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Author Topic: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings  (Read 23175 times)
IZRSSS
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« on: January 18, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »

These are the fasteners I have on both the Catch & Plate. Problem is, I also have them in several other areas of the car, including the radiator support to fender & fender skirt. This makes me believe its more of a generic/univeral screw someone used when the car was restored. Does anyone know, or better yet, can you post a pic of the correct factory screw?

Note: If you all haven't guessed it by now, yup I am hung up on these darn things & forgive me! For you guys who aren't I promise to fact find only one fastener per week. If all goes well I should be done by the year 2022  Grin. If this is not okay, please PM me and I'll blow it off... Wink

{69 L48}

<edit - renamed thread - KS>
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 10:13:06 PM by KurtS » Logged
68Zproject
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 04:24:51 PM »

You and I are on the same page on these things, I don't know why people would be upset, that's what this site is for.  Unfortunately, different years.  Here's my upper (first two) and lower (last).  My bolts look like yours but have the RBW or whatever letters on them.  I'd have to get a mag glass to see them though.



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68Z28
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 05:33:50 PM »

Spring in upper photo should be black. I've seen variations in bolts used on untouched cars torn apart over the years. If you really want to be investigative, buy up the less expensive unmolested project cars, part them out if you want and resell the carcasses. They are out there.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 06:24:45 PM by Sauron327 » Logged
68camaroz28
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 05:51:49 PM »

I have gone through a lot of bolts/screws comparing head markings (originals) to the repros which do not match many times but we all know there were many suppliers. As you assumed Marty and I'm with ya, I have not noticed or remember that head marking on the bolt you posted so I will assume also they are not original.  Grin I have mine bagged but will have to dig through the finished and non-finished bolt bags to find. Memory tells me RBW was a predominant one.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 06:10:26 PM »

You and I are on the same page on these things, I don't know why people would be upset, that's what this site is for.  Unfortunately, different years.  Here's my upper (first two) and lower (last).  My bolts look like yours but have the RBW or whatever letters on them.  I'd have to get a mag glass to see them though.

No question about being on the same page. Iíve seen you attempt the same thing on other threads & itís been tough to say the least. Maybe if we stick together on this thing, enough interest will be generated to keep it going. We canít be the only two interested in this topic. Perhaps part of the problem is no one really wants to take a stand. Or maybe there just isnít enough information out there that everyone can agree on. On the other hand, there must be a consensus for fasteners or this portion of the Nationals concours judging would be none existant.
 
For me the most important part of my restoration project will be educating myself on every aspect of the í69 L48. This means reading, sorting data and building databases for everything; including fasteners. The other goal I have is to someday restore the car to a level conducive to concours level specifications. It is my understanding factory fasteners for shows like this are a must have, particularly for the Legend Class shows at the Nationals. If this is true than I would have to assume the same holds true for the upper level Bow Tie Classes. I say this because you cannot enter one without the other, right?
  
Trust me, I would much rather pay someone 50 Ė 125K to get my car ready for shows like that but guess whatÖI donít have that kind of money lying around. And, not to take anything away from the guys that charge that kind of money, but just thinking about whatís involved, thereís no question itís worth every penny!!! However, I think I would get a heck of a lot more more enjoyment tackling it myself.

Anyway, there you have it; my reasons for pestering about fasteners. For those of you whom are willing to help us out...kudos. And for those who are not, I understand completely.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 06:17:46 PM »

Spring in upper photo should be black. I've seen variations in bolts used on untouched cars torn apart over the years. If you are really want to be investigative, buy up the less expensive unmolested project cars, part them out if you want and resell the carcasses. They are out there.

I agree 100%. Pretty ironic but out of the blue a heck of a great guy offered me the same sort of opportunity today...I certainly hope he comes through!
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 06:19:14 PM »

I have gone through a lot of bolts/screws comparing head markings (originals) to the repros which do not match many times but we all know there were many suppliers. As you assumed Marty and I'm with ya, I have not noticed or remember that head marking on the bolt you posted so I will assume also they are not original.  Grin I have mine bagged but will have to dig through the finished and non-finished bolt bags to find. Memory tells me RBW was a predominant one.


Thanks Chick...appreciate the info.
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Mike S
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 06:35:01 PM »

I attached 2 images of the hood catch bolts. One is from a 67 (5B) NOR restored in the mid 80's and one is from an unrestored original 67 (4B) LOS car. The NOR hardware hasn't been 'oiled' in 14 years now.
The restored NOR car had all the hardware go back to each component it was used to mount during the restore process. I checked and found most of the bolts the same size within the engine bay had the same head markings as the hood catch bolts in each car.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
IZRSSS
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 08:19:22 PM »

Mike Ė Thanks for the pics. I sure would like to see more original/untouched fasteners like the one in your bottom pic. Can you make out what is printed on the head? My guess is something similar to 68Zproject's fasteners.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 09:58:56 PM »

Survivor car has or sure looks like a RBW bolt. There is no clear path for bolts/screws and it takes time. I know and appreciate as I'm restoring as you may know a 68 Z/28 and its taken just huge amounts of hours researching as so many of the small details are not in a book or bits and pieces of info are scattered among many resources. I will be glad to assist any way I can as this and any theads concerning bolts/screws are helpful in our restoration endeavor.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
Mike S
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 10:18:49 PM »

Hi Marty,

  I have the original car on a lift so I have to climb up to look at it. I don't mind though.
I cleaned the head on the LOS car and the markings are RBW in a semi cross hair. Interesting enough is that these exact RBW markings are on the other same size bolts used in the engine bay including the battery tray, the passenger side of the radiator mounting bracket, fender braces, horn mounting / hood strike assembly and the two front fender to inner tub bolts (5 on each side). BUT.....these bolts (not including the 4 hood catch in question) have a flat side on the inner and outer compared to the flat outer roud inner shape of the 4 catch bolts (see image of the LOS shroud bolt for the flat inner/outer).
 I'm on a roll....looking at the NOR car, same thing...same 'C' in a semi cross hair head markings used for the hood catch BUT the other bolts mentioned above in the engine bay and fender are exactly as the shroud bolt (see NOR shroud image), flat sides outer and roundish inner. The one exception are 2 fender to inner tub bolts which are flat inside and out and have only the letter 'E' as a marking.
  I suspect the fastener suppliers *may* be near the same geographic region as the assembly plants hence the difference markings. Just a guess.
I may have supplied more info than asked but I found this toipc interesting. Maybe head markings would be a good secondary topic.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
IZRSSS
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 10:48:30 PM »

Great pics Mike! There is no way you can supply more info than is asked. To say this is a complicated topic would be the understatement of the year; the more information the better!

I'd have to say we have a match for the í67 & í68. Your and 68Zprojects fasteners look identical (RBW). I'm pretty sure all that's lacking is to see if the part numbers from your AIMís line up. Please keep the rest of the information from your post handy. We'll pay that a visit real soon.  Wink

Any 69ís out there?  Undecided
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 10:50:49 PM »

Survivor car has or sure looks like a RBW bolt. There is no clear path for bolts/screws and it takes time. I know and appreciate as I'm restoring as you may know a 68 Z/28 and its taken just huge amounts of hours researching as so many of the small details are not in a book or bits and pieces of info are scattered among many resources. I will be glad to assist any way I can as this and any theads concerning bolts/screws are helpful in our restoration endeavor.

You've certainly been around the block a time or two...we can certainly use your help Chick! By any chance do you have a pic handy of the fastener you used?
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Marty
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 12:45:05 AM »

I bought my 68 LOS Camaro in 1990 and had to go throught this same thing. The front end was changed and hardware store fasteners were used. I made lots of trips to salvage yards and finally found all the correct fasteners for the sheetmetal. I also verified them from looking at original cars at Pomona and Long Beach swap meets. RBW and an anchor were seen in 67 and 68. More anchors in 67 and few in 68. In 69 I saw more of the C fasteners. This is mostly the bolts for the fenders to inner fenders, upper round braces, hood latches and radiator support. The bolts into the firewall are different. You need to spend time looking at the AIM and a car to see what part number goes where and how many you need. I have that for the 68 standard front end but it's probably not in a publish ready format.

Martin
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Martin Foltz
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68 Van Nuys Camaro
IZRSSS
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 08:41:46 AM »

Thanks Martin - You are absolutely correct about the bone yards. But my first plan is to get as familiar as I can with the different fasteners and their markings. I would like to know which ones are correct and which ones aren't in the car. Doing it this way will save time and gas.  Wink

My other dilemma is something Ed mentioned a while back; there were several suppliers for every fastener: which can only mean one thing; each First Gen could have had at least 3 different head-markings for each part number. I would like to know how many options (head-marks) I have for each part number. This would undoubtedly make my bone yard search much more productive.

Here is another question; since there were several suppliers and more than one head-mark per part number, could the screws on this hood latch catch and plate, have 3 or more head-markings? So far I haven't seen any for 69, but it would appear my options so far would be "C", "RBW", and the "Anchor".

Sure wish someone would recognize the screw in my first pic. I have these everywhere...from the Z21 front wheel moldings to the fender to fender skirts. including the hood latch assembly.

Man I wish Jerry M. would make an appearance and shed some light on how these issues are dealt with at the Nationals. Something tells me there's a little more leeway than one would think...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 09:25:04 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
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