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Author Topic: 69 Z28 RS for sale on Ebay.... whats wrong with this car  (Read 11834 times)
sam
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2010, 02:52:28 PM »

23 bidders and going strong! Alot of money for a Z/28 IMO.
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sdkar
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2010, 03:25:55 PM »

I was contacted by the owner of the car and he was upset that his Camaro was picked apart the way it was on this site.  He also explained that he typically does not deal with American cars (hence the Eurocars tag) but he thought the car was very nice and invested a lot of money to obtain the car and did not like our comments.  I explained that almost every comment, including my own, were us finding every little thing that was not perfect, but overall, everyone was just making light of a car that I am sure we all thought was extremely nice.  I explained that my comments on the lint and the smudge were complete fun and that I was being sarcastic as I had to find something wrong with the car as the car was really quite nice.  I assumed my sarcasm was obvious.  

I further explained that the missing caution fan sticker was an inside joke with many Camaro guys here.  He seemed to understand this and was happy that we were not really picking on his car but having fun, even if it was at his expense, but that is what many of us do here if asked our opinion.  He should see what we type when a car really is a bad restoration job and we are asked to give our opinions.   I think we can all agree here that the car was extremely nice and though things were found wrong, overall, they were quire minor.  In fact, I bet we would be just as equally critical of a Camaro that came off the assembly line and traveled through time to 2010 and popped up for us to review it.  

I told him that my comment on the car needing way too much work was, at least to me and I am sure most others here, blatant sarcasm.  I was trying to make the point that the car really needed very little work to be 100% correct that it was a joke to even mention the items it did need.  However, in our defense, we were invited to critique the car and we did.  If that is all that the combined efforts of all of us on CRG can come up with, well that car is pretty darn good in my book.  I wish that was all that was wrong with my Camaros, I would be thrilled.  If you put the Mona Lisa on display for a bunch of critics to review, you will get the same type of responses.  It doesn't mean the Mona Lisa is a bad painting, its what people do.

Also, his concern was that potential buyers would read this site and not buy the car.  So, if anyone would like to post a response and say what they like about the car and maybe give a comparison to the Camaros that we have seen out there, he would like that.  Maybe mention for any possible buyers who may read this post, what is good about the car and not what is bad.    

I finished up and stated that his car was very nice and he should be overall quite proud of it.  However, I did stick to my statement about the zip ties on the alternator harness and that he should spend the couple of dollars and get the correct "T" ties.  Anyway, it is a nice car, and I wish my 69 Camaros were half as nice and only had the items wrong with them that we listed above.  In fact, I'm never letting you guys judge my cars at all.  You guys are just plain mean.  
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jl8dale
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2010, 03:49:13 PM »

I agree that this type of discussion can lend a bad name to a particular car which is unfair to the seller. This is a restored car and therefore it will more than likely consist of many repro parts which as we all know, are not quite the same as originals. That is what is available unless you take 10 years of searching for NOS parts and pay ridiculous money for oil filters and weather stripping, etc. etc. Of course, when the day comes for you to sell your car, nobody wants to pay you for your NOS parts.

The car is what it is and when you restore a car, most people want to make it better than new. Better paint, nicer detail, and plated parts that resist rust rather than bare metal which is normally correct. Who wants to be a slave to their collection oiling up bare metal parts to stop your hobby/investment car from rusting.

That said, this car being a LA Z/28 should show proof of its heritage. Any high dollar car or claim to be numbers matching should back it up with stamp pictures and documentation to prove it.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
9T4Z
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2010, 04:35:03 PM »

The car was not 'unfairly' picked on. There was a bit of humor we understand, that others may not.  As far as having a car 'picked apart' we've all been there at some time. My first trip to the ACA Nationals was an 'eye opener' and my feelings were hurt. All the comments were constructive and I've learned from it.  That said, this is a very strong price for a vehicle without documentation. As far as the dollars required to make it 'concourse' it couldn't be done for less than $10K.  All of the NOS stuff is still available you just got to spend $$$. In this price range most purchasers would assume that 'concourse' would be correct or very close to it. I did not start the thread to 'hurt the vendor'. He suggested he might 'offer to correct all deficiencies, if he got his price. I really thought he may have underestimated what was involved. And remember this is just what the camera sees.  There are so many date coded items that cost thousands to collect.

Again the thread was not to offend, but to educate. I myself learned a lot and appreciate all the comments.
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Gary 9T4Z

94Z rag blower 491 rwhp (now 505!)
69 Pace Car, 70RS,91Z,91RS
dutch
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2010, 06:29:52 PM »

   In fact, I'm never letting you guys judge my cars at all.  You guys are just plain mean. 

If you think these guys at CRG are mean you should see how they regularily treat people and cars that aren't part of their clique over on the Yenko site!
This thread started over there would probbaly be up to ten pages long by now and getting nastier by the minute...

Randy
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427-KING
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 01:24:23 AM »

"23 bidders and going strong! Alot of money for a Z/28 IMO"..........................Hugger orange/ RS  is very appealing. The biggest thing I see wrong with the car is that ny name is not on the title.
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69z28302
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 06:46:18 AM »

First thing I saw which is a BIG heads up for me is Camaro is spelled wrong. It spelled Camero in the secondary title line in the ad.
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 08:52:12 AM »

I don,t think anyone was mean. They were just showing expertise in a hobby that they are serious about. Watching BJ a 69 came through at 70K or so and shortly later a very nice one came through at 1/2 that. My wife asked why and I told the first was real and correct and the second one probably was not. The important thing is to try get what you pay for and what you want. I paid more for for my 52,000 unrestored 69 L78 than I did for my frame off 69 Z28 RS even though the Z is very much nicer.
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69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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9T4Z
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 09:11:38 AM »

The seller and I exchanged e-mails again. I assured him that a search on Google would not bring up our comments because I did not cross reference the vin in my 'topic'. He is ok with the comments and says he is learning a great deal from this. It's all good.  Interesting though.... I did Google the vin. Seems the car was in Australia at some time! Camaro was spelled wrong in that ad also... sometimes it's done on purpose for those that can't spell... still gets the hit.

 Also if you check the bidders list, there appears to be more interest from bidders with no real buying history on ebay. The last I looked, a knowledgeable (I'm guessing from the number of previous bids) bidder, topped out at $66K. The second highest bidder appears to have some cash... bought Aston Martin parts... but the lead bidder has no history on EBay.... and has 18 bids in for the car. Don't often see that.
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Gary 9T4Z

94Z rag blower 491 rwhp (now 505!)
69 Pace Car, 70RS,91Z,91RS
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 09:28:07 AM »

The bid history also shows the lead bidder aggressively jacking up the price. You see this all the time...its called baiting. Its also suspect because as you mentioned, the bidder has no previous history...just an observation.

BTW, Gorgeous car
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tmodel66
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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2010, 11:03:24 AM »

It's just my opinion and they are like elbows. If you don't want your car picked apart don't include the word concourse in the title. I hope my car looks this good when I finish but I am building a driver and I know it won't be perfect.
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Daniel  
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 07:38:09 AM »

"23 bidders and going strong! Alot of money for a Z/28 IMO"..........................Hugger orange/ RS  is very appealing. The biggest thing I see wrong with the car is that ny name is not on the title.

I agree with that! Sometimes people write things in fun, etc. and it turns into a negative bash. Put one of your cars on here, members tear into it and see how any of us would feel. Sometimes it just gets out of hand. Guess its all in how its communicated. And do not get me wrong, I have been as guilty of this as anyone. Hey, a New Years resolution, yea!
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
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69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
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JohnZ
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 11:16:52 AM »

<<
If you don't want your car picked apart don't include the word concourse in the title.
>>

Even the word "concourse" is wrong - you find "concourses" in airports. The correct word is "concours", as in "concours d'elegance".
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 12:20:01 PM »

Fa-la-la-la-la...la-la-la-la... Grin
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sdkar
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« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2010, 04:23:26 PM »

Is it bashing or constructive criticism.  Is it being mean or just showing off our vast knowledge of info of the Camaro.  Either way, no one here should change a thing on what they do or say.  We are being true to ourselves.  Each and everyone here has learned what is right and wrong with their Camaros by hearing those horrible words "that's wrong".  It's how we learn...by failure and hurt feelings.  The desire to correct our mistakes and do better.  This would never happen if we didn't get our feelings hurt from time to time. 

Regardless of how hurt the owner of the car was in reading the items listed above, humor aside, all of it was correct.  This way, the owner will learn and his next Camaro will be better for it as he now knows what Camaro enthusiasts look at and what makes a Camaro a GOOD Camaro.  Otherwise, if we don't pick apart and stay true to our knowledge, this imporatant information will get diluted and ten years from now, the term "all original" will have a different meaning.  So, its important to stay true and if we are invited to critique a car, we will to the best of our abilities and no matter how small the detail.  Close is close and right is right.  And if we decide to have some fun as well, as we did, well that is what its all about...having fun too.  No one here wants anyone to break down and cry as a result of our opinions, but we do want the truth known and if someone is going to make a claim that their Camaro is perfect, we will be there to let them know its not.  We are honest and that is a good thing.  If someone doesn't like what we say, then they need to put on their big boy overalls and get over it.  We are here for the Camaros...not anyone's self esteem.   

So, no one needs to change a single way they comment on any topic here.  It is this freedom that has made this site great and that needs to continue. 

I am still not letting any of you cold hearted cretins judge my car though.  I have judged it myself and there ain't a thing here anyone could say to me that I already don't know is wrong with it.  It's not perfect...just like me.

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