VN built 69 Camaro with a Firebird VIN on the transmission?

[RSSSFanatic]

OK, I got a bit of a surprise when I removed the Muncie M-20 from my Van Nuys built L35 car to install a clutch.  Car is a 10A build, engine VIN checks out, but the Muncie has a completely weird looking VIN stamped on it.  It is a faint stamping and pretty hard to read the last 2 digits, but it appears to be "76L103238".  It has a date stamp of P9P10, which seems to fall into the acceptable range of when the car was built.  I have owned this car for 25 years, it has a very solid set of documents including the build sheet, warranty transfer plate, a lot of old receipts, and a very extensive log book that was kept by the second owner (bought it in 1972) that lists every fuel stop and maintenance entry all the way up until the early 80's.  To my knowledge, I am the third registered owner of the car, although it passed through the hands of a few collectors before I ended up with it.

A couple of other idiosyncrasies are that it has a jack sticker for a Firebird under the decklid, and a Firebird deluxe rear seat bottom.

I am aware that they were also building Firebirds on this line at the same time.  Being an early build, it sounds like maybe they were having some supply chain issues or some other confusion.  The second owner documents one clutch replacement while he owned the car, done at a GM dealership.  It seems like the odds that someone would swap in a Firebird M-20 that happened to be built at Van Nuys with that date code would be kind of slim, and based on what else I know about the car, I feel fairly confident that it left the factory this way.  Can anybody provide any insight as to how this could have been botched like this?  I'm sure some will argue that someone swapped that transmission into the car somewhere along the way, but I would be very surprised if this was the case, although I guess it may be possible.

Looking forward to hearing some comments.  Anyone ever seen anything like this?

[bertfam]

Can you post pictures of the partial VIN and the suffix? The partial VIN "76Lxxx" isn't normal. It should be 19Lxxxx for a Camaro, or 29Lxxx for a Firebird.

The chances of a Firebird transmission being installed in a Camaro at the factory is slim at best. The engine and transmission were gang stamped as an assembled unit (in other words, the transmission was mated to the engine, then both were stamped), so the only way to get a Firebird Muncie in a Camaro would be to also have a Firebird ENGINE in a Camaro!

From John's FIRST-GENERATION CAMARO ASSENBLY PROCESS:

In the engine schedule area, the operator grabbed the next Broadcast Copy from the printer, verified the sequence number, noted the engine code required for that car, and moved an air-powered overhead hoist on traveling bridge rails over the correct engine rack. The specified engine was hoisted out of the rack and transferred to the next hook on the overhead engine dress line conveyor, where the throwout bearing (on manuals) was greased and installed, along with the clutch fork boot. Another operator on the other side of the line repeated the process with the specified transmission, which was then installed and bolted to the engine; on automatics, an air tool was used to rotate the flexplate, and the converter bolts were driven, followed by the lower cover.

The VIN derivative numbers were stamped in the next operation on both the engine pad and the transmission, using a gang-stamp holder and a hammer.

Ed

[bcmiller]

OK, I got a bit of a surprise when I removed the Muncie M-20 from my Van Nuys built L35 car to install a clutch.  Car is a 10A build, engine VIN checks out, but the Muncie has a completely weird looking VIN stamped on it.  It is a faint stamping and pretty hard to read the last 2 digits, but it appears to be "76L103238".  It has a date stamp of P9P10, which seems to fall into the acceptable range of when the car was built.  I have owned this car for 25 years, it has a very solid set of documents including the build sheet, warranty transfer plate, a lot of old receipts, and a very extensive log book that was kept by the second owner (bought it in 1972) that lists every fuel stop and maintenance entry all the way up until the early 80's.  To my knowledge, I am the third registered owner of the car, although it passed through the hands of a few collectors before I ended up with it.

A couple of other idiosyncrasies are that it has a jack sticker for a Firebird under the decklid, and a Firebird deluxe rear seat bottom.

I am aware that they were also building Firebirds on this line at the same time.  Being an early build, it sounds like maybe they were having some supply chain issues or some other confusion.  The second owner documents one clutch replacement while he owned the car, done at a GM dealership.  It seems like the odds that someone would swap in a Firebird M-20 that happened to be built at Van Nuys with that date code would be kind of slim, and based on what else I know about the car, I feel fairly confident that it left the factory this way.  Can anybody provide any insight as to how this could have been botched like this?  I'm sure some will argue that someone swapped that transmission into the car somewhere along the way, but I would be very surprised if this was the case, although I guess it may be possible.

Looking forward to hearing some comments.  Anyone ever seen anything like this?

Never seen one stamped like that. You have a PM.

[jdv69z]

Did they build Firebirds at Van Nuys? I thought it was a Norwood thing.

[bertfam]

Did they build Firebirds at Van Nuys?

Norwood started building Firebirds in April of 1969, but Van Nuys built them in 1968 and 1969. As a matter of fact, the Van Nuys plant assembled the very first Trans-Am! (see below)

Van Nuys also built Chevrolet full size cars. They were a busy bunch of surfer dudes!!

Ed

[RSSSFanatic]

Well, the surfer dudes who built my car must have been smoking something, because they put the wrong seat and decklid sticker on it too.  There are a couple of pretty experienced Camaro collectors who know the car.  I am not saying that somewhere along the way someone didn't swap some things out.  But it would come as quite a surprise to me, considering the car's history.

[x66 714]

Well, the surfer dudes who built my car must have been smoking something, because they put the wrong seat and decklid sticker on it too.  There are a couple of pretty experienced Camaro collectors who know the car.  I am not saying that somewhere along the way someone didn't swap some things out.  But it would come as quite a surprise to me, considering the car's history.

You should post some pictures for us....Joe

[RSSSFanatic]

I am in communication with one of the long-time CRG members and he is going to forward the pictures of the VIN on to a couple of Camaro experts to evaluate it.  I will post them when I pull them off my phone.  I'm not great with posting them straight off my phone to the site.  Once we figure out what happened (if), I'll post the pictures up for all to see.  It truly is an odd thing.  I always thought the trunk sticker was strange, and I am 100% sure that it's the decklid that came on the car.

[69Z28-RS]

100% means CERTAINTY...    Were you there in the factory when they made this monstumental screwup???

[bertfam]

I never said it was impossible, only slim. There's one scenario where this could happen:

Line workers mate the engine and transmission together and the incorrect Firebird partial VIN is stamped on the transmission. The mistake is discovered and the line worker grabs the CORRECT  gang stamp and stamps the correct Camaro partial VIN on the engine pad.

However, in this scenario, the mistake would have (SHOULD HAVE) been fixed by X'ing out the incorrect Firebird partial VIN and restamping the correct Camaro partial VIN on the transmission. Or at the very least, stamping the correct Camaro partial VIN on the transmission.

Do you also have the correct CAMARO partial VIN stamp on the transmission or just the incorrect Firebird?

What "decklid sticker" are you referring to? Posi sticker? Jacking sticker?

And there have been other Camaros that have been rumored to have Firebird seats, but nothing firm.

Ed

[bcmiller]

I received permission to post the transmission stamps.

This is quite puzzling but it probably is not the original one for this car. The 6 digit sequence number could fit for a Firebird but the 76 at the start is just odd. Never seen anything like that before.

Others may have a different opinion.

[bcmiller]

Transmission side cover is 3950306 - correct for 69 M20.
Metal tag is 3950356 - correct for 69 M20.
Tail housing is 3857584 - correct for 69 M20. I know Chevrolet used this for the passenger side speedometer.  Some Pontiacs used the 429 tail housing.

[cook_dw]

A 6 or upside down 9..?.

My guess is someone was little hung over and grabbed a 7 instead of a 2 and had the 9 upside down..  Only thing that makes sense to me.  Yes I am grasping at straws.  Also no A, B or C.

[RSSSFanatic]

Ed, I was referring to the sticker on the underside of the trunk lid for the jack instructions.  Mine has a Firebird on it.  I believe it to be original.  I also have deluxe comfortweave, and the rear seat bottom has the larger Firebird pattern rather than Camaro.

I have read several articles about the VN plant that they had a lot of quality control and employee morale problems.  If the idiosyncracies on this car are in fact as it rolled off the line, then I think that is supported.

I know I probably sound like an idiot saying that I believe that these things are original to the car, but the documentation and background of the car support it.  Maybe I was sold a bill of goods when I bought the car from a local collector, but he has long handled a lot of high end Chevy's and I think he has a pretty good reputation.  But I am not going to name names until I have a little bit better idea what's going on here.

[bcmiller]

The transmission may be fine.

I can’t for sure say that it’s golden though.

Could just be a factory screw up.