Author Topic: How to tell if console gauges are original to car  (Read 11269 times)

6672DRIVER

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« on: May 31, 2016, 03:24:23 AM »
Recently purchased a '69 RS/SS original 350 engine with automatic trans (not original).
I have no documentation on the car, and would like to determine if the car would have come with factory console gauges or not. It currently does have the console gauges.
What should I be looking for?

Gary
'69 RS/SS Lemans Blue

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 03:52:11 AM »
I had a discussion about this recently with William and learned a couple of interesting things.
   I was told the oil line location through the firewall is a biggy.   Usually never put in the right spot with the correct rubber grommet when gauges are added.

   I'd also be looking close at the wiring harness.  Factory gauge cars, like mine, and as I've been told by a couple of smart people here, should have cloth covering on both coil wires.  An odd clue I had not heard until recently. Reproduction wire harnesses don't come with it.....I tried.    I'd be crawling under the dash as well and checking the console and dash harness connections for obvious monkey business.
Of course as everyone knows it should have a clock as well, so many conversions done without.

Fred Mertz

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 04:24:03 AM »
I believe that if the console guages are factory you should have a clock in the instrument cluster in the center just above the steering column.

ZLP955

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2186
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 09:43:32 AM »
Firewall penetration location for the oil line seems to vary between LOS and NOR, worth pointing out.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

TRLAND

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 05:20:01 PM »
I had a discussion about this recently with William and learned a couple of interesting things.
   I was told the oil line location through the firewall is a biggy.   Usually never put in the right spot with the correct rubber grommet when gauges are added.

   I'd also be looking close at the wiring harness.  Factory gauge cars, like mine, and as I've been told by a couple of smart people here, should have cloth covering on both coil wires.  An odd clue I had not heard until recently. Reproduction wire harnesses don't come with it.....I tried.    I'd be crawling under the dash as well and checking the console and dash harness connections for obvious monkey business.
Of course as everyone knows it should have a clock as well, so many conversions done without.

This is exactly how I determined the gauges were NOT original on my '67.  Even though they are original gauges from another car and a correct gauge option speedo/tach cluster from another car was added (prior to 1982) to make it all seem factory installed, the oil pressure line was routed through the firewall behind the master cylinder.  The dash harness connections are not quite right either.

Edit: I went back and found the thread of this issue on TC to refresh my memory. If you're interested, here it is: http://www.camaros.net/forums/34-restoration-corner/259425-oil-pressure-line-console-gauge.html
Mike in Northern Illinois
1967 RS 327

JohnKY

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 06:08:04 PM »
On a car that came with gauges, there should be a warning light in the dash cluster that says "FUEL". This was for the low fuel warning system.

Bryan302

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 07:04:28 PM »
additionally, another small feature is checking the console itself.  Look for the cutout on the lower front half of the console, and check the lower console mounting bracket to see if the guage wiring harness bracket and plug socket are there.

If these two items are not there, guages were probably added to a non guage console.  Probably a good indicator to start looking elsewhere.

Bryan
Bryan S.
1968 RS Z/28, 12E, PNT R2, TR 749
1969 Z/28 X33, 05A, PNT 52 52, TR 719, endura bumper

HawkX66

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 07:24:36 PM »
On a car that came with gauges, there should be a warning light in the dash cluster that says "FUEL". This was for the low fuel warning system.
Would this be on a console gauge car only or could it have been with the dash fuel gauge? I know mine has it because it has factory console gauges, but I didn't realize it couldn't be with the dash fuel gauge too.
Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi!

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 11:08:20 PM »
Bryan,
  Have any pictures of what you are describing with the console?

On the low fuel warning light, it's present on all dash clusters, but it's only wired up and functional when U17 was ordered.   That's the only way I've seen them anyway.

rich69rs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1109
  • LF7/M35/Z22/Z87
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 11:44:36 PM »
One possible easy check is to see if the green wire from the temp gauge to the sending unit actually goes through the bulkhead/fuse block connector. 

This isn't full proof.  I added console gauges to my '69 RS 20 years ago.  When I first installed them, I ran the temp gauge wire through and available hole in the firewall just to get it into the engine compartment.  In 2004/2005 when the front of the car was disassembled, I re-routed that wire to the proper terminal on both sides of the fuse block/bulkhead connector. 

Easy enough to do with the engine, master cylinder, and brake booster out of the way.  With everything in place, it would be a daunting task, at least for me, to say the least.  I would imagine most folks who aren't concerned about "doing it the way the factory did" would simply do the same thing that I did originally - run the temp gauge wire out through an available hole instead of trying to make the bulkhead connection in the engine compartment with the engine, master cylinder, and brake booster (if applicable) in place.

Richard
Richard Thomas
1969 RS

Bryan302

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 05:51:08 AM »
X33RS, the closest I can get you is the 69 AIM, U17 A2, page 415, (upper left sketch, where the "A" arrow is pointing).  At the very front lower half of the console is a horseshoe shaped cut out.  Non guage consoles do not have this cut out.  Secondly, the front floor mount bracket has a extra u shaped bracket spot welded to the floor bracket for the guage wiring harness.  Naturally, the non guage consoles don't have this extra edition spot welded to the front mounting bracket.

I meant to ask about this earlier, but forgot.  Would the broadcast code sticker on the underside of the guages not be a good way to determine the originality.  If the codes were different, then suspicion would be building.

Sorry about the lack of photo's, SOL in that dept.

Bryan
Bryan S.
1968 RS Z/28, 12E, PNT R2, TR 749
1969 Z/28 X33, 05A, PNT 52 52, TR 719, endura bumper

Camarocards

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2016, 11:52:56 AM »
The console bottom and the bracket was discussed a while ago on the Team Camaro site. Might want to have a read of this thread:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/133-build-projects/182584-time-another-68-z-28-restored-69.html#post3333057

Bob
Bob
'68 SS L35 01D

HawkX66

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 12:11:46 PM »
Here's a couple pics of the console bottom and original wiring as well as the low fuel light that I just took:







Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi!

william

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3116
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 02:29:58 PM »
Nice suggestions but I removed, intact, several dash & console gauge set ups out of factory built cars back in the day. All the wiring also.

If the car receiving the set up was built with a console and it was installed correctly no one would know.
 
Learning more and more about less and less...

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: How to tell if console gauges are original to car
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2016, 06:42:01 PM »
Thanks Bryan, I had a look in the AIM.  Between that and remembering mine being apart a few weeks ago, I know exactly what you mean.

 

anything