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Author Topic: Original Air Cleaner for 69 SS  (Read 17091 times)
KurtS
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2009, 01:11:50 AM »

Can you tell me when your car was built and where? If anyone else could provide similar info for their L48 (as well as whether it had a chrome top or not) it may help sort out whether there was a cut-off date for the chrome topped units.
I'm missing something. Is there some evidence that not all the L48's in 69 all had chrome air cleaners??
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Kurt S
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69redrsss
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« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2009, 12:05:52 AM »

Kurt - I've been referring to '69s not '68s which had a unique air cleaner part number that was chrome as per all the evidence I have seen.  However, with so many original '69 owners claiming to have painted lids, what would possess them to replace them with painted ones? As you are already likely aware Chevrolet factory assembly & parts catalogues show '69 350 4bbls (LM1 & L48) with the same air cleaner part number. In 07?/68 the part number changed and it looks like at the same time the reference to LM1 was added. Was this a possible transition from chrome to painted?  I can't tell because my parts catalogue doesn't list the old part number 6484582. So unless both were chrome (I appreciate the CRG site has an LM1 picture with a chrome top on top of very rusty bottom). I'd say I'm yet to be convinced since I've also seen an original LM1 barn find with a painted lid. If you have documented or strong evidence to the contrary that would help put the arguement to rest.  However, what do you do with all the non-chrome L48s?  It just seems to be an inconsistent practice as to whether the factory installed them or not - at least in 1969.
Les
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
Mark
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2009, 03:02:06 PM »

Don't look at parts manuals to try and determine what came from the factory on cars.  The Factory hardware and Service parts hardware are almost always a different animal.  When a new car was produced (or changed) the the Service parts group went thru all the engineered parts and determined what they needed to carry, and what they already had that would be functionally equivalent.  If an existing black air cleaner lid from a 68 would work on a 69 that should have had a chrome onefrom the factory, the parts group would just list the black one in the parts manuals as being applicable to the new car.  That way they did not have to stock every single nut and bolt for the car.  As time went on over the years the parts kept getting thinned out with more and more functional parts and less correct parts.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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69redrsss
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2009, 08:49:15 PM »

What you say may be the actual case but it makes it very difficult to prove a restoration is back to its factory/showroom condition. If they ran out of chrome lids it might be evidenced by painted lids after a certain build date.   
Les
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2009, 09:19:04 AM »

Servce parts were never used at the factory, The divisions are totally separate.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2009, 11:02:30 AM »

What you say may be the actual case but it makes it very difficult to prove a restoration is back to its factory/showroom condition. If they ran out of chrome lids it might be evidenced by painted lids after a certain build date.   
Les

What you say is true but not always relevant. The term "restoration" means different things to different people.
Did the factory build cars using the wrong parts some times? - Yes! 
Were they supposed to do that? - No.

Restoration for a particular car can mean that a car is returned to it's original "as delivered" condition with any non-spec parts OR does it mean "returned to normative practice" with all the correct specified parts.
Normative practice is more like what the factory should have built given the time and proper specified parts.  "As Delivered" might mean the car had some parts that were not exactly per spec but that is what that particular car had leaving the factory.

If you do not have any STRONG physical evidence IN YOUR HANDS to show others that a particular car was delivered with parts that were not correct "normative practice" you are shoveling sand into the ocean. There is no real reason for anyone to accept that these incorrect parts are original for that car.

The car in question has numerous aftermarket replacement parts all over the engine bay. it is not possible to say with any certainty how much of this example is "original to the car" but we can determine if the parts and pieces are aftermarket or "normative practice" from research, casting numbers and date codes etc. Thats about all we can ever know.

-Mark.
 
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69redrsss
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2009, 02:56:02 PM »

Simplistically, where
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
69redrsss
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2009, 10:36:01 PM »

Sorry for my last reply - my link crashed.
I just want to have some way to prove that my car is close to showroom/factory floor condition once I'm done.  I'm trying to use documentation as proof.  Even with documentation people debate like has been happening here.
Although there may be some exceptions, my July 1969 printing of the Camaro Master Parts Cataloque almost always lines up with the factory assembly manual - at least where I have looked so far.  The SS350/L48 chrome lid seems to be an unusual exception. I'm hoping other members can help fill in the documentation gap.
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2009, 07:53:53 AM »

For what it's worth , my 69 L48 has a build date of 01B.
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crobjones2
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« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2009, 12:15:45 PM »

  However, with so many original '69 owners claiming to have painted lids, what would possess them to replace them with painted ones?

I don't see any owners claiming to have painted air cleaner lids.

For the record - I have a 06A SS350(L48) with almost all of the original parts. I have the painted valve covers and the chrome air cleaner.
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Chris
69 SS 350
69redrsss
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« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2009, 04:20:26 PM »

Thanks Chris for the info on your car. I came upon the inconsistency looking for info on correct valve covers & air cleaner to finish restoring my 08A L48 with a TH350.  I found about 30-40% of original owners claiming to have never had a chrome air cleaner.  I didn't keep stats (I now see I should have). That % range is hard to ignore. If you have a chrome air cleaner it likely sounds odd because it matches Chev practices on other SS350 '69 models (Nova SS for example) as well as the '68 Camaro L48. Specific posts (any forum) on the issue are also rare. I usually stumbled upon the info looking for something else L48 related.
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
KurtS
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« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2009, 02:11:48 AM »

Every original L48 and LM1 air cleaner that I've seen has had the chrome lid (non-cowl hood). This includes factory pics and original road tests.
The chrome lid was directly referenced in the ordering info for the L48 and that never changed throughout the year.

I've been at this for a while and there are others (William, JohnZ, etc) that have been doing it even longer. I'm not hearing the support for the black lid from them, nor am I seeing any supporting data for the black lid in this thread. Data will help generate more discussion.

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Kurt S
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« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2009, 11:11:49 PM »

I respect that all of you have been chasing these issues much longer than I. However, if all '69 L48s were equipped as such there are a significant number of false claims out there.  It would take a lot of time to re-gather my references but I may try to do it.
Is it possible that they were originally intended to be equipped that way but due to high demand and/or the extended '69 model run that the factory substituted periodically or near the end of the model run?
If you are willing to send me the ordering reference to this I'd really appreciate it. I'm just trying to sort out for my own car.
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Les
'69 Garnet Red TH350 SS350 RS
KurtS
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2009, 10:04:23 AM »

The various order forms and price lists throughout the year show that the 69 Camaro SS included 'bright engine accents' or '....350 engine with bright accents'. As was discussed above, the valve covers were painted, leaving only the chrome air cleaner as an 'accent'.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2009, 12:58:32 PM »

I found and posted here or at Camaros.net several '69 option sheets / advertizements in books like CAMARO 1967-1969 Fact Book by Dobbins, et al, and Michael Lamm's the Great Camaro. On page 47 he shows air intake inlets on a 1968 Rally Sport, and the bright engine accents on page 54...these guys were real pioneers in trying to document this stuff early on- but they natuarally did not always get it right- so if people of enhanced knowledge and a myriad of research done, it is most likely correct. Kinda like "this movie based on a true story"...how much is true???  Kurt, Jerry M and JohnZ havethis stuff pretty well pinned down.


The various order forms and price lists throughout the year show that the 69 Camaro SS included 'bright engine accents' or '....350 engine with bright accents'. As was discussed above, the valve covers were painted, leaving only the chrome air cleaner as an 'accent'.
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Rob
Olympic Gold X33

"Its all crazy..."
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