CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 20, 2014, 01:07:04 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
105545 Posts in 12323 Topics by 4751 Members
Latest Member: Blakep54
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Originality
| | |-+  69 Z 302 pulley finishes
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print
Author Topic: 69 Z 302 pulley finishes  (Read 3569 times)
john302
Member
***
Posts: 186


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 04:05:06 PM »

My thoughts are early cars are phosphated and later cars are painted.Grey phosphated looks way better/but not as durable.Plus paint/powder coating hides rust pits ect.. Powder coating doesn't belong anywhere on a 69 Camaro. All powder coating is a cheap cover up.
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 09:30:36 PM »

John you got a grin out of me. Cover up? Maybe ..... Cheap?  HELL NO !!!!!
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Hans L
Member
***
Posts: 141


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 09:49:50 AM »

My thoughts are early cars are phosphated and later cars are painted.Grey phosphated looks way better/but not as durable.Plus paint/powder coating hides rust pits ect.. Powder coating doesn't belong anywhere on a 69 Camaro. All powder coating is a cheap cover up.

Or multiple vendors were used and GM's supplier spec was vague with regarding to finish requirement leaving it to the vendor to decide.   Also, totally agree with Power Coating or POR 15 for that matter for back to stock restorations as a no-no.   I'm even painting my '69 Z in Lacquer!
Logged

http://www.littooy.com/hans/
'69 Camaro RS Z/28 Van Nuys Built
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4121


View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 11:41:46 AM »

<<Or multiple vendors were used and GM's supplier spec was vague with regarding to finish requirement leaving it to the vendor to decide.>>

GM pulley finish specs were pretty comprehensive, and didn't leave much to the supplier; here's a typical 1967 Chevrolet finish spec from a pulley drawing.
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2451


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 03:19:55 PM »

Thanks John,

It's probably safe to assume that this spec didn't change much between '67 and '69...?   Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 06:55:35 AM »

Hans L  You cannot put POR-15 and powder coating in the same category. Complete different animals and totally opposite form of coating. 
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4121


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 09:08:51 AM »

Thanks John,

It's probably safe to assume that this spec didn't change much between '67 and '69...?   Smiley

It might have, but I doubt it; however, not all pulleys were released by the same engineer, and they may have had different concerns relative to appearance or corrosion protection. Without looking at each pulley drawing, you can't tell.
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2451


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 09:41:35 AM »

you're right John.. Smiley
- experienced engineers generally begin with past designs, look at what's been done before, and verify that it's good w/o problems and doesn't need changes
- 'younger', less experienced engineers sometimes like to ignore past designs and history, and do everything 'anew'... 
Smiley

That said, do you have similar GM requirements spec information for '69 pulleys, in particular the smog pulley?
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1169


View Profile Email
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 12:45:31 PM »

Engineers do not always have the last word. Those who work in sourcing will tell you there is continual pressure to reduce costs. Generally mentioned in your goals for the year. Nothing is sacred in that endeavor. If you have to go back to engineering and have some spec changed that does not affect form, fit or function [like plating] that will save 10 per part so be it.

The '458' AIR pulley went from phosphate with a hard-stamp part number to painted with an ink-stamped part number. Maybe the source changed; maybe some buyer at Chevy gave the supplier a new cost target. Meet it or lose the business.

Today there are entire departments that determine what parts and tooling should cost before a supplier sees a drawing. Very tough dealing with the auto industry.
Logged
jdv69z
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 648


69 RS Z/28 52E


View Profile Email
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 02:01:30 PM »

Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.
Logged

Jimmy V.
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4121


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 01:53:15 PM »

Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.

Plenty - it's always been a cut-throat business, but today it's more than just cost - suppliers have to meet quality and delivery goals as well, and continuous improvement in all categories is expected.

"One of the best ways to become a millionaire supplier is to start as a billionaire supplier."  :-)
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 02:01:53 PM »

Very tough dealing with the auto industry.

Wonder how many went out of business trying to be the low cost supplier to the auto industry.

Plenty - it's always been a cut-throat business, but today it's more than just cost - suppliers have to meet quality and delivery goals as well, and continuous improvement in all categories is expected.

"One of the best ways to become a millionaire supplier is to start as a billionaire supplier."  :-)

Nice one John.
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1169


View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 03:02:15 PM »

I have a book about Honda and how they transitioned from making motorcycles to cars. They interviewed a supplier that had shipped 316,000 pc of a particular part to the Ohio plant. Of those 44 were rejected. That's .0001%. Honda graded their quality "satisfactory, not outstanding."

The book was written in 1988. Probably not good enough today.

Logged
69Z28-RS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2451


owner since '76


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2013, 05:21:40 PM »

That was back in the 'Quality Circle' days... Smiley
Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.084 seconds with 18 queries.