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Author Topic: N/66 option phase-out for 1969 Camaro production  (Read 6392 times)
nuch_ss396
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« on: July 21, 2007, 05:58:01 PM »

Can anyone tell me the approximate, or actual date the N/66 "Sport Wheel" option was cancelled?  According to Jerry MacNeish, it was only available from Sept '68 to
Jan '69.  I've seen a number of SS Camaros with post 1/69 builds and the owners claim the N/66 wheels were original to the build.  Jerry, if you're here - chime in please.

Even though the N/66 option was cancelled, could someone still get the N/66 wheels put on their car ( by the dealer ) prior to deliverey?  Are there any "documented"
cases of known N/66 equipped Camaros with post 1/69 builds? 

Steve
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69 SS 396, Hugger Orange, D/80, D/90
Chambered Exhaust, N/66, THM400, 3:73 posi

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KurtS
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2007, 12:35:06 AM »

It was not on the 12/68 order sheet and no later cars have been documented.
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Kurt S
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nuch_ss396
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2007, 11:42:07 AM »

So Kurt,

Should I then infer that any post 1/69 Camaro's with N/66 were basically owner installed? 

I've gotten into some interesting exchanges with SS Camaro owners over this subject in the past. 

Clarification please:  "no later cars have been documented"  - Does this take into account dealer installed N/66 wheels, or just RPO's?  Do dealer installed N/66 wheels
count anyway?

Steve
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69 SS 396, Hugger Orange, D/80, D/90
Chambered Exhaust, N/66, THM400, 3:73 posi

Steve A.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2007, 06:54:08 PM »

Steve,

I'll have to check but I think the latest car that I documented with these was a Dec built car.  If you're restoring a car and it was built after Jan, I would not use these wheels unless you don't care about technical correctness.

Jerry
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nuch_ss396
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2007, 07:44:06 PM »

Jerry,

Do you happen to know exactly when in Dec. that car ( the one you're referring to ) was built?

I am considering the restoration, and about correctness, you know my response to that. Grin

BTW, as a Judge, where do you stand on "documented" dealer installed options ( eg. N/66, D/80, hood pins, etc. )?
Let's say someone purchased a '69 SS off the lot and wanted to add spoilers or the N/66 Sport Wheels.  If the owner
has paperwork that shows that the dealer installed these options prior to delivery ( to the customer ), would you
accept them as "documented"?  Just wondering....

Steve
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69 SS 396, Hugger Orange, D/80, D/90
Chambered Exhaust, N/66, THM400, 3:73 posi

Steve A.
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KurtS
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 12:59:07 AM »

Documented via factory documents.
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Kurt S
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JohnZ
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 10:09:21 AM »

I don't know what the Camaro judging standard is, but the published NCRS Corvette judging standard specifically excludes any dealer-installed (or removed) items:

"Cars are to be judged to the standard of vehicle appearance, and as equipped, at the time and point of final assembly by the Chevrolet Motor Division of General Motors Corporation. Presentation for judging is to be in the condition normally associated with that of a Corvette which has undergone the then-current standard Chevrolet Dealer New Car Preparation for delivery to the purchaser, exclusive of any dealer- or purchaser-inspired additions, deletions, or changes."

For instance, if a Corvette has a dealer-installed luggage rack, there is no deduction for the presence of the rack, but there IS a deduction for the alteration to the body to install it (the holes drilled in the body panel).
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nuch_ss396
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2007, 07:34:30 PM »

John,

I can understand that.  So, how do all the Supercars fare in judging?  They are all dealer modified Grin

Do they judge Yenko's, Dana's, B-M's, Harrel's, etc. in a different way?

Steve
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69 SS 396, Hugger Orange, D/80, D/90
Chambered Exhaust, N/66, THM400, 3:73 posi

Steve A.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 06:38:04 AM »

John's answer about Corvette judging is the same as Camaro.  The cars have to be restored to the way they left the plant.  No add ons, if you add them, there are points taken off.  Many like to install that engine mount recall kit.  If we see one on a car, there is a point deduction.  If you add spoilers and they were not factory installed, there will be a point deduction.

If you have the window sticker to the vehicle or dealer invoice, the car must match in every option.

Jerry
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rat pack
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 09:43:39 AM »

Jerry,  do you deduct points for a non-original (but correct) engine, trans, rear axle, or other component if the guy has documentation it was replaced under warranty by the dealer?...............RatPack................
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JohnZ
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 08:15:55 PM »

Jerry,  do you deduct points for a non-original (but correct) engine, trans, rear axle, or other component if the guy has documentation it was replaced under warranty by the dealer?...............RatPack................

In Corvette judging, the components must be those that were in the car when it left the plant; warranty replacements, "CE" blocks, etc. get deductions. As an extreme, Corvettes that were ordered with Special Paint in prime (which shows on the trim tag) must be presented for judging in prime or they get a total deduction for paint.
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'69 Z/28
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 08:34:13 PM »

If you have the paperwork from the dealer stating the engine change, that is the only time that you will be allowed credit on a CE engine.  In any other cases, you are always better off with a dated correct engine or restoration engine.

Jerry
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2007, 01:18:48 AM »

John's answer about Corvette judging is the same as Camaro.  The cars have to be restored to the way they left the plant.  No add ons, if you add them, there are points taken off.  Many like to install that engine mount recall kit.  If we see one on a car, there is a point deduction.  If you add spoilers and they were not factory installed, there will be a point deduction.

If you have the window sticker to the vehicle or dealer invoice, the car must match in every option.

Jerry

Just so I understand.  how do judges deal with cars that do not have documentation?  For example, does a car have to have a D-80 on the trim tag to have spoilers even though not every car equipped with a spoiler had the D-80 on the trim tag (like LA cars)?   I'm a realist, many more cars now exist with spoilers and cowl hoods than ever left the factory (very popular add on through the ages) but, just as grounded in reality, that doesn't mean that every car that has a spoiler and lacks documentation didn't leave the factory that way...so how do judges cope with such items when judging?
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Charley
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 08:52:41 AM »

I would hope that owners of cars that were modified at the dealer when new and had paperwork to back it up would not be penalized points for leaving those items on. If they get docked points and start removing the dealer installed items for the sake of judging we are losing a cool part of the cars history. There ought to be a way to encourage owners to preserve how they left the lot.
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paceme
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 03:27:09 PM »

John's answer about Corvette judging is the same as Camaro.  The cars have to be restored to the way they left the plant.  No add ons, if you add them, there are points taken off.  Many like to install that engine mount recall kit.  If we see one on a car, there is a point deduction.  If you add spoilers and they were not factory installed, there will be a point deduction.

If you have the window sticker to the vehicle or dealer invoice, the car must match in every option.

Jerry

Just so I understand.  how do judges deal with cars that do not have documentation?  For example, does a car have to have a D-80 on the trim tag to have spoilers even though not every car equipped with a spoiler had the D-80 on the trim tag (like LA cars)?   I'm a realist, many more cars now exist with spoilers and cowl hoods than ever left the factory (very popular add on through the ages) but, just as grounded in reality, that doesn't mean that every car that has a spoiler and lacks documentation didn't leave the factory that way...so how do judges cope with such items when judging?

In the case above with the N66 wheels, the car would have to be built in the time period the option was available first. Also the installation of the option would have to be identical to factory. In the case of cowl induction hood the relay, hole above fuse box and accelerator linkage would be check proper location and originality of components.

Regarding the dealer installed items. That opens up a can of worms itself, for instance was this item an RPO or over the counter. My take is that over the counter items were NOT a factory item ( RPO) and shouldn't be considered in a" Original Judged Class/Factory Born Class".  If the option that was added was an available option during that cars build period, and  they have real verifiable documentation that the deal installed it fron new,then I feel some consideration should be given.

If I owned a car with over the counter items and accessories, I would have it judged without first and then add the option or accessory as I see fit. This is only my opinion, and also feel the more exceptions made,  the more diluted judging becomes.
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Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
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