Author Topic: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros  (Read 50425 times)

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 07:21:46 PM »
i have stated this before, but here it is again.   my family owned and operated a chevy dealership for many years, and i asked my father about this, jerry has met my dad so he knows i am not making this up. he told me those damn things washed off the first time you cleaned up the car for PDI.  not really paint probably some water based stamp. they are very seldom seen in real life just another goofy bull thing like the fan sticker stated above.

Well, I might have agreed with you before I went out to my car and checked ...  :)    (Personally I hate to see those 'unknown' paint marks all over a freshly restored car..  my theory is that NO ONE knows what many of them mean, and most restorers are simnply following the 'monkey see' monkey do' rule..  :)

Anyway, after seeing some info here and on TC about the PTB mark, I was examining my firewall one night a week or two ago, and sure enough, I saw a faint PBT (in green) just above and to the right of my brake booster...    I took a photo of it, but don't have it where I can post it right now.   Note:  I bought my '69 Z28 (norwood car) in 1976.  It has sat in my garage undriven (*un-anything) since 1980.  It has never been restored....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 07:46:51 PM by 69Z28-RS »
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 07:45:53 PM »
Maybe this will work.   i put the image on photobucket...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2008, 07:49:48 PM »
..  and now my question is..  What does it mean????   
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

1968RSZ28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6188
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2008, 08:20:00 PM »
..  and now my question is..  What does it mean????  

P = Paint
B = Body
T = Trim

Paul


Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2008, 01:55:35 AM »
Here are a few more pics of PBT stamps taken on unrestored cars I have run across. 

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2008, 02:09:14 AM »
Sorry...pulled the trigger before the pics were attached...

These happen to be two different 69 Pace Cars, one is an 03D build date, the other an 05A.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2008, 05:57:09 AM »
So when were the P T and B marks put on?  and why?  they must have been applied at different times by different people?  after QA inspection of those areas?  or ?    and why would the cars be marked on both sides of the firewall?   
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Jerry@CHP

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1512
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 01:35:00 PM »
These letters were stamped before the front feners were installed.  They were for paint, body and trim inspection at Norwood.  The different colors desiganted a different inspector.  In 1967, the PTB's can also be behind the front fender.  On Ben Wenzel's 1967 Z28, there is an old article from the late 60s' showing his engine bay and you can see the stamps clear as a bell.

Jerry

Steve Shauger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
    • View Profile
    • Vintage Certification
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 01:36:07 PM »
So when were the P T and B marks put on?  and why?  they must have been applied at different times by different people?  after QA inspection of those areas?  or ?    and why would the cars be marked on both sides of the firewall?   

There were two inspectors (one on each side car) applying the stamps as it finished that operation in the assembly process. There are paint daubs through out the car that represent inspection and or confirmation that a component is torqued or installation complete.  
Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles.  The Supercar Registry-www.yenko.net-

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 04:15:42 PM »
Those are Fisher Body inspection stamps, indicating final "OK" buyoff for body, paint, and trim, just before the painted and trimmed body shell went "through the wall" to Chevrolet.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2008, 08:46:26 PM »
Thanks guys!   :)     Reading all the new info on my Camaro on this site and TC has enthused me to begin working on my Z28 again (it's been 'waiting' since 1981)...
JohnZ:  NCRS is just gonna have to wait a while to get to judge that black '72 Corvette coupe I bought last year at Carlisle ...  :) .. you know.  the one with the wing and flares?  :) :)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 08:51:40 PM by 69Z28-RS »
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

sixt9x33rs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2008, 02:12:26 AM »
PTB's on my 69 Z/28
'69 RS Z/28 65B, 711 Flat hood no spoiler, endura, 4:10 43K miles
69 X77 Z/28 69 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored (Sold)
'69 X66 Convertible 69B 712 auto, (Sold) 44K miles

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4413
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2008, 05:42:13 AM »
I don't recall where I heard it but I was told the stamps in orange were done on the day shift and the ones in green are the night shift. I've got no idea whether that is fact or fiction but is seems possible.

-Jon
Jon Mello
CRG

Jerry@CHP

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1512
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2008, 05:59:55 PM »
It was my understanding that the color designated the inspector's ID, not day or night shift.  L. Price was involved in the QC processes back then at Norwood.

Jerry

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
    • View Profile
Re: PTB on Los Angeles Camaros
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2008, 03:56:29 PM »
It was my understanding that the color designated the inspector's ID, not day or night shift.  L. Price was involved in the QC processes back then at Norwood.

Jerry

Could well be. The final buyoff inspector on the Fisher side had a paper punch with an initial or number that he used on the body's inspection ticket (which tied his ID to that particular body), and he then stamped the firewall to show that the body had passed inspection. The individual inspection tickets with the inspection and repair punches were kept for 30 days, then trashed.

Chevrolet did the same thing on their side - inspectors had punches with initials or unique symbols to ID them, and repairmen had punches with numbers; when zone inspections were complete at the end of the line, the completed tickets were pulled, and the final inspector punched a 1" x 1" square adhesive tag and stuck it on the inside of the windshield to indicate final buyoff for that zone. A completed car ready to ship would have four stickers - "M" for mechanical, "P" for paint, "B" for body, and "RT" for roll-test. If you look closely at the photo below (early 60's Chevy II at Willow Run), you can see the stickers inside the windshield.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG