Author Topic: Dealer number  (Read 5141 times)

bertfam

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 05:54:30 PM »
Guys, the information is coming from GENERAL MOTORS records, not the NCRS. The NCRS is merely performing the service. If the information on the Shipping Data Report is incorrect, blame GM, not NCRS. And it's not the NCRS job to "correct" GM documentation. To the contrary, they have no ability to do that. They can only go by what's on the microfiche.

Ed
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69Z28-RS

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 05:14:52 AM »
They are reading VERY OLD microfiche (or punched cards is what I had understood).   When I did mine, the first letter came with the 'wrong numbers' since I knew where the car originated... When I informed the responsible party of what I knew and the dealer/zone numbers I believed to be correct, they manually checked the card and found it was 'damaged' and the machine had read it incorrectly...  I ultimately did get a corrected report.

Since that time, the *person* handling these has changed, and perhaps the volume has picked up to the point they can't give as good a personal service I received...?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

jcihos

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2018, 02:28:18 PM »
Guys, the information is coming from GENERAL MOTORS records, not the NCRS. The NCRS is merely performing the service. If the information on the Shipping Data Report is incorrect, blame GM, not NCRS. And it's not the NCRS job to "correct" GM documentation. To the contrary, they have no ability to do that. They can only go by what's on the microfiche.

Ed

I agree Ed that records did come from GM. What is frustrating though is that I am receiving different answers depending on who I talk to over there. I have been told by one person that the dealer in question did exist and that they have a record of it. Talking to another person their record isn't enough to correct the shipping report.

bertfam

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 02:34:36 PM »
I've asked Roy to comment. He no longer does it but he knows the procedure and how it's being handled now.

Ed
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paceme

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 08:10:35 PM »
I've had a couple of issues: my Pace Car had some obscure dealer (Max Meyers Motors)in IN listed. The original owners son recalled it being sold at McManus Chev, in Chicago. I later found a window sticker for a car built same time frame, same zone and dealer code and McManus was listed. Yes the microfiche was read incorrectly.

I've also had a report with zone and dealer code "but no further info available". I did a lot of research and found the dealer info and provided it to them and they update.

I found the service they provide excellent and very accommodating.
Steve Shauger
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bertfam

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 03:26:47 PM »
Okay, I contacted Roy and here's his reply (He's in Arizona at the auction so he asked me to post it for him). I'm paraphrasing and added the URL links, but you should get the gist.

Quote
The NCRS ONLINE DATABASE is created by whoever wants to input data, there is no secondary confirmation of it.
 
The NCRS SHIPPING REPORT data is created from a combination of GM shipping data records and GM dealer directories, neither are complete perfect snap shots of the mid sixties to mid seventies. Itís unfortunate, they just are not. One record contains a zone and dealer number. The other is a dealer directory for a given time period.
 
Those records require translation. Donít forget you are getting a digitized microfiche translation that is at best poor and can easily be miss read.
 
Throw several major facts into this melting pot and you have a recipe for disaster:
 
First - Every Time GM had a upper management change they restructured the Zones. Dealer names were assigned alphabetically within the zone until a zone change happened. Then it became ALMOST alphabetically unless there was a duplicate number from a previous zone merged with its duplicate from the new zone. In that case all bets are the most reasonable next number got used. In addition, many Dealers had multiple dealer numbers. You also have to take into account dealer ownership changes. In that case it works both ways. Sometimes the dealer number changed sometimes it did not.

Second - I would venture to guess as much as 75% of the existing paperwork out there is bad, and less than 2% of the people understand that.
 
Third - Dealer trades are not tracked by any of this data.
 
Finally - GM did not keep good records.
 
NCRS can update the GM records, because frankly GM would not have them if not for the work a few of us expended back in the 2003-2010 time frame, but they will not, and should not make those corrections or changes without bullet proof documentation of the claim.

Thanks Roy!

Ed
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:34:21 PM by bertfam »
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Pacecar

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 04:20:05 PM »
I also encountered a couple of questionable NCRS reports.  On  one car, the dealer on the NCRS form did not match the dealer on the Protecto-Plate. On the other car, the dealer was given as being 125 miles away from the original owner. Car with owner history, no paperwork.

Mike S

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 04:44:17 PM »
  I am in the process of having NCRS sort out errors on a report for my '67 LOS car I received this week.
It has the correct dealer name (Kelsey & Sons Chevrolet, Solvang, CA) but on the report the dealer code doesn't match what is in their (NCRS) DB and they have the dealer location printed as Solvang, New York.
  The car was bought from the original owner in Solvang California.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

Mike S

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 05:03:59 PM »
With fruit aside, looking up Kelsey & Sons dealer code in the NCRS DB does not match what the report dealer code shows so there is an error either in interpreting the micro film or the DB has mis-information. Regardless, for $50 I expect accurate info., where possible, and it will also give them the opportunity to correct the DB, if needed.
Also, there is no Solvang, New York.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

Mike S

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 05:31:18 PM »
 The service is helping, IMO, and should remain available. But, like all services offered there are bound to be glitches that need to be resolved.
My first report for the 67 NOR was accurate. The recent 67 LOS report had a red flag when it stated 'Solvang, NY' instead of 'Solvang, Ca'. Further checking uncovered a discrepancy with the dealer code listed in the report showing a different dealer name in their DB. That's when I began to research further. I opened a help ticket with them and they responded it was going to be checked.

Mike
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:52:06 PM by Mike S »
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

69Z28-RS

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 05:36:57 PM »
Ed,

Several of us have mentioned issues or problems experienced, but was done from the standpoint of pointing out what might be experienced, and potentially corrected, from the report...

I haven't heard anyone complain about it being so bad it should be 'terminated'...  It was worth the $50 to me just to confirm the information I already *believed* I knew...  ie.  the dealer and the production date... and it did (after the initial error with the bad microfiche was corrected)...

Gary
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

jcihos

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 01:34:04 PM »
Mike from what I am told the online DB cannot be counted on for accuracy since anyone can put entries in there. So I can see why they wouldn't correct off of that. My issue was that one of the admins from the Corvette side was able to find record of my zone and dealer number but the Camaro side will not correct the report.

Gary I agree that this can be a very helpful tool also and that it should not be terminated. I like you am looking for confirmation of what I have been told by the original owner. All records that anyone has found points to the correct dealer being Ned Gates Chevrolet.

X33RS

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 02:23:46 PM »
I can only wish I had the kind of problems you guys are having.  At least I'd have something to go on, lol.   My car falls into that "no information available" category with NCRS. 

Mike S

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 09:20:21 PM »
 As an update, NCRS sent me a revised report after they researched again. The dealer code was the same as before, so their on-line DB is not accurate vs. the microfiche, but they correct the state it was sold in (changed NY to CA).
The report reads the selling dealer as Kelsey & Sons Chevrolet, Solvang Ca. Dealer code 267 , zone 34
Interesting was the UOIT has an April 13, 1967 date and the reports production date is April 18th.
Is that 5 day spread from the time the car build began to when it was finished, parked in a lot and then left the grounds for delivery?

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

z28z11

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Re: Dealer number
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 09:35:17 PM »
I can only wish I had the kind of problems you guys are having.  At least I'd have something to go on, lol.   My car falls into that "no information available" category with NCRS. 

Yeah, me too for one of mine. Pace Car came through but the L78 BB was in the Dead Zone. Aggravating, after getting my hopes up (that it might be a Nickey as it came out of Chicago/Illinois area according to old registrations included with the car). At east it has the original 500 lb. POP with it -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06