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Author Topic: First Gen. Z/28 options  (Read 7095 times)
Gramps69Z
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2011, 05:48:54 PM »

This is way off base, but did anyone check out the shot of Claude's Z's rear treads? Are those tractor tires? Undecided




vtfb68, hopefully the above link answers your questions. Lots of good info there.

As for the Jean Claude Killy '69 Z/28, below are some pictures from Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro" book. Mr. Killy was the premier downhill slalom skier in the world back then and a very charismatic personality. Also paid by Chevrolet to promote its products. You can see if you look closely that the car has custom cloth upholstery. Also, the molded-in rear spoiler, the all-chrome rally wheels sans trim rings, the snow tires, ski rack, molded-in mud flaps with wheel well trim, unique stripes over the wheel openings, etc. I've never seen a color picture but it might have different color stripes other than black.

-Jon

 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 06:11:28 PM by WYKOFF69Z » Logged

Captain John Wykoff
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Larry
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2011, 06:07:18 PM »

If you want to know the whole truth about Fred Gibb Chevrolet check out this web site. Being from Illinois, I was at his dealership back in 1969 and saw the ZL1's that he had. There also was a ZL1 for sale at Huffman Chevrolet in Farmington, Illinois where I bought my 1968 Z28.
 http://www.fredgibb.com/gibb_history.html
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william
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2011, 08:11:22 PM »

Huffmans had 2 ZL-1s they ordered: #66 N644311 #67 N644314. #66 still exists.

The Gibb.com story is nice but the reality of it is the ZL-1s were a poor, costly business decision. The body numbers indicate the cars were ordered early December 1968 while bud Pete Estes was General Manager of Chevrolet. In the December 1989 Car Craft interview Gibb stated the cars were supposed to list for about $4900. Ultimately they were 50% higher and impossible to sell. If they were financed through GMAC and he never paid them, he actually couldn't sell them. GMAC probably had a rep there to ensure every car sold was paid off first. That's why many were sent to other dealers or returned to Chevy. I know the full history of our project, ZL-1 #4. It sat at Gibbs from March 11, 1969 until it was returned to Norwood, Ohio May 24, 1969. It ended up at Hauser Chev, Bethlehem PA early August '69. They ran a newspaper ad asking $6355; no sale. It ended up on the strip for the '70 NHRA season. By Spring '71 it was on the used car lot at Hauser with an iron 402 and sold for about $2895. Probably every dealer that got involved with ZL-1s back then regretted it.
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Larry
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2011, 11:23:41 PM »

I hope I did not offend anyone by saying that this web site was the whole truth about Fred Gibb Chevrolet. I used very poor wording. I just think this web site has a lot of information about Fred Gibb that a lot of forum readers might not know.
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william
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2011, 08:10:23 AM »

The Gibb site is fine, just not very informative. He was interviewed a few times in the '80s and made some interesting statements. He said they sold "a few" '69 COPO Camaros and Chevelles and did quite a few 427 conversions of L78 cars starting in '68. He never mentioned Pete Estes but was good friends with Vince Piggins, the executive responsiible for the creation of the Z/28. Piggins likely engineered the
ZL-1 Camaro program but Estes name is on the broadcast sheets for #1 & #2. The owner of #4 at the time, also a former Chevrolet dealer, visited with him when we finished the car. Fred was kind enough to sign a document for it. He said that he tried to order the ZL-1s heater delete but it wasn't allowed. Ultimately he sold very few of the cars. Most were sent back to the Norwood Camaro plant, some others DX'd to other Chevy dealers. Dale Chev here in Waukesha WI received #7 and #49.

All of the Gibb Chevrolet dealership paperwork still exists.

The ZL-1s made Fred Gibb a Chevy legend but also caused him much grief, never said a word about it.
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sdkar
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2011, 12:45:25 PM »

I guess my observation is that since Fred Gibb ordered so many ZL-1's, without any buyers on hand, had trouble selling them and many were sent back due to the inability to move them, that surely, If I walked in his dealership at just the right time, stated I wanted one of his 50 ZL-1's, only I wanted to add an RS front end, deluxe interior, power windows, heck, maybe even a convertible and JL8 along with some vigilante light monitoring system, throw in the rear tire traction control squirters as well, and I plunked down the full purchase price on his desk, I strongly feel there is a highly likely chance I would have gotten what I wanted.  I mean, if Mr. Gibb was willing to take a chance on 50 Camaros that may not sell well, surely he would attempt to make a definate sale if all he had to do was check off a few extra option boxes on his order.  After all Mr. Gibb was a business man and GM wanted to sell Camaros.  If they were willing to take a chance and put an all aluminum race motor in a stripped down Camaro and "HOPE" someone will buy it, then it is highly likely they would have gone just a little bit further if someone dropped $8,000 in front of them. 

They had paint deletes and special colors and striping requests that were probably more inconvenient to the factory than simply putting a ZL-1 motor in a nicely optioned convertible instead of a plain jane coupe.  I wish I could test my theory, but I can't.  However, I bet it is more likely than not it could have been done.  Again, I could be wrong. 

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tom
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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2011, 12:51:12 PM »

Since they couldn't sell the ZL1's already on hand, it would have been difficult to place another order for an even more expensive version. Just my opinion.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2011, 01:13:27 PM »

<<I mean, if Mr. Gibb was willing to take a chance on 50 Camaros that may not sell well, surely he would attempt to make a definate sale if all he had to do was check off a few extra option boxes on his order.>>

He ordered them after being assured that the package would cost about $1,000, which would bring the car in at about $4200.00. When they came off the truck, the option (and his invoices) for the package were priced at $4,160.00, which brought the bottom line price to $7,300.00. You can bet your bottom dollar that if he knew going in that they'd cost $3,160.00 more than he was told, he never would have ordered them at all.
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sdkar
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« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2011, 02:15:54 PM »

I am sure many of us would love to go back in time and help poor Mr. Gibb out and take those monstrosities off his hands.  I bet most of us would even be willing to pay full sticker price for them. 

I did hear that as late as 1971, there were still ZL-1 on the showroom floors until GM finally came across with some rebate money to the dealers to get them sold. 

I suppose if you take into consideration that there was a new body style (after all, who would buy a 2004 Mustang when the 2005 body style came out?   Not many i bet), These cars were bare bones in options, were priced well over that of a fully decked out SS396 or Z28, and were probably not all that easy to drive.  If only people knew.  I would bet that if I bought one brand new, put it in air conditioned storage and didn't put a single mile on it...what do you guys think it would be worth?

How many of the 69 ZL-1 are accounted for?  (both engines and bodies).  In other workds, are there 40 engines known to still exist but only 25 bodies? What is the lowest mileaged one or best survivor?  Is it possible that somewhere in the hills of Tennessee could be a stripped out no optioned ZL-1 that is just sitting there waiting for someone in the know to check its VIN?  Are the ones that are totaled or crushed documented?  Do we have these ZL-1 documented somewhere unlike the rest of the 69's.  VINS, options, colors, etc.  Finally, what ever happened to the black and gold RS I saw pictured years ago as a ZL-1 possible offering?

Does anyone have a book out that is equal to what Crispino, Hooper or Jerry MacNeish have written?   

Boy I ask a lot of questions, but I can't think I'm the only one that would love to know this.  I would love to know how many ZL-1 are lost and have the VIN list if it exists so I can start my cross country quest for the Holy Grail, like King Arthur's knights.

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tmodel66
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« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2011, 05:08:44 PM »





How many of the 69 ZL-1 are accounted for?  (both engines and bodies).  In other workds, are there 40 engines known to still exist but only 25 bodies? What is the lowest mileaged one or best survivor?  Is it possible that somewhere in the hills of Tennessee could be a stripped out no optioned ZL-1 that is just sitting there waiting for someone in the know to check its VIN?  Are the ones that are totaled or crushed documented?  Do we have these ZL-1 documented somewhere unlike the rest of the 69's.  VINS, options, colors, etc. 






Just by chance have you looked at Jerry MacNeish 4th Edition. Page 231/232 has some good information you might be interested in.
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Daniel  
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sdkar
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« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2011, 05:30:07 PM »

Nope, I just have the 3rd ed.

If this page helps answer some of my questions, would you be able to scan it and send it?

Thanks,

Steve
sdkar@bellsouth.net

 
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tmodel66
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« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2011, 06:28:25 PM »

I would do it in a New York minute but my printer went kaput last week and I ain't got it fixed yet. Angry
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Daniel  
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Boston14
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« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2011, 08:14:43 PM »

Steve  .................... just sent you an email
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boston14

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william
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« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2011, 10:38:52 AM »

Not only have I repeatedly run missing ZL-1 VIN many times I can think of a few others who continue to check on them. Chances of finding one via VIN search is near zero. One seems to turn up every few years, usually as the skeletal remains of a former race car. And don't buy one in Canada...
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