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Author Topic: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros  (Read 14795 times)
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 02:21:46 PM »

i have stated this before, but here it is again.   my family owned and operated a chevy dealership for many years, and i asked my father about this, jerry has met my dad so he knows i am not making this up. he told me those damn things washed off the first time you cleaned up the car for PDI.  not really paint probably some water based stamp. they are very seldom seen in real life just another goofy bull thing like the fan sticker stated above.

Well, I might have agreed with you before I went out to my car and checked ...  Smiley    (Personally I hate to see those 'unknown' paint marks all over a freshly restored car..  my theory is that NO ONE knows what many of them mean, and most restorers are simnply following the 'monkey see' monkey do' rule..  Smiley

Anyway, after seeing some info here and on TC about the PTB mark, I was examining my firewall one night a week or two ago, and sure enough, I saw a faint PBT (in green) just above and to the right of my brake booster...    I took a photo of it, but don't have it where I can post it right now.   Note:  I bought my '69 Z28 (norwood car) in 1976.  It has sat in my garage undriven (*un-anything) since 1980.  It has never been restored....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 02:46:51 PM by 69Z28-RS » Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 02:45:53 PM »

Maybe this will work.   i put the image on photobucket...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2008, 02:49:48 PM »

..  and now my question is..  What does it mean?Huh   
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
1968RSZ28
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2008, 03:20:00 PM »

..  and now my question is..  What does it mean?Huh  

P = Paint
B = Body
T = Trim

Paul

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Dave69x33
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2008, 08:55:35 PM »

Here are a few more pics of PBT stamps taken on unrestored cars I have run across. 
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2008, 09:09:14 PM »

Sorry...pulled the trigger before the pics were attached...

These happen to be two different 69 Pace Cars, one is an 03D build date, the other an 05A.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2008, 12:57:09 AM »

So when were the P T and B marks put on?  and why?  they must have been applied at different times by different people?  after QA inspection of those areas?  or ?    and why would the cars be marked on both sides of the firewall?   
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 08:35:00 AM »

These letters were stamped before the front feners were installed.  They were for paint, body and trim inspection at Norwood.  The different colors desiganted a different inspector.  In 1967, the PTB's can also be behind the front fender.  On Ben Wenzel's 1967 Z28, there is an old article from the late 60s' showing his engine bay and you can see the stamps clear as a bell.

Jerry
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paceme
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 08:36:07 AM »

So when were the P T and B marks put on?  and why?  they must have been applied at different times by different people?  after QA inspection of those areas?  or ?    and why would the cars be marked on both sides of the firewall?   

There were two inspectors (one on each side car) applying the stamps as it finished that operation in the assembly process. There are paint daubs through out the car that represent inspection and or confirmation that a component is torqued or installation complete.  
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Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
JohnZ
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 11:15:42 AM »

Those are Fisher Body inspection stamps, indicating final "OK" buyoff for body, paint, and trim, just before the painted and trimmed body shell went "through the wall" to Chevrolet.
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'69 Z/28
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2008, 03:46:26 PM »

Thanks guys!   Smiley     Reading all the new info on my Camaro on this site and TC has enthused me to begin working on my Z28 again (it's been 'waiting' since 1981)...
JohnZ:  NCRS is just gonna have to wait a while to get to judge that black '72 Corvette coupe I bought last year at Carlisle ...  Smiley .. you know.  the one with the wing and flares?  Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 03:51:40 PM by 69Z28-RS » Logged

Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
sixt9x33rs
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« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2008, 09:12:26 PM »

PTB's on my 69 Z/28
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'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
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69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles
Jon Mello
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2008, 12:42:13 AM »

I don't recall where I heard it but I was told the stamps in orange were done on the day shift and the ones in green are the night shift. I've got no idea whether that is fact or fiction but is seems possible.

-Jon
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Jon Mello
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2008, 12:59:55 PM »

It was my understanding that the color designated the inspector's ID, not day or night shift.  L. Price was involved in the QC processes back then at Norwood.

Jerry
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JohnZ
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2008, 10:56:29 AM »

It was my understanding that the color designated the inspector's ID, not day or night shift.  L. Price was involved in the QC processes back then at Norwood.

Jerry

Could well be. The final buyoff inspector on the Fisher side had a paper punch with an initial or number that he used on the body's inspection ticket (which tied his ID to that particular body), and he then stamped the firewall to show that the body had passed inspection. The individual inspection tickets with the inspection and repair punches were kept for 30 days, then trashed.

Chevrolet did the same thing on their side - inspectors had punches with initials or unique symbols to ID them, and repairmen had punches with numbers; when zone inspections were complete at the end of the line, the completed tickets were pulled, and the final inspector punched a 1" x 1" square adhesive tag and stuck it on the inside of the windshield to indicate final buyoff for that zone. A completed car ready to ship would have four stickers - "M" for mechanical, "P" for paint, "B" for body, and "RT" for roll-test. If you look closely at the photo below (early 60's Chevy II at Willow Run), you can see the stickers inside the windshield.
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