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Author Topic: 1968 Rally Sport grille research  (Read 124862 times)
Steve68
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« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2006, 07:14:37 PM »

Ed

Those look like they have the, let see...... what's it called, integral built in washer?  If so I don't think they are like mine.  I will have to check and get back to you.  Mark, how about yours?

Steve
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Mark's 68 L78 RS SS
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« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2006, 08:53:45 PM »

Mine has a star washer under the nut.  My AIM is out in my getter so I am not sure what is correct.

Mark
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Mark
Skaneateles, NY
68 L78 RS SS M22
Steve68
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« Reply #137 on: November 10, 2006, 05:04:38 PM »

Ed & Mark

Mine also has a star (lock) washer under a regular nut like Mark's.  All of this part of the grille on my car is original.  The AIM I have does not show a lock washer though.  I have been thinking about the noted changes like the one in the above posts.
Quote
Far out!  I guess we have found a change in the actual manufacturing from the AIM inadvertently here as I know my set-up is definitely original.

Steve
The AIM parts were obviously changed from time to time as noted in the "Revision Record" section in the lower right hand corner of every page.  I don't know how many AIM versions are out there but we are always referring to it as if there is only one.  Is there, I'm not sure ...........the only way that I can see right now, to be sure we are comparing apples to apples, would be to state what page, drawing (DWG), DATE, and perhaps the REF (all 3 in lower left corner of page) when referring to something.  It could be that a later version/drawing called for screws/"u" nut and lock washer/nut vs what the page 424 DWG 6-14-67 DATE Rel. 6-16 AIM drawing shows.  Looking at some of the pages some of these parts got changed in a short periods of time.  So Ed's screws could be original and a change could have been made (supply problem...who knows) to the type Mark and I have.  Without an "updated" AIM how could you tell?  P&A's... maybe?

Question for you guys......ours cars are considered "late" models right?   So do you think that it is likely or not that there is the probability of part changes by the time of the manufacturing of our cars?  I think we are seeing some good evidence of such with the the "attachment hardware".  Kind of takes us full circle and back to the center grille question Smiley   

Steve
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 09:48:09 PM by Steve68 » Logged
KevinK
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« Reply #138 on: November 11, 2006, 10:23:03 PM »

...I guess I'm a little late on this  Wink
 
  1D
  2B ( ...really not 100% sure)
  3B
  4F
  5C (don't remember...)
  6C
 
    My car is a "04C" "NOR" built car.
 
   ...I'll have to pull the cover to get a look between the circles for any numbers...
 
  Kevin
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Rich
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« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2006, 08:56:14 PM »

I'm wondering if it isn't time to summarize where you are, and start a new thread (reference back to this one for anyone joing late).

I'm hoping I have a few minutes over the next few days to dig a little into the db and make some suggestions.  I haven't followed the last bit too closely, so what is the time period and specific type of car that you would still be looking for?

Rich
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68 L30/M20 RS
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« Reply #140 on: November 14, 2006, 05:02:49 PM »

There is a yenko.net member with a 68 RS/Z that was unrestored and did have the original grille in 1990.
Lives in CT... I have pics of the car before it was restored and it had the horizontal silver bars in the grille.
I just sent him an email with a link to the thread.

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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Steve68
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« Reply #141 on: November 14, 2006, 10:17:39 PM »

Thanks firstgen.  You have been very helpful on this project.  Look forward to getting a post from him.  We can use the data.

Steve
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Steve68
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« Reply #142 on: November 14, 2006, 10:25:56 PM »

A somewhat quick post on what we have to date, eliminating the most “uncertain” data, is a possible change between the 04A to 06A time frame.  We see, in the cavity mold area (between the circles) on the back (engine side)/driver side/upper side of the grille, some letters with numbers versus a single number.  Several of the survey participant’s cars appear to have original rivets attaching the center to the upper or lower grille providing a higher level of credibility toward originality.  With accessibility to, and visibility of, what is in the “between the circles” area, the observation/reporting of what is found along with the originality of the rivets so far shows the most promise of being used as a quick means for classifying a grille as pre or post change.  Additionally, we have also noted the use of and the mixing of 1967 and 1968 head light (HL) covers on these period vehicles.  The HL covers are important to us because they also can be original (chrome or black) and carry a year traceable part number.  Some of the HL covers don’t have a part number but do have a number.  That number seems to correlate to the driver or passenger side and so far looks to be a 1968 part.  The data so far shows the use of 67 black HL covers during this period.  We know for instance, of a 04A car with 68 HL covers on both sides, a 05D car with 67 HL covers being used on both sides, and a 06A car with a mix of 67/68 HL covers. All covers and grilles are black on these cars.  If chrome grilles were being used, then why would original black HL covers be on a car too?  One other apparent and interesting observation is that the attachment hardware on a couple of the cars appears to be original (know to be in one case) but is different than that shown in the AIM (pg 424, DWG 6-14-67, DATE REL. 6-16, UPC Z 22, A4).  We don’t have enough info at this time to tie any attachment changes that were made to any grille changes.  It begs the question though if changes were made in the grille, chrome to black, did they also change some of the attachments/hardware?  We do know the attachment changes noted so far are on cars with black grilles.  We have a mix of NOR and LOS cars in the survey with LOS cars being about 1/3 of the total. 

Some folks provided partial info and we could fill in some critical areas if we could reestablish contact with them.  I for one would like more data so we could be as definitive as possible on this.  Special thanks to all who went out of their way to provide data…we appreciate it!!

Steve
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bbd564
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« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2006, 08:50:48 AM »

There is a yenko.net member with a 68 RS/Z that was unrestored and did have the original grille in 1990.
Lives in CT... I have pics of the car before it was restored and it had the horizontal silver bars in the grille.
I just sent him an email with a link to the thread.



I own the car that James is referring to and would be happy to help if I can.

 First the bad news.  When I purchased this car in 2001 the original grille had been repainted all black and there was a damaged section so I replaced it with GM parts with silver applied to the horizonatal bars.  I gave the grille and trim pieces to a friend for his car and that car was subsequently sold so I do not have that grille to refer to. 

Now to the good news.  I have a photo of the car from 1990 showing the original grille with the silver horizonatal bars.  I can post that if that would help.  I also did a fair amount of research to recreate as close to possible the rivets that fasten the upper and lower trim pieces to the center grille and also the rivets that fasten the trim pieces to the headlight doors.  I believe I have some of these fasteners left over and if I can find them I can post photos, if anyone is interested and if my cheap camera will work.

Also if it is helpful I can dig up photos taken in 1968 of a family owned 68 RS SS 396/375 car showing the front grille. 

The Z is a Norwood built (July 68) car and the 396/375 car is a Norwood built (Oct/ Nov 67) car.
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Steve68
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« Reply #144 on: November 15, 2006, 06:56:23 PM »

bbd564

Thanks for the reply and the offer to help.  Grin  Questions regarding the Z: 1) Do you have any idea why the original grille was painted black when you bought it? 2) Were the original headlight (HL) covers still on the car and if so were they also painted black or did they have the horizontal chrome/silver bars showing? 3) Would you be kind enough to remove the HL covers ( 4 screws) from both sides and look for a part number or a number in the center back side of the covers and report back what you find? 4) If I understand you right the grille assembly had what you believe were original rivets holding the center grille to an original upper and lower grille....correct?  5) On the replacement grille, could you look on the back side, on the driver side, upper corner about an inch and a half down between the circles and see if you see any numbers? 6)Build date is 07 A,B,C, D ?

Any photos you can provide would be nice.  Would like to have the HL cover info from the L78 but I bet you don't still have it.    Sad     Don't want to over do it, if I haven't already, so will stop now.  Thanks for the input and help.

Steve
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bbd564
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« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2006, 07:06:41 PM »

1) Do you have any idea why the original grille was painted black when you bought it?  No idea

2) Were the original headlight (HL) covers still on the car and if so were they also painted black or did they have the horizontal chrome/silver bars showing?  Original HL covers still on the car and painted black.  I replaced with new GM parts with silver horizontal bars

3) Would you be kind enough to remove the HL covers ( 4 screws) from both sides and look for a part number or a number in the center back side of the covers and report back what you find?  I could but these are GM service replacement parts, so I don't think it would be helpful.

4) If I understand you right the grille assembly had what you believe were original rivets holding the center grille to an original upper and lower grille....correct? Yes, correct   

 5) On the replacement grille, could you look on the back side, on the driver side, upper corner about an inch and a half down between the circles and see if you see any numbers? 6)Build date is 07 A,B,C, D ?

I can't easily get to the car at the moment.  And again this would be a service replacement part

I am apparently out of room, will answer the remaining questions in another post






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bbd564
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« Reply #146 on: November 15, 2006, 07:08:55 PM »

Any photos you can provide would be nice.  Would like to have the HL cover info from the L78 but I bet you don't still have it.   

 L78 car is long gone from my ownership, but still exists
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bbd564
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« Reply #147 on: November 15, 2006, 07:14:15 PM »

Photo of 68 Z from 1990 included in link below

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=139266&Searchpage=8&Main=139147&Words=BillD&topic=&Search=true#Post139266

link brings you to the bottom of the post, scroll up to top and hit attachment for photo.

l78 photo will require me to find a scanner to get images from old photos
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 07:16:28 PM by bbd564 » Logged
Steve68
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« Reply #148 on: November 15, 2006, 07:23:27 PM »

Thanks.  The reason I ask for the info in #3 & #5 on the replacement parts is to help us ID or differentiate between originals and replacements.  So you gave the HL covers away too, I guess I was thinking you had cleaned them up and reused them.  Thanks again for the info.   Smiley

Steve
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Rich
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« Reply #149 on: November 20, 2006, 10:17:48 PM »

Steve:

I just took a rough inventory of the database with Z22 in this date range, and I'm going to guess those that appear to be both reasonably traceable, and with likely current owner contact info, aren't more than 15 or 20 in number.  I'd also guess that less than 10 would respond to an inquiry, and I'd also guess that you've already covered at least half of those in this thread.  That means an inquiry isn't likely to yield a flood of new data.

That said, every bit helps, and I'll send out a note to those people.  If not tomorrow, then next week when I get back from travel.  I'm wiped out tonight.

Later,

Rich
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68 L30/M20 RS
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