Author Topic: Shifters  (Read 2431 times)

sixt9x33rs

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Shifters
« on: January 03, 2012, 12:42:46 AM »
Has anyone heard of a 69 Hurst Comp Plus for a Muncie and a different version for a Saginaw/ I thought they were both the same?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Ed_B

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 01:03:25 AM »
Shifter body is the same. Linkage is different.

Ed

69pace

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 04:51:03 AM »
Since the Competition Plus line of shifters was only aftermarket over the counter there were generic and specific mounts, rods, and linkage per application and year. 
1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
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sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 12:55:42 AM »
Since the Competition Plus line of shifters was only aftermarket over the counter there were generic and specific mounts, rods, and linkage per application and year. 
They were not just over the counter. Z/28 and all 69 four speeds had them.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

69pace

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 03:27:50 AM »
Since the Competition Plus line of shifters was only aftermarket over the counter there were generic and specific mounts, rods, and linkage per application and year.  
They were not just over the counter. Z/28 and all 69 four speeds had them.
No Actually the Competition Plus is a retail line. Hurst made custom shifters to OEM specs for Factory installation only, for GM, and others in the late 60's early 70's that are not Comp Plus line shifters. These special shifters were available as service replacement from GM parts counters but not sold as retail units. The competition plus line was sold retail and marketed for the same vehicles that they manufactured special factory OEM units for. So in effect you could order a sag trans and get a muncie shifter from the factory, but buy a Comp Plus shifter down the corner at ACME and have a much better shifter.

While they may all "look" the same they are not. The Comp plus line had adjustment bolts front and back and other features such as push down to reverse lock out.  Factory OEM Hurst shifters do not. The linkage, rods, sticks and mounting plates are not interchangeable between the two lines for the most part. While you may get a rod or two or a lever or two to work, the factory stuff works best with factory OEM Hurst shifters, and aftermarket over the counter works best on them. Mixing an matching the parts causes misery - been there done that.  I spent hours researching archives.  There should be a few decent links here and at TC documenting the difference.

1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
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sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 01:00:38 PM »
I am going through the misery now.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

69pace

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 01:20:37 PM »
I am going through the misery now.
Yeah I noticed your other thread. I was looking to see if I kept any of the Chevelle info I had. If I find it I'll pm it over to you.

Hurst made custom shifters for many GM lines including the Chevrolet models Camaro, Chevelle, but also for Olds, and Pontiac over the years. I would say if you are trying to use a Hurst OEM shifter that was made for a Chevelle on a Saginaw in a Camaro you are going to need some custom made rods and linkage.

You can try rods and levers from a Competition Plus retail shifter for a Saginaw trans but change out the bushings for steel ones - Hurst Speed Pac or also known as the Pit Pac bushings.  You will most likely need to use the U clamp tail mounting method if the Hurst won't bolt to the standard Muncie shifter plate on the Saginaw. If your head isn't spinning yet you might also just want to scrap it all and buy a new comp plus retail with linkage for a Sag and call it done. At least that has a 99.9% chance of working the first time, and shifting every time. Dropped shifts and constant re-setting are signs that the shifter and linkage are mis-matched. Nothing like being in traffic stuck in neutral (better then fourth).  
1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
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JoeC

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 06:06:24 PM »
the OEM 69 Camaro Hurst is a competion plus - it is stamped on the shifter

The aftermarket Hurst also has competion plus stamped on it but they are differnt shifters with no major parts the same

Hurst does not make an install kit for 69 Camaro with sag
they told you to use the Hurst aftermarket shifter with the factory rods and mount plate

The original Sag rods and levers are hard to find.

You can use the Sag install kit for 67-68 Camaro but needs modifications to make it work



sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 01:08:15 AM »
I am going through the misery now.
Yeah I noticed your other thread. I was looking to see if I kept any of the Chevelle info I had. If I find it I'll pm it over to you.

Hurst made custom shifters for many GM lines including the Chevrolet models Camaro, Chevelle, but also for Olds, and Pontiac over the years. I would say if you are trying to use a Hurst OEM shifter that was made for a Chevelle on a Saginaw in a Camaro you are going to need some custom made rods and linkage.

You can try rods and levers from a Competition Plus retail shifter for a Saginaw trans but change out the bushings for steel ones - Hurst Speed Pac or also known as the Pit Pac bushings.  You will most likely need to use the U clamp tail mounting method if the Hurst won't bolt to the standard Muncie shifter plate on the Saginaw. If your head isn't spinning yet you might also just want to scrap it all and buy a new comp plus retail with linkage for a Sag and call it done. At least that has a 99.9% chance of working the first time, and shifting every time. Dropped shifts and constant re-setting are signs that the shifter and linkage are mis-matched. Nothing like being in traffic stuck in neutral (better then fourth). 

Actually I have an OEM Camaro shifter with Chevelle rods and a retail style comp plus plate. I have found a set of Camaro Saginaw rods which I have ordered and plan on using. I also have a OEM style plate so at the end of the day I SHOULD have all three OEM pieces.

I may have missed something?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 01:47:09 AM »
This is the shifter I am using.

'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Stingr69

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 11:25:48 AM »
That is the OEM GM version of the '69 Camaro Hurst shifter. If you were able to find original (repro) GM shift rods, bracket and levers to go with it you would be doing pretty good BUT you still are not completely out of the woods. The bolt pattern on the tail housing of the tranny will need to match the mounting bracket AND the pattern needs to be IN THE SAME PLACE as it was for 69. I do not know much about Saginaw tailhousings so I can't comment there but a Muncie tail housing from '69 has a different bolt pattern LOCATION as compared to a Muncie tailhousing from the early 70's. It looks like it would be in the same PLACE (with only 3 bolts vs 5), but it isn't. 

Keep your fingers crossed.

-Mark.

sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 12:16:19 PM »
I found a set of Saginaw shifter rods but don't have them yet. Right now in the car is the set of Chevelle rods and and aftermarket shifter plate with the loop that goes around the tai shaft. It shifts ok in the car but the stick touches the console in 3rd. This is while the car is not running who knows what will happen when the car is under load running, but it really doesn't matter because I will get all the right pieces. In addition to the shifter plate that is in the car I have two other plates. I hope out of the three one is right! ???

Thanks for all the help with this.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

JoeC

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2012, 04:35:56 PM »
that is a OEM Hurst comp plus so you are OK there

The big mount plate that used the 2 trans mount bolts and the u bolt on the tail was used for 67-68 Camaro Muncie and Sag and does not use the tapped holes on the side of the trans.

I have seen the 67-68 Sag install kit used on the 69 but needs some mods and can't use the 69 steering wheel lock out rod
also have to use the 67-68 rev lights switch set up.

The best way to go is to use the 69 OEM Sag install kit but they are hard to find.
I have a picture of the 69 Sag reverse lever if you need one.
It is a large odd looking lever

sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 12:18:53 AM »
Hi Joe

Please send a picture of the reverse lever.

I hope to have the right rods next week. Can you shoot me a picture of the right shifter plate?

Thanks

Lawrence

'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: Shifters
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 12:59:03 PM »
I am driving the car now and what a huge improvement. The car shifts silky smooth with no binding or sticking of the shifter rods, but you can tell the shifter is not sitting in the console correctly. I should have the Saginaw rods next week and I just need to figure out what plate to use. Then on to the reverse lock out rod.

'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles