Author Topic: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes  (Read 4883 times)

john302

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
My thoughts are early cars are phosphated and later cars are painted.Grey phosphated looks way better/but not as durable.Plus paint/powder coating hides rust pits ect.. Powder coating doesn't belong anywhere on a 69 Camaro. All powder coating is a cheap cover up.

tmodel66

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 02:30:36 AM »
John you got a grin out of me. Cover up? Maybe ..... Cheap?  HELL NO !!!!!
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

Hans L

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 02:49:50 PM »
My thoughts are early cars are phosphated and later cars are painted.Grey phosphated looks way better/but not as durable.Plus paint/powder coating hides rust pits ect.. Powder coating doesn't belong anywhere on a 69 Camaro. All powder coating is a cheap cover up.

Or multiple vendors were used and GM's supplier spec was vague with regarding to finish requirement leaving it to the vendor to decide.   Also, totally agree with Power Coating or POR 15 for that matter for back to stock restorations as a no-no.   I'm even painting my '69 Z in Lacquer!
http://www.littooy.com/hans/
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JohnZ

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 04:41:46 PM »
<<Or multiple vendors were used and GM's supplier spec was vague with regarding to finish requirement leaving it to the vendor to decide.>>

GM pulley finish specs were pretty comprehensive, and didn't leave much to the supplier; here's a typical 1967 Chevrolet finish spec from a pulley drawing.
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69Z28-RS

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 08:19:55 PM »
Thanks John,

It's probably safe to assume that this spec didn't change much between '67 and '69...?   :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

tmodel66

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 11:55:35 AM »
Hans L  You cannot put POR-15 and powder coating in the same category. Complete different animals and totally opposite form of coating. 
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

JohnZ

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 02:08:51 PM »
Thanks John,

It's probably safe to assume that this spec didn't change much between '67 and '69...?   :)

It might have, but I doubt it; however, not all pulleys were released by the same engineer, and they may have had different concerns relative to appearance or corrosion protection. Without looking at each pulley drawing, you can't tell.
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69Z28-RS

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 02:41:35 PM »
you're right John.. :)
- experienced engineers generally begin with past designs, look at what's been done before, and verify that it's good w/o problems and doesn't need changes
- 'younger', less experienced engineers sometimes like to ignore past designs and history, and do everything 'anew'... 
:)

That said, do you have similar GM requirements spec information for '69 pulleys, in particular the smog pulley?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

william

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 05:45:31 PM »
Engineers do not always have the last word. Those who work in sourcing will tell you there is continual pressure to reduce costs. Generally mentioned in your goals for the year. Nothing is sacred in that endeavor. If you have to go back to engineering and have some spec changed that does not affect form, fit or function [like plating] that will save 10 per part so be it.

The '458' AIR pulley went from phosphate with a hard-stamp part number to painted with an ink-stamped part number. Maybe the source changed; maybe some buyer at Chevy gave the supplier a new cost target. Meet it or lose the business.

Today there are entire departments that determine what parts and tooling should cost before a supplier sees a drawing. Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

jdv69z

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 07:01:30 PM »
Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.
Jimmy V.

JohnZ

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 06:53:15 PM »
Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.

Plenty - it's always been a cut-throat business, but today it's more than just cost - suppliers have to meet quality and delivery goals as well, and continuous improvement in all categories is expected.

"One of the best ways to become a millionaire supplier is to start as a billionaire supplier."  :-)
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69Z28freak

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 07:01:53 PM »
Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.

Plenty - it's always been a cut-throat business, but today it's more than just cost - suppliers have to meet quality and delivery goals as well, and continuous improvement in all categories is expected.

"One of the best ways to become a millionaire supplier is to start as a billionaire supplier."  :-)

Nice one John.
Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro

william

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 08:02:15 PM »
I have a book about Honda and how they transitioned from making motorcycles to cars. They interviewed a supplier that had shipped 316,000 pc of a particular part to the Ohio plant. Of those 44 were rejected. That's .0001%. Honda graded their quality "satisfactory, not outstanding."

The book was written in 1988. Probably not good enough today.


69Z28-RS

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Re: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2013, 10:21:40 PM »
That was back in the 'Quality Circle' days... :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan