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Topics - dutch

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1
General Discussion / Z/28 engine pad stamp codes..
« on: September 11, 2020, 12:35:52 PM »
Was reading some stuff on a Facebook discussion regarding 1968 (all 3 years of 1st gen actually) Z2/8 engine code stamps, and someone came up with MI after all of the regular MO, MP, and DZ, codes were mentioned.
Apparently they claim the Estes' Z convertible has an MI code assigned to the 302 block and they claim that proves it is a valid code for Z2/8 engines thusly.
Firstly - does this 'one vehicle' in fact have an MI code stamping and does it have a regular 678 engine block casting number??
Secondly - we all know this is a valid, yet oddball vehicle. Should it in any way be considered a 'production vehicle' or one that should hold any significance as a valid type or model for the 1968 production year?
and..
Thirdly - some have commented that this particular car is or should be considered a COPO car since it has this MI code and in fact are saying that MI is a code designated for a COPO vehicle by GM?

I would love to hear any thoughts regarding this particular car - and it's unique code or designation if in fact MI is truly the stamp on the engine block.
I personally consider this car can't or shouldn't be considered a COPO because it wasn't ordered through the dealer or COPO system - instead it was probably concocted as a on-off or test vehicle status considering it was the only example made, and that it probably like many was probably slated and destined to be crushed at some point like many other 'test vehicles' GM made for evaluation and then finally destroyed after a point, never truly considered to be a long term car for public sale..
All comments and/or details shared are greatly appreciated!
Randy.. 
   

2
General Discussion / Big Block ID assistance..
« on: February 27, 2020, 08:00:52 PM »
I have access to a Big Block that has a casting number of 3999289 on the back top - a stamping of T0123TSK on the pad along with what appears to be T5S507311 partial VIN and GM 10P on the bellhousing back under the flywheel along with a 74-67 CONV cast there as well..
Anyone care to try and decode this for me - I'm thinking 454 - early '70's possibly a truck engine - but I'm not sure..  It had 336781 heads on it but not sure if they are original nor am I sure if the block is 2 or 4 bolt mains yet..
Thanks for any help - Randy!
 

3
General Discussion / Small and Big Block Chev Bellhousing bolt patterns..
« on: February 11, 2020, 03:23:22 PM »
Sort of a strange question I admit - but can anyone tell me if the block bellhousing bolt patterns are the same or different between small and big block castings?
I have a very well built engine stand and I would like to sell it to free up some space and also for lack of need for it, but I can't find anywhere that confirms the block bolt patterns are different or the same..
I've always played with small blocks and welded up this stand for ones I had, but the question "would the fixed standoffs also allow a big block to be bolted up to it" and I really had no certain idea.. 
I'm pretty sure they would, considering most all of the transmissions interchange between them from what I know - but in saying that I realized I was somewhat assuming (you know how that works) and would like to get some better assurance that is the case before I try and advertise it..
Thanks for any input or comments!
Randy 

4
General Discussion / Help Id'ing an old Muncie Case & Tailshaft..
« on: October 16, 2019, 03:23:47 PM »
If anyone can shed some light on what I have shelved here and planning to get rid of - it would be much appreciated.
Aluminum Maincase - Casting Number 3851325 date code stamped P 0 18 (date code casting circle markings below the casting number are a 4 in upper half of the component casting circle with 3 dots in lower half) and it has what appears to be 7/8" mainshaft diameter bore hole..
Aluminum Tailshaft Housing - Casting Number 3846429 (speedometer hook up on the driver's side)
There is no VIN stamped on Maincase and boss for drain plug isn't drilled or threaded..
I know these are Muncie 4 speed bits - but other than that I'm limited and thinking earlier than 67 or 68 year and casting date marker makes it from the 4th month and 3rd week of whatever year it was produced in - as well as being a May 18th installation of whatever year also - and no drain hole means no M22.
The lack of VIN probably means prior to GM worrying about POP or warranty tracking like the late 67's or 68 versions and onward.
I'm thinking M20 or M21 but other than that is there anything else to add?
I'm hopeful of finding some more info before advertising it for sale - so I can be helpful of definitively and accurately assisting someone who may be looking for such bits for a specific year or model application.
Additionally could anyone add their impressions of what both of these might be worth - they are in excellent condition (no Sidecover unfortunately) and there are no cracks or wear marks in the ears or anywhere inside or out!
Thanks for any assistance!  Randy 

5
General Discussion / Valuation of 1968 Z 2/8's in the US market..
« on: February 06, 2019, 04:47:35 AM »
I fully well know the..  'it's worthless without pictures' deal but..
Can anyone try and give me a range of current prices for 1968 Z 2/8's in the US currently, or what this Summer could hold for values that such a vehicle might bring?
I have one that I have owned for over 30 years now and it hasn't moved more than 3 times in each of the past 3 Summers (and very little in many Summers previously unfortunately) and with our driving seasons here pretty short duration compared to the US or even Southern Parts of Canada - that won't change - nor will my lack of interest now or indeed time to play with it, going forward.
The car is a 63,000 mile mostly original version, with a 355 engine in it presently with many parts on it from the original and 'born with'  .030 over - '678 block, perfect uncut crank, stock rods, TRW L2210AF pistons, ARP fasteners, 291 heads, 610 intake, orig. clutch fan, orig. pan, orig. windage tray etc. etc. etc.. which is completely rebuilt and residing on an engine stand in my garage.
This engine also has a very rare '266 distributor which few of these engines were blessed with (leftovers from '67 production according to sources of mine who have discussed and confirmed this with Jerry MacNeish and had similarly dated and equipped cars judged) but it is missing the original carb and alternator presently.
The engine and transmission are original to the vehicle but the 3:73 12 bolt presently seems to be dated a couple of days too close to the delivery date - so I suspect it was possibly swapped in a warranty deal at some point shortly after delivery into Southern Ontario Canada.
Rumored to originally have been sold to a NHL hockey player (probably Toronto Maple Leaf player - because of the dealer proximity to Toronto) I have confirmed the ownership back as far as the 2nd owner in personal conversations.
It is a Norwood 02D car - originally with '302' fender badges (just barely still installed before the GM swap over to the newer Z2/8-type) changed out by a previous owner wishing for more profile I guess, and was an original PP Seafrost Green/black stripes, repainted (still very decent paint) in the 1980's red with black stripes.  Interior black standard, original with no console and in very nice condition with non original radio installed and aftermarket dash pad (original cracked one I still have).
Cowl hood (original flat one with the car still) and front and rear spoilers added as well as air shocks and some small trim pieces..
Originally a fairly low option KD1 (smog) exempt Z2/8  as delivered into Canada as per George Zapora (GM Vintage Car Services) and their vintage car documentation department.
Rear quarters were changed in 1980 with OEM GM units - but from what I'm told there was very little need to do so - just a very picky owner who otherwise left the car untouched and stripped it down to bare metal for the repaint at that point, there was some evidence on the floor pans of the original green overspray when I got it.
Original chrome is decent for a car of this vintage, original gas tank, wheels, Hurst shifter added, T3 headlights, floor pans and rockers very solid and good, perfect trunk, original glass except windshield, needs better window fuzzies (I have repop versions - but haven't put them on), and I have brand new door rubbers which I can't seem to get the time to install over the past 3 years - which seems to be a common theme here and shows how much I've actually had sufficient time to play around with the car or urge to do so!
I would like to sell it is the US depending on how much trouble and cost it will be to do so - since where I live here in Northern Ontario there isn't much appreciation of this type of vehicle or subsequent value given to ones that are fairly rare and/or unusual.. keep getting.. the "Yea - I had one just like yours when I was in high school.. 'cept mine was a convertible and had an automatic, with air conditioning.. wish I still had it" type of thing - if that makes any sense at all and emphasizes my point!
My wife has finally convinced me it needs to go, and as much as it makes me feel 18 all over again every time I fire it up -at my age now and condition, maybe that's not necessarily a good thing in some ways.. Replaced knees, shoulders, and an impeding hip operation keeps me from even getting in or out gracefully or from driving it well  - so I'm realizing 'the time has come' if you catch my drift..
I do have some older pictures from 10 or more years back - but have never been successful trying to put any up here and my old Photobucket account is probably inoperable now I'm sure..

This kinda hurts to have to do but it is what it is..
Just trying to start getting plans organized - so any decent stabs at giving some pricing ideas are much appreciated!

Note: This long and rambling post is NOT intended as a 'fishing expedition' or veiled 'For Sale' effort here - so Please take it for what the intent is, and my appreciation is great towards anyone who can try and throw some estimates of current values my way!
Thanks very much.. Randy             

6
General Discussion / '68 Front Bumper Guards..
« on: March 21, 2017, 11:38:56 PM »
Don't have (can't find) it.. my AIM right now..  ::) as I'm sure it would tell me the answers to my questions here - but.. I was wondering if adding bumper guards to the front of a '68 required drilling any holes into the bumper itself or would leave any obvious ones in the valence if I installed some? 
I always had guards on the front and rear of my cars 'back in the day' and although I never really liked them all that much on Camaros, I must admit they have sort of grown on me in the past while and I would consider adding some to the front of 'ol Betsey if I don't have to do anything to the actual bumper or lower valance that wasn't really obvious or permanent in the way of marking either, so if the look doesn't do it for me, at some point in the future, I could always 'go back' easily!
Is there also a specific mounting point that all guards have to sit at in order to fit correctly or is the distance outwards from the centerline of the bumper open to preference of the installer or taste to a degree?
Thanks - Randy 

7
Decoding/Numbers / Water Pump Bypass fitting..
« on: January 12, 2017, 06:21:43 PM »
Another water pump question..
My '68 Z2/8 has a water pump that appears to have been changed at some point. If I recall, the casting number when I checked matches what Jerry's book said should be correct for the timeframe the motor was built in, but I couldn't find a stamp anywhere where it was suggested it would be.. 
There is a lot of paint on it, possibly if the stamping is there and light and I could have covered it with my overzealous paint skills!
Anyway - the pump has a plug in the top where a bypass fitting should be and from what I've read the bypass hose deal doesn't do much if anything to aid cooling - but I'd still like to make it appear somewhat more 'factory correct'- but I'm not sure how I can get the plug out without possibly ruining the pump itself.
I read where some pumps that aren't originals have the wrong diameter holes as well and this makes necessary some form of sleeve or adapter.
I did try a large box end and with some assistance from a hammer, managed to produce no apparent movement in the plug so I am assuming these after decades are going to be near impossible to remove without liberal use of heat and/or Liquid Wrench etc..
Suggestions as to the best way to get the plug in it now out - and if in fact it might be an original, can or will heat easily reduce the internals to crap easily?
Assuming I manage it (all things come apart in some way or another - eh?) -  if the hole diameter is in fact proven to be wrong for any such fitting, what would be the best and least apparent way to adapt it?

Thanks - Randy 

8
General Discussion / Sheet Metal Stamping info & ??'s
« on: November 30, 2016, 02:02:09 AM »
Saw a post that had someone's sheet metal stamp(s) mentioned and the question was what does this mean?
The answer was "the week it was produced" or something to that effect - followed by a mention of the Alphs character designating the stamping plant..
I can't find the thread now but it got me wondering where should I look for fenders, quarters, doors trunk lid etc. stamps (assume they all have a specific location for each type of piece) and exactly how should they relate to the build date of anyone's car.
I had notes of some I found on my Z 2/8 rear fenders inside the trunk near the seam - one was 'H' 08 and the other was harder to figure out but appeared to be an 'N' 7 - do these seem logical for a Norwood 02D build car and where would I look for other such stamps on trunk lids, front fenders, etc. etc.?
I may get a chance since the weather is extremely mild and snow-free here for this time of year (50's) vs normally -10 to -20 degrees with 12 to 24" of the white stuff and I may try and take a look at it in storage if I can follow some direction from you guys..  Thanks - Randy

9
General Discussion / First Gen dual exhaust hanger plates..
« on: November 08, 2016, 06:46:00 AM »
2 years ago I tried to help a guy I met, decide if he should take on a '68 project car he found locally. The car was reported to originally be a small block SS car (correct heater box) but without any rad / drivetrain and missing much of the interior and trim, I admitted to him finally that I really couldn't help him ID it much with the poor tag info '68's are obviously saddled with.
My best suggestion was for him to try GM Documentation Services and see what they could cough up if it was sold in Canada (Norwood tag) and because it did have a return fuel line (or what was left of one) I told him I thought that was a good SS starting point.. but when I went looking for the dual exhaust plate on the frame rail I couldn't see anything like I have seen pictured for '69's to suggest it may have had a dual exhaust option to further raise the SS possibilities.
Even though he finally passed on the car (too much work for his talents and bankroll) it always left me wondering - did '67's and '68's have exactly the same shape of welded on plate with the top and bottom 'U' shaped notches located on the rails like I have seen pictured for '69's?
If not, does anyone have a picture or two they could share showing what differences there are?
I did search around myself but other than more '69 vintage pictures I came up empty on earlier years..
My own Z was in dead storage at the time we looked at the car for him and is already put away now this year - and admittedly I never thought to look at it when it wasn't!
Saw him yesterday for the first time in a couple of years and it tweaked my memory..
Appreciate any and all responses and/or especially pictures! Thanks - Randy

10
General Discussion / Battery Cell Plug Colours?
« on: June 15, 2016, 05:31:15 PM »
I have some old battery Cell Plugs one being  a Delco Eye one and they are all very darkly coloured red on the script and circle that is in the centre of each.  Lately I've been seeing pictures posted that show the same script and broken circle painted with a very brightly version of red or yellow (colours depending on the year and application I assume)..
My question is.. I don't recall ever noticing such bright colours on these plugs from brand new when I bought and owned brand new cars in the late 60's through the early seventies..
Is this somewhat more of the 'restoration graffiti' that has crept in here and made recently reproduced colours on these much brighter than they were actually back in the day - or has my mind just faded (pardon the pun) so much that I have forgotten that they were so brightly coloured back 40 or more years ago?
I also have one very brightly scripted one - so I'm trying to decide if I should brighten mine all up to match what the current trend seems to be or leave them the dark red colour they currently have - Thanks Randy   

11
General Discussion / Best Repro Gas Tank..
« on: September 01, 2015, 03:34:58 AM »
Opinions on where to get a new gas tank that most closely resembles an original one for a '68.
I coated mine inside with an Eastwood kit probably 12 to 15 years back and I'm not sure if the coating has started to give up - but for the trouble of redoing it (if in fact that is possible) if that is what it ends up needing, I figure I would just replace it if there are good reproductions readily available in Canada..
Thought I saw a discussion or two regarding Spectra tanks being one of the best repro ones, years back - is that the case still or are there better, more accurate brands now available?
Thanks for any input - Randy

12
Maintenance / Intake Sealant..
« on: June 05, 2015, 10:11:27 PM »
I intend to remove my intake and reseal it in the next while and would like opinions as to what is generally considered best sealant is for the dams at the front and back ends of the manifold and around the water passages etc..
Whatever I used years ago has gotten soft and mushy and now lets some of the oil especially below where the filler neck (its a '68) is located, leak out after I have added some occasionally - not a lot - but enough to be messy if I don't keep at it..
Is there a preferred method of sealing (many have said to immediately set the manifold on a new bed of sealer without tightening it down for an hour or two to let it stick to both surfaces without collapsing the dam) and is there a preferred brand and/or type of sealer that works and lasts best than all others?
Thanks for any info - Randy

13
Maintenance / Fel Pro - gray bolt prep..
« on: May 06, 2015, 01:57:31 AM »
I assembled an engine a few years ago using Fel Pro gray bolt prep on the head bolts and never retorqued the bolts - although the head gaskets (also Fel Pro) were a type that specified as not needing it to be done.
Question - does anyone know if gray bolt prep remains flexible and useful enough to allow bolts to be retorqued at any point.
I do recall that it did specify that head bolts could be retightened after the first heat /cool cycle using it - but does anyone know if it would be possible even after a couple of years of moderate use - or will it have hardened up to a point where any additional tightening will just create more problems than it might fix?
Thanks - my understanding is that it is no longer available, if so are there any best alternatives to it? - Randy
 

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General Discussion / Distributor Questions..
« on: August 24, 2014, 07:34:26 PM »
There has been quite a bit of discussion regarding distributors lately - but the one thing I really haven't seen is many comments regarding the advance weights in them.
I have a '266 distributor in my '68 Zed and I recall taking out the original weights when I put in a kit and changed (lightened) up the springs and used the aftermarket weights in it, a few years back.
Question I have - since I can't right now locate the weights that are original to my distributor is.. are all GM distributor weights the same or were some specific to certain distributors like the high performance versions in L78 and Z 2/8's or solid lifter motors?
I'm sure the weights I took out are around somewhere (I recall seeing them a while back somewhere - but you know how you can never find stuff when you need to - only to have it show up later when you aren't looking anymore?) but in the meantime I have a couple of other old distributors from regular performance 283 and 327 small blocks, and I am wondering if they would likely exactly the same and be just as good to use.
I was going to trash the Accel or Mr. Gasket ones in it now and return it to 'as built' with slightly heavier springs than what I have in it right now, since the car occasionally has a wandering idle and I feel it is probably a case of the springs being a bit too light to settle it back down, along with possibly the aftermarket weights possibly being a bit different from the GM original types as well..
Any suggestions or comments are much appreciated - Thanks - Randy
 

15
General Discussion / What's it Worth..?
« on: June 17, 2014, 04:40:29 AM »
Got a few guys bugging me about selling my '68 Z 2/8 and I honestly don't really have any clue what I would throw out for a price if one of them actually gets serious, but since I've come somewhat reluctantly to the realization that it sits stored 10 months of the year and I seem to get less and less time each passing year to enjoying driving and playing with it, I am entertaining the idea of my life minus it for the first time in 23 years..

Details..
Its a real Z'ed with GM Canada Vintage Service documentation - 64,000 original miles - no other paperwork unfortunately.
Repainted in 1980 - BC/CC red with black stripes and still reasonable - but originally PP (Seafrost Green) w/ black stripes.
Original S. Ontario dealer-sold car and I have traced back all of the previous 8 owners except the first who was rumoured to be an NHL player who played in the US and traded the car back into the original dealer after 1 hockey season.
Original (born with) engine and M21 trans. Rear appears to have replaced with an almost perfect date code 12 bolt - but axle tube stamp indicates it should be out of a '68 Nova?..  2nd owner who was both 2nd and 4th! told me he raced the car so maybe the rear let go at some point by 1972 1973?
Body is very nice and straight with only rear quarters being replaced (G M OEM full panels apparently by the 6th owner in 1980 when repainted red) due to anal tendencies for some apparently very minor wheelwell corrosion.
Very few options - standard black interior in very nice condition with only carpets and dash pad (old one I still have) not 'born with'.
OEM radio gone and 2 aftermarket rear speakers are only mods internally.
I have a cowl hood on it but still have original flat hood.
The hidden VIN stamps are there and match.
Presently the 302 shortblock sits on a stand in my basement for lack of affordable gas and in it's place is a 350 4 bolt with the original bits like heads intake etc. on it - the 302 was rebuilt with race quality bearings, Mains were studded and both they and rods have ARP fasteners and had all had clearances massaged to be perfect - it has .030 over TRW L2210AF pistons and the crank is polished and uncut. I don't have the original 4053 carb. 
Front and rear Spoilers were on the car from the 1980 repaint and are not original to the car.
The car was an early build model with most of the date coding in late Dec '67 and thus has some engine parts that are leftover '67 Z'ed bits like the 266 distributor.
Old pictures I saw and previous owners stated that it had the 302 front fender emblems and not the Z 2/8 ones now in place.
Underside of car is very solid but typical of a Canadian car has some crustiness and things like crossmember, controls arms, and rear, have some pitting as would be expected.
Everything like buzzers, wipers, lights etc. all work as new..
The only thing I haven't gotten around to - as it barely sees 200 miles a Summer at best - to shows and cruise nights - is the rear end is leaking somewhat at the pinion seal and it has a slight vibration telling me the pinion bearings and seal need replacement - but otherwise is very quiet.
Brakes are original including rotors, drums, master cylinder, and calipers (with seals and 'O' ring etc.) and all work amazing.
Front and rear bumpers could use new chrome but are somewhat passable - rest of SS and aluminum trim bits are in very good condition.
Glass is original with the exception of the Windshield which now is tinted.
Still has T3's, original marker light and rear lenses etc.

Lots more... and I could go on forever - but if a few of you who are market-savy would care to pass along some rough numbers to give me some starting point when and if I get up the courage when needed, it would be very much appreciated - Randy

PS - I know what the first response will be.. and I've never had any success posting pictures up here so I long ago gave up trying..

Thanks Again..   
     
 
 

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