Author Topic: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual  (Read 49851 times)

68SixBangerRS

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Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« on: October 04, 2021, 02:29:34 AM »
I haven't been on here for quite awhile.  Some of you may remember my previous 6-cylinder Camaros...a very rusty '68 RS coupe with a 230 six and a 3-on-the-tree (sold to a guy who needed a VIN and title), another very rusty barn find '69 coupe with a 250 six and a 3-on-the-tree (sold to a guy planning to build a phony SS with an LS...yawn!), a restored '69 coupe with a 250 six and an ultra-rare air-cooled Torque Drive trans (sold to a guy who knew it was one of possibly only 2 left in existence), and my latest find, a 'Frost Green '69 coupe with 44k original miles and its matching number drivetrain...250 six with a 3-speed manual and 3.08 open rear.  In addition, I just sold possibly the only '70 Camaro left in existence with a 250 six and a 3-speed manual...an incredibly original Citrus Green Los Angeles car... I posted a lot of info and photos of it over on Nasty Z28 (the best 2nd Gen Camaro website in my opinion).  I am here to tell anyone that I KNOW 6-cylinder Camaros!!!

I have known about this particular 6-cylinder '69 Camaro for quite awhile...it was purchased new by my nephew Earl's mother-in-law, Charlotte.  My nephew (and everyone else in my family...and all my friends) knows that I absolutely love classic cars...Camaros, Novas, Firebirds, Squarebodies, even a Datsun 240Z and an early Toyota MR2.  I had seen photos of the car hanging on the wall of Earl's basement man cave and asked if it was for sale and his answer was that Charlotte had promised it to her oldest child...her daughter Teresa.  About 2 months ago Earl called to tell me that Charlotte was interested in selling her Camaro to me (apparently she and Teresa's partner Beth had had a falling out and the car was now up for grabs).  I actually asked my wife if I could buy yet another classic car and she was not open to that option, so I made the very difficult decision to sell my '70 after driving to the small town in Arkansas where Charlotte lived so I could assess the condition of the car (gorgeous survivor).  I put a couple grand down on it and then sold the '70.  I rented a U-Haul pickup and double axle trailer on Labor Day weekend and drove 1,550 miles round-trip from Columbus to get it.

Charlotte gave me several photos of the car from the early '70s to the early '80s and told me the story of it.  She was 19 years-old in Sept. 1969 and had recently started classes at the Univ. of Nebraska in Lincoln, as well as working as a secretary at a country club in Lincoln.  She was driving an uninspiring white '64 Rambler 4-door with a 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree.  She was making enough money at her part-time job to make the payments on a new car.  Her grandfather said she should buy a Chevy with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual, and her mother said she would co-sign the loan and provide $250 for the down payment (the dealer gave $350 for the Rambler).  Charlotte and her mom went a few blocks from their house to Misle Chevrolet, one of 2 large Chevy dealers in Lincoln (at that time a medium-sized city with a population of approximately 100k).  Misle was very close to the U of N and usually had a good selection of cars that appealed to young people...Camaros, Novas, and Chevelles.  The evening that Charlotte bought this car was Sept. 19, 1969 (a Friday).  She had decided to buy a Camaro instead of a Nova because she thought it was sportier and the cost wasn't much more.  Misle had 12-15 Camaros that evening and 3 of them had sixes...two automatics and one manual.  The dealer wasn't willing to negotiate on the car (even though they had been sitting on it for 4 months), so she agreed to pay full price (the dealer's only concession to her was to throw in a set of magnesium hubcaps in exchange for the dog-dish caps...Charlotte saw the mag hubcaps on a showroom display board and immediately wanted them).  She and her mom drove home with the green Camaro after spending about 3 hours at Misle.

Her Camaro was rather plain, but still a very nice car for a teenager.  It had the larger 250 six ($25.00), Z21 Style Trim Group ($45.00), tinted glass on all windows ($31.00), AM radio ($58.00), and E78-14 whitewall tires ($24.00)...the aforementioned mag-style hubcaps were a $70.00 freebie.  Charlotte recalled that the out-the-door price was exactly $2,900 and a little change.  Her payments were through the 1st National Bank of Lincoln...$110.00 per month for 24 months.  She loved everything about the car except the manual steering and the awkward column-shifter (she said it was very stiff-shifting and sometimes hard to get into 1st).  After owning it for 6 months, she moved from Lincoln to Los Angeles to be near her brother Bob, a Marine stationed at El Toro Marine Corps Air Station (on the far south side of the LA metro area).  She loved LA, but moved back home after one year because she missed her former boyfriend Lyle.  She and Lyle married in 1971 and had 3 daughters...the Camaro became a grocery-getter.  Charlotte completed a degree in accounting at the U of Nebraska and she was hired by the US Treasury Dept to become an auditor.  She began several moves to bigger cities...Omaha, then Chicago, then Washington DC and the Camaro would sit for long periods at her brother Bob's farm near Milford, NE.  In 1983 Charlotte decided to buy a new Camaro with A/C, an automatic trans, and power accessories.  The dealer offered her $750 trade-in for the '69 and she decided to keep it (it had only 43k miles at that time and the salesmen were salivating over it).  Thus began 35 years of storage in a machine shed at Bob's farm.  Bob passed away in 2018 and the Camaro was moved to Charlotte and Lyle's new home in rural Arkansas.  In early 2021 the car was towed to a mechanic's shop in Arkansas to get it drivable again (all it needed was to have the gas tank drained and a new battery...the tires were replaced in 2018).

The car is remarkably original, but Lyle said that it was repainted in 1975 after it was keyed.  It also had the lower right quarter panel and left front fender replaced due to minor accidents in parking lots.  Lyle located a steering column in a junkyard Nova with a green interior and a floor shifter and bought the parts to convert the Camaro to a floor shift.  The work was done very well and looks factory correct...the floor shifter lends the car a very sporty vibe.  Unfortunately, the 3-on-the-tree column and transmission rods were not saved (if anyone knows where I can get them, please let me know...I want to convert it back).  Lyle also swapped out the original 14x6 plain steel wheels and mag hubcaps for 14x6 Rally wheels from a junkyard Chevelle after one of the mag hubcaps was either stolen or came off while driving.  Other than those items, it's all original.  The AM radio works, it rides almost like a new car, steers beautifully with its original tie rod ends, ball joints, pitman arm, and has nearly all of its original parts...RC-15 radiator cap still holds pressure, its Delco "208" coil, spark plug wires, battery cables, untouched wiring, fuel pump, clutch and pressure plate, unturned brake drums, master brake cylinder, radiator with tag, one T-3 headlight, seats, door panels, headliner, seatbelts, carpet, dash panel, rear package shelf (which appears to be painted Frost Green), all Soft Ray glass (the windshield is scratch and chip free and still has its original blue-green tint...no fading).  Everything on it works...horn, wipers and washers, backup lights, all electricals.  The air cleaner has some surface rust, but still has most of its original paint, as well as a nearly perfect "250 Turbo-thrift" sticker and its side sticker ("Keep your GM car all GM").  The original timing sticker is still on the top of the radiator support (and is still highly legible).  In the trunk when I bought it was its original jack, the original rear shocks, the original radiator hoses and tower clamps, the original air pump (I installed it just to take photos...the only complete '69 6-cylinder air pump I have seen in the last 30 or so years), and the original spare wheel which is painted Frost Green (dated May 13th, 1969...the car was built 05E at Norwood...the spare is a BFG Silvertown F78-14 bias-ply dated 6-72...a replacement for a flat tire).  There are PTB stamps on both sides of the firewall...P and B are green, T is orange.

The car came with its Protect-o-plate, owner's manual (3rd version dated April '69), plastic documents envelope, a couple of '69 sales brochures, a '69 options booklet, '69 Nebraska tax receipt, '70 California registration, '71 Nebraska registration, several early receipts, a 1982 Nebraska state vehicle inspection sticker on the left side of the windshield, a 1971 Omaha city resident sticker on the right side of the windshield, a 1970 Nebraska National Football champions sticker inside the glovebox, a Misle Chevrolet dealer key ring, the original GM keys, a Misle Chevrolet metal dealer trunk emblem, an oil change sticker on the driver's door from 6-81 that shows 39k miles, a Phillips 66 oil change sticker on the upper left inside windshield that is dated 6-83 and shows 43,068 miles, and a couple of interesting matchbooks.  The Ohio title says "43,689 actual miles".  This is the most original 1st Gen Camaro I have ever owned.

 

« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 04:24:19 AM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2021, 03:00:13 AM »
First group of photos. Charlotte and Lyle are in the first pic. The car doesn't have its original "250" emblems...Charlotte liked it better without them...I put them back on.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 04:26:16 AM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2021, 03:04:15 AM »
2nd group of pics.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2021, 03:45:30 AM »
3rd group of photos. Note that the PBT stamps bear almost no resemblance to the ones guys put on their high dollar restorations (DOH!). It is hard to see, but there are 2 "B" stamps side-by-side near the bottom of the photo. They appear to be 2 slightly different shaped stamps, which doesn't make any sense. The stampings appear to be done with paint, not ink, and it looks like the inspectors used hardly any paint when they stamped the cars and barely touched the firewalls (just my 2 cents). I will post more photos of the stamps (I know you guys like photos). This car had 2 obvious body problems on the assembly line...a poorly fitting left door, and a fairly large blob of lead on the passenger side roof that was painted over by Fisher Body...those are the reasons I think this car spanned 2 shifts.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 05:12:23 AM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2021, 04:54:03 AM »
First photo is Charlotte's daughter Teresa with the car in 1974 or '75. It had been in a minor accident and the left fender was replaced (note that the new paint doesn't quite match). Shortly after this photo was taken, the car was keyed and the whole car repainted by H&H Chevrolet in Omaha. Charlotte had the pinstripes moved to the tops of the front and rear fenders because she thought they looked better that way. Note that in the 2nd and 3rd photos that the family has been shopping at K-Mart (remember them?). In the last photo is Charlotte's new '83 Camaro...the main reason that her '69 began 35 years of storage in a machine shed in Nebraska.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2021, 06:11:16 AM »
Ok...I've opened a can of worms with the PTB remarks and will post a couple of photos for your perusal. This is the second Camaro I have owned with 2 different colored PBT stamps (the first was my rusty '68 RS which is my avatar...and where I got my forum "handle").  I have heard that cars that crossed shifts usually had issues that couldn't be resolved by the close of the first shift, and that's what I think happened with this car.

The top group of photos show the bad lead job on the passenger side roof and the poorly fitting left door. Charlotte said the left door never looked quite right (it doesn't hug the body contour for the bottom 6 inches and leaves a noticeable gap when the door is closed), but it shut fine when it was new with no wind or water sealing issues. The repaint was done by H&H Chevrolet in Omaha and they said that repairing the door was more trouble than it was worth. They also painted over the lead blob on the roof, the same thing that Fisher Body did when the car was built (Charlotte didn't notice the failure to repair the blob until she and Lyle had moved to Chicago several months later...she was not happy about the poor workmanship). 

I don't have the world's best digital camera, but I think you can see that the P, B, and T stamps on the passenger and driver sides are different shapes. For example, the "T" under the cowl tag is much skinnier than the "T" above the heater box. This is also the same with the "B" above the heater box compared to the 2 "Bs" on the driver side (in fact, all 3 stamps appear to be different from each other...is it possible that 3 different body inspectors looked at this screwed up Camaro?).  Another thing I noticed is that the "P" above the heater box (only half of it was stamped and with more pressure than most of the other stamps) appears to be a slightly brighter green than the "B" on the same side.  Another thing I noticed is that all of the stamps are quite different than the stamps being sold by all of the big Camaro suppliers...note that the center holes in the "B" above the heater box are very large...the repop letters have much smaller centers. The stamps appear to be hand made...is this possible?

One other thing I noticed is that the green "P" on the driver's side is right next to what appears to be a portion of either an orange "T" or "P" (which also doesn't make any sense to me).  Also, the green paint on the driver's side looks a little darker than most green PBT stamps I've seen...like a medium green instead of a light green (this may be due to my aging eyes, or 52 year-old paint).  In fact, there appear to be paint shade differences in all of the green letters on this car...almost like all of the inspectors had slightly different green paint in their paint cans.  Note also that most of the letters are like outlines instead of solid letters like you always see on restored cars. Like I said...they don't look anything like what most guys think are "correct" PBT stamps (but on the flip side, why would anyone want stamps that looked like these on a restored show car).

Note the visible filing marks on the lead blob...you can tell that someone was trying to correct the issue (but probably gave up due to the fast moving assembly line). I am wondering if the Fisher Body guys decided that a low-optioned 6-cylinder wasn't worth the labor-intensive efforts necessary to correct its flaws and then sent it through the wall for the Chevy side of the plant to worry about.

Perhaps someone with a higher paygrade than mine can comment on these unusual stampings.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 07:12:17 AM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2021, 06:24:46 AM »
PBT stamps.

MO

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2021, 02:13:17 AM »
Fantastic! Great history!

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2021, 02:57:53 AM »
Thanks MO...much appreciated!  I hope to be able to bring the car to the Camaro Supernats next year in Ypsi, Mich.  Still not certain why that show was cancelled this summer...a real bummer.

I put my thinking cap on today and realized that the green firewall stamps are all the same shace of green...they appear to be different colors because they were all stamped with different amounts of pressure and paint.  Upon closer inspection they all appear to be the same shade of green.

If anyone is restoring a 6-cylinder '69 (if any others still exist...thank God most were converted over to more desirable V8s by smart owners), this car still has all of its correct clips, washers, and grommets and could be used as a reference.  Even the trunk bumpers are original...they appear to be different than the "correct" ones.  I will be glad to post pictures of anything on the car that anyone wants to see.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 03:29:58 AM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2021, 11:17:26 AM »
Thought I would post a few pics of the air pump. Its GM part number is 7801149 and it bears a Saginaw logo...it was built on day "119" (Apr. 29th). The diverter valve is stamped in black ink with a large "GB". The bracket that holds the pump was first sprayed with chassis black paint, then oversprayed with Chevy orange along with the rest of the engine. The pump dumps into a hose that feeds a one-way valve which supplies air to a plenum which feeds each individual cylinder via threaded fittings. A smaller hose with a white stripe supplies air to a vacuum fitting on the carb's base plate. In the third photo you can see a small bracket that keeps the green temp sensor wire from sitting on the hot engine.

Note the dust shields on the upper control arms...they are in perfect condition and still very pliable. The original paint in this engine compartment is nearly perfect...it still shines.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 01:08:16 PM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 11:28:45 AM »
The diverter valve's zinc finish is nearly perfect. The 7801149 pump has a white fan...the same one used on '69 Z28s. Note the plenum (called a "pipe" in the AIM) is tied into each individual cylinder via threaded fittings in the exhaust ports. A previous '69 6-cylinder 3-speed manual I owned had a crusty air pump in the trunk and was missing all of the other parts necessary for a manual trans equipped car. According to Kurt S only the manual trans '69 six bangers had the pump...the automatics had a setup called "CCS".
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 01:23:20 PM by 68SixBangerRS »

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2021, 01:18:58 PM »
Here are the appropriate pages from the AIM for those of you building a replica '69 six banger with a manual tranny (just think...you'll have something rarer than a ZL1!).  ::)

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2021, 03:46:16 PM »
You did it again! Another outstanding car. Congrats! Most would be fortunate to land one survivor in a lifetime. You have had several.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

BULLITT65

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2021, 10:35:44 PM »
You did it again! Another outstanding car. Congrats! Most would be fortunate to land one survivor in a lifetime. You have had several.
I agree. I hope you have been able to hold a few including the red one
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2021, 02:28:39 AM »
Bentley and Bullitt...very nice to be back on here and to be in touch with you fine gentlemen again.  I have had pretty good luck over the last 20-25 years finding Camaros that 19 guys out of 20 would've swapped to V8s.  I prefer rarity to running with the herd...I like showing up at shows with really rare cars and seeing the effect they have upon the spectators.

Unfortunately, I sold the ultra-rare red '69 with a 250 six and a Torque Drive trans exactly one year ago.  My wife has some very serious health issues that started 2 years ago and I was seeking to simplify my life by getting rid of most of my cars.  I gave my son Alex the choice of keeping "Cherry", or "Froggy" (our '70 6-cylinder).  He chose Froggy, which I will truthfully say is a much better driving car than a '69 Camaro with the identical drivetrain.  I will write about driving the '69 (now known as "Charlotte" after the original owner) very soon.  The Torque Drive '69 was quite frankly a pain-in-the-a** to drive...constantly shifting to high and low with the "manual automatic" and not getting much fun out of it...sluggish but acceptable acceleration (it could keep up with modern traffic if you kept it in 1st gear until reaching about 25-30 mph before shifting into 2nd).  It had also been completely restored (over-restored in my opinion) and the dash was gloss red, the engine compartment was gloss black, and it was loaded with repop garbage parts like gawd-awful door panels and a dash pad that was far from the correct shade of red.  My '70 was incredibly original and more fun to drive, so "Cherry" went to a new owner.

This car is absolutely unbelievably original...loaded with patina and character.  It moves out almost like a small V8...plenty of acceleration in 1st and 2nd gears (even 3rd is very torquey).  It feels like a much smaller car than the '70 (the '70's long hood is great to view while driving), and much airier with its more upright glass, taller roof, and higher seating position. It also feels much lighter and more nimble than the '70, but the '70 has more of a musclecar feeling than the '69.  The '69 feels more like a 3rd Gen Nova than a '70 Camaro, even though both are based around a 3rd Gen Nova floor pan and wheelbase.

This car is the one I have been looking for all these years (and never thought I would find).  The fact that it has been in my extended family for so many years makes it even more interesting and desirable to me.  It has everything...the most-collectible 1st Gen year, extremely rare drivetrain, provenance/paperwork, low miles, and basically untouched.  Time has been very kind to it, and I think it will gain value just as quickly as its V8 brothers (maybe even faster due to its rarity). 

If you guys want to see anything on the car, just let me know.  The main value in this car for CRG is that it probably provides a thorough look at a rare drivetrain, the same as the red Torque Drive car did.  There are not many original 6-cylinder early Camaros left, and I continue to see them destroyed with V8 swaps.  I believe there are enough V8 1st Gen Camaros already and that the few surviving sixes should be celebrated for their simplicity and rarity...and saved.