dealer or the factory change motors to sell the cars? what did they do with the motors? A racer could have bought a ZL1 from Chevrolet with a VIN stamped on it? About how many were swapped?  Have any been reunited with it's birth car? What were the cars then sold as.. SS (396), COPO (427) or . . .??  Have all 69 bodies been accounted for?  Sorry for all the questions.... just thinking.
VT

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Yes, several dealers did remove original engines from ZL-1 Camaros. Some of the cars were acquired just to obtain an engine for a racer. Original ZL-1 engines were VIN stamped; some have been re-united with the original body. Not all 69 are presently accounted for.
Logged
9T4Z
Member
***
Posts: 239



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 11:53:41 AM »

I am wondering.  If I really really wanted a Z/28 convertible, or a Z/28 automatic or Z/28 with AC, could I have gotten one if I was willing to pay a premium or sign off that the AC would not be warranted.  I suppose the issue was never tested because if you really wanted these items on a sporty Camaro, you just got and SS instead.  However, they did build that Z/28 convertible for Pete Estes.  So, I had a time machine and walked into a dealership and plunked down the full sticker price and say an additional $500 for "convenience", could I have gotten a convertible Z/28? 

I'll bet if I went to Gibb Chevrolet at the right time I could have gotten him to change one of those 50 ZL1's to a convertible RS with JL8, power windows and factory AC.  Tell me I'm not the only one that would do that if we had a time machine. 

I can only think it never happened because no one really tried.   

OK!  So now you get back out of the time machine and you are the richest man on the planet.  You stole the idea for the 'desktop PC and You Tube'
You walk into the nearest Chev dealership and tell them you want a 'ZR1 Convertible'      They.... Roll Eyes
Then you tell them 'you don't care what it costs'                                                         They... Shocked  then .... Roll Eyes
OK.... NOW you tell them you'll pay them $50K just to try to put in the order.......They  Grin and take your money.
No such luck!   Cry

Behind you walks in a Gentleman, who is the President of the largest shareholder in General Motors..... (Mr. Obama)...
He is immediately recognized as such and asks if he could please order the same car you wanted....
Now they pick up the phone and start making calls...... maybe he could get one.

Times change but some things do not.   Cheesy
Logged

Gary 9T4Z

94Z rag blower 491 rwhp (now 505!)
69 Pace Car, 70RS,91Z,91RS
tom
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2011, 01:01:30 PM »

I'm sure you could find a dealer, order a ZL1 and a vert and pay the dealer to swap drive trains. Some dealers would pass on the chance, but someone would do it, or find you another shop to do it after delivery. It still wouldn't be a factory ZL1 vert. 
Logged

69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speedo
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1172


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2011, 04:29:52 PM »

The fact of the matter is NO Dealer, Chevrolet or otherwise, was free to modify cars starting with the 1968 model year. As Chevrolet was aware that some of its dealers were also in the speed shop business it issued Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin 68-I-4 "DEALER MODIFICATION OF AIR POLLUTION EQUIPPED MOTOR VEHICLES" on November 23, 1967.  The bulletin concludes: "If the vehicle is modified prior to sale by the sustitution of components not offered by the manufacturer for the particular vehicle, the modification, if it affects emissions, may put the vehicle outside the protection of the Federal Certificates and subject dealers to penalties."

While it may be fun to sit around the campfire and speculate about ZL-1 convertibles it wasn't happening. Dealers are smart businessmen not about to risk the franchise to make a sale.

No individual, not even President Obama, can acquire a car not EPA certified. Until Chevrolet has EPA approval for a ZR-1 roadster he isn't getting one.

Secret Service, well maybe.


Logged
sdkar
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 654



View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2011, 02:57:20 PM »

I am willing to bet that if Gibbs told the factory to make one or two RS Convertibles of his 50 Camaro ZL1 order, they would have.  It would have made no difference to them as its not really any extra work.  Just pull up a 12467 body and drop in the ZL1 stuff.  As long as Mr. Gibbs was moving large amounts of product, was a good franchise customer, and paid his invoices, I think it could have been done.  Back then an owner of a dealer could call up GM and if he knew the right people, could get it done.  The fact that Gibbs was even able to get them to build the ZL1 to begin with proves that you could move mountains if you had the money and the influence back then.  I may be wrong, but if you look at the 67-69 Camaros, there seems to be a lot of exceptions to the rules that shows that special things could be and were done if someone was willing to pay and knew the process.   

You can't use the argument that it won't happen today, therefore it couldn't have been done in 1969.  If a bigshot Chevy dealer tried to get GM to build 50 ZL1 Camaros today, it just plain wouldn't happen.   I believe that ordering a Camaro today is very different than in 1969. 

Again, just my opinion...I may be wrong.  Of course, there is no way to prove this since my current attempts at building a time machine have failed.  In fact, I suppose I should just stop trying to build one now since if I was successful, the first thing I would do is visit myself and show me how to build one.  Since I have not seen myself from the future I guess I never figured it out.  Or maybe I have to figure it out first and then I will get a visit from myself.  OUCH...my head hurts.       
Logged
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1172


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2011, 05:41:29 PM »

I have heard a very different story about whose idea the ZL-1 Camaro was. Fred Gibb Chev was a small store in rural IL that probably mostly sold trucks. There is no reason to believe he had any influence with Chevy. Estes wanted a ZL-1 Camaro; he and Gibb were acquainted through racing. So Gibb Chev became the selling dealer and it could have bankrupted him. Couldn't pay for them, couldn't sell them. Chevy took them back.

Sure you could get Chevy to do stuff through the COPO process. But it had to go through Engineering for a feasibility assessment; then Accounting for costing. In the MCR article many years ago Don Yenko stated he did that to get Chevy to warranty the 427 cars, which he had to pay for. Then Chevy screwed him by letting other dealers order "Yenko" Camaros. Berger proposed some COPO cars that were refused by Chevy. Not as cut and dried as you think.

In my 36 years of 1st gen Camaros I know of very, very few examples of "exceptions to the rules that shows that special things could be and were done if someone was willing to pay and knew the process." Sure would like to hear more about all these special Camaros you speak of.   



Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2011, 05:44:55 PM »

This is way off base, but did anyone check out the shot of Killy's Z's rear treads? Are those tractor tires? Undecided

Oops...guess it was already pointed out in the description. Undecided

Thanks John...popped this in here before it expired...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 06:04:07 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.097 seconds with 18 queries.