Interesting 1969 Z28

[Danzo]

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/camaro/2459941.html

[william]

Body tag is suspect.

[bcmiller]

Always be suspicious of 10 10 cars.

[KurtS]

124379N632049
It's had a repro tag for many years....

[firstgenaddict]

Always be suspicious of 10 10 cars.

ALWAYS...
PERSONALLY... I pretty much consider them all fakes until proven otherwise.

[Design Drive Motors]

Hey Guys!

I represent this car.  Unfortunately, the owner has no paper work on it.  I reached out to Jerry MacNeish, he has no info on it either.  I am trying to see if I can expedite the process from Muscle car docs.com as the web site says they will mail information out in 30 Days, so I asked them, and hope to get an answer on Monday, if they can email me results.  I reached out to Vintage Vehicle Services, they said its an American car, so no records before 1977.

I am in the European world of Classic and supercars, but this is a little different for me.  I would like to know as much as possible on this car.  Its strange because the drivetrain all lines up, I had Paul Cangialosi look at the trans numbers to verify they were all good, and he says its original, it has all the casting and build dates in order for the Diff(4.10 posi), Trans(m21), and engine.  Then the build date for the car as well.

So I am at a little bit of a loss as the car is very beautiful, and the numbers line up, as to why it would have a different tag on it?  It has been suggested it may just be for the color change.  The restoration is about 10 years old, so I just don't know why someone went to all that trouble on this car 10 to 15 years ago?  Any help or suggestions would be so helpful.  I don't own the car, but I do represent it.  I am just not interested in having my name tied to any type of deceiving, so being above board on all information is very important to me.

Thanks for any and all help.  If anyone has any more info on this car, please share.  You can PM me, or post here, I have nothing to hide.  I just want to get to the bottom of this.

[Kelley W King]

People were faking Z28,s way before 15 years ago. Maybe someone did it just for a color change on a real Z28. Nice car.

[69Z28-RS]

People were *faking* Z28's in the mid-70's....  and not just 'rarely', but OFTEN!    Of course the later fakes are 'better fakes', because more people know more now...

[Z282NV]

I am pleased to see the selling representative wanting to do the right thing here and get to the bottom of the issue.

I suggest if you can find evidence of a color change that could help. Other than that, if evidence does not surface and the validity of the trim tag is in question it would warrant a revision to the selling description. It is too bad that the sins of the past can catch up on us now as 10-10 cars do bring a premium.

[BillOhio]

Should the transmission vin and block vin be stamped with the same stamp?  I thought they should have been but wanted to ask. These dont look like they match

[Design Drive Motors]

Thanks guys, I will see if I can find any other evidence on the car as well, suggestions on where to look? 

The trans looked suspect as the stamping is not as straight as most of them out there. But I confirmed with Paul Cangialosi, and he said the trans was original. I found that the date codes on all the castings on the car lined up with all the build dates codes in order, and with the cars date code. The trans has a different casting date code on it than I have seen before, but on page 59 of his book, Paul shows a trans done the same way in mid 69.  It seems Muncie changed from a casting clock to a casting grid, they ended up with a grid of 12, but before they got to the full grid it seems they did a partial grid with 6 sections on it.  Thats what shows on page 59 of "Muncie 4-Speed Transmissions: How to Rebuild and Modify, transmission"

[Z282NV]

Thanks guys, I will see if I can find any other evidence on the car as well, suggestions on where to look? 

-behind the rear passenger seat back. May even see X7 crayon marking on passenger side.
-inside of door panel behind the door cards (front and back).
-inside of trunk, under the rear deck shelf.

[usa1ti]

If you really want to know. Remove the windshield cowl panel and look at, or clean with laquer thinner the hidden VIN underneath. Unless they have sand or media blasted the body it will reveal the original color overspray under the Dover White. Below is my code 52 Garnet Red.

[Design Drive Motors]

The panel with the wipers?  Remove wipers, remove screws, leave hood on?  What side is it on?  I will check if the owner wants to go that far. 

[Design Drive Motors]

Also, I did take out the rear seat, can someone point me to what all the codes mean?  It looks like a B?  or a D?  or at far stretch a circled X (but I don't think that's what it is)  Then 77.  I have seen people with different numbers and letters here, it seems hard to figure out what they all mean.  I looked inside the doors, all black, but may have been painted.  I didn't take the skins off but I could see into the inner "pillars" and as far as I can see, black.  I looked behind the trim cards in the back seat, one side may have a light blue, the other side looks like surface rust, the really old kind that has a bit of texture to it, but does not go deep into the panel.  I Found the Right rear fender was replaced at some point, and so I don't really trust the color of what's behind the right panel.  I looked behind the seat in the trunk, looks like bare metal.  There is brown there, but again, surface rust.  I took pictures, tried to get a good photo on the doors without removing the panels, because I can see it with my eye.  I tried to get good photos of the "77" under the glue, as well as good photos of the surface rust to understand I don't believe its paint.

Here is the link to the photos, I added descriptions to each picture, read through and give your thoughts. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/X1esMus5rnAtLArD8