Author Topic: black on tailpan on ss cars  (Read 48931 times)

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2967
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2013, 03:20:47 PM »
semi-gloss DOES have gloss (not full gloss), but something less.    Even "flat" has a small degree of gloss (as it's extremely difficult to achieve totally flat surfaces - re reflections).

During the last 60's/early 70's all of the American car makers used some 'non glossy' black accents on their performance cars.  in some cases, it was much much flatter than what Chevrolet used.  The problem with all of those 'non full gloss' paints is that just rubbing them, washing them, polishing them, etc... made them MORE glossy!    Have you ever seen the flat black paints after they've been washed, rubbed, etc for a number of years?   They look more glossy as a result of all that.

So, talking about how glossy, or non glossy, 44 yr old 'original' paint is NOW.. is subject to a LOT of error sources.  I'm old enough to remember how these early Camaros looked when new, and I owned some then, and had many friends with them as well.  I bought a new '70 RR, with a non-glossy black on the hood, and I remember like yesterday how difficult it was when polishing/waxing the car, NOT to get anything on the black portion, as it made it look ugly when you got polish or wax on the edges of the black hood.   A lot of people would just polish / wax the entire thing, for a consistent look, even though it totally changed the 'gloss level' as painted in the factory.   
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

paceme

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #136 on: October 28, 2013, 05:02:48 PM »
This is only my opinion, which I've restated as many times as new threads appear. To me the tail panel used "black out" paint which was a semi gloss. If you polish semi gloss it will become more reflective and change towards a gloss. I do not believe based on what I have inspected/examined that the "black out" paint was the same paint they applied to black cars. To prove my observation look at the second picture in NOYENKO posted #131, and you'll see the contrast between the black exterior paint and the tail panel paint.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 05:31:30 PM by paceme »
Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com

festival

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2013, 05:28:18 PM »
Mark,

The tail panels were painted at NOR on the open line area at nearly the same time the RS Black out was painted.  This was completed external to a booth.




Mark

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 994
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2013, 06:03:09 PM »
From the assemlby report;

"If the car required Z28, Z10, or Z11 stripes or a black rear end panel or rockers, they were masked and manually sprayed in the in-line repair booth/oven system after the reflow oven, including the cowl vent panel; spoilers were painted body color separate from the body, and were final-installed to the deck lid just prior to the repair booth. The rear window filler panel, deck lid and spoiler were masked and sprayed stripe color in the repair booth, and baked in the repair oven before the body went back downstairs to the Trim Shop. The paint guns in the repair booth were fed from manifolds that were part of the main color circulating system so that the repair booth used exactly the same paint the main color booths were using."

Was this physically before, or after the blackout booth on the line?

The statement above indicating the repair booth as the source of panel blackout almost makes it a done deal that the rocker panels and tail panel were painted using the same black paint as the rest of the car was painted with, however while it was reflowed to an extent, it was not buffed out to a final shine like the rest of the body was.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

festival

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #139 on: October 28, 2013, 06:27:54 PM »
Mark,

For NOR I have a picture in the book showing this element taking place on the line.  I did not precisely determine where just yet but that would be easy enough since the vending machines are in the background.  I can look at the prints for vending areas that were set up adjacent to the paint line areas.

We could simply ask the guys that did this work, or you could ask these same guys this question and many more on any topic.  I still have a few spots open for the Norwood GM Heritage center trip and tour.

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #140 on: October 28, 2013, 06:31:25 PM »
Good info Festival, can you post a picture of that? We are all fans of pictures here, thanks!
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2967
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #141 on: October 28, 2013, 06:37:33 PM »
Mark,

For NOR I have a picture in the book showing this element taking place on the line.  I did not precisely determine where just yet but that would be easy enough since the vending machines are in the background.  I can look at the prints for vending areas that were set up adjacent to the paint line areas.

We could simply ask the guys that did this work, or you could ask these same guys this question and many more on any topic.  I still have a few spots open for the Norwood GM Heritage center trip and tour.

How about some details on the GM Norwood heritage center tour??   
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

festival

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #142 on: October 28, 2013, 06:52:12 PM »
Good info Festival, can you post a picture of that? We are all fans of pictures here, thanks!

Picture is covered by a copyright agreement.  I cannot post it on the internet.  For those with the book "Echoes of Norwood" turn to page  128.

festival

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #143 on: October 28, 2013, 06:54:15 PM »

[/quote]
How about some details on the GM Norwood heritage center tour??   
[/quote]

Details Here:  http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/543679/GM_Retiree_Day#Post543679

Sauron327

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 905
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2013, 09:07:03 PM »
it was not buffed out to a final shine like the rest of the body was.
They buffed all these cars?

Mark

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 994
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2013, 09:19:25 PM »
I guess polished is to high a description, they were wet sanded with mineral spirits pror to going back into the main line reflow oven.  Only cars produced by GM for shows, and special events like the real indy pace cars used at the tracks were actually cut and polished.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

MO

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2013, 02:57:09 AM »
I look at the pics above and they show reflections, as in they have a gloss. What I see people thinking is correct is a non reflective semi or satin.

Not to mention that there is ultraviolet deterioration/oxidation on exposed paint not found on the photos that Charley posted.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2967
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2013, 03:51:25 AM »
since we are having quite a discussion on 'gloss' 'semigloss', etc, I think it would be beneficial if we all shared a similar definition.   The following link has both general definitions, and very good technical definitions of 'gloss' from an optical perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss_(optics)

and since when we 'see' gloss, we are basically seeing the light reflected from a surface, the following definition of 'reflectance' and reflectivity is important to understand.

http://www.answers.com/topic/reflectivity

Having worked in the optical and imaging fields of engineering for 40 years, I would prefer if we all used similar words and definitions..  :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1221
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2013, 08:03:13 PM »
Figured I would beat on this dead horse some more..  Ran across this picture the other day thought I would post it up.  My father with his 68 L78 in the mid 80's..


Darrell Cook
1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1221
    • View Profile
Re: black on tailpan on ss cars
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2013, 08:09:56 PM »
Darrell Cook
1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28