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Author Topic: Grill emblem placement for a 1969 Z/28 RS vs Standard  (Read 2038 times)
jk1969z28
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« on: June 23, 2014, 08:51:19 AM »

During the Camaro Nationals this year I was talking to Fred from Texas who has a sweet 1969 Z/28 Cortez Silver RS and I asked him why his grill emblem was placed more towards center vs where it would be located on the standard grill.  He indicated that last year he was docked a point because the emblem should be moved to its current location.  I believe he was correct with where he originally had it because in my mind why would they move the emblem more towards center on the RS, there are 5 verticle lines on the standard and the RS grill and it only makes sense that the emblem should remain at the same location regardless of which grill, plus it just doesn't look right being on the more centered location.  Plus I also remembered an article from Muscle Machines about a guy who bought an RS Z/28 new, sold it then got it back years later, but the interesting part about the article is the picture from when he first got the car and it shows that the emblem is in the location of which I believe it should be.  So Fred if you see this post here is a link to the article, I knew I would find it!!  Scrowl through the pictures and let me know what you think.  Food for thought!!  Hope you made it home safe and sound.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2011/08/01/hmn_feature2.html

Regards,
Jerry K.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 10:45:32 AM »

I think *this* is the Cortez Silver Z28/RS that you are referring to at the nationals....  and I agree that the Z28 emblem seems a bit *too centered* in the grill.   The article you reference has the Z28 emblem which 'seems' better to me (but this is a question that seems to have no 'documented' answer, as I haven't been able to find it in any GM documents (for the RS), and Z28 emblems on RS grills seem to get placed all over the place.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
jk1969z28
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 11:03:38 AM »

Thanks Gary, that is the car.  Again I do not see any reason why the placement would be different RS vs. Standard.  To clarify what I mean by 5 verticles, if you look at the center veritcle and take that as zero like on a number line then go right there are 5 verticles before you get to the head light.  The standard grill placement is on the third veritcle splitting the Z and thus should "in my opinion" do the same on the RS grill and would place it in the same location in relation to the stripe.  It seems obvious to me and looks "right".  The location on Fred's car is on the second verticle and just looks weird.  Fred had it on the third verticle but was told it was "wrong", but not sure on what basis.  Just a pet peave, I guess, of mine, I could be wrong but I would have to have something more concrete.  That is why I referenced the article and a picture that was at the latest taken in 1970.  I have a standard grill car so I don't have a dog in the fight, but if mine was an RS I would put it on the 3rd verticle because it looks "right" :-)

Regards,
Jerry
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 11:20:41 AM »

I recall from when I purchased my 69 Z28/RS in 1976, the emblem location 'didn't look right' to me, and I moved it..  I was basing that decision on the location of the emblem on my '68 Z28 (non RS) car I'd traded for the '69.. but I had no doc/manual to go by..   it was purely by 'look' to me, but I'd been around original Z28's since 1968, but not many RS models.

I *think* the various locations of the Z28 emblem on an RS grill comes from the fact that the RS grill 'seems more narrow' than the std grill to the eye, and maybe the 'black color' of it?, and the factory assembly manual instructions shows the 'std' grill, and doesn't address the RS grill location...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
cook_dw
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 11:27:05 AM »

I recall from when I purchased my 69 Z28/RS in 1976, the emblem location 'didn't look right' to me, and I moved it..  I was basing that decision on the location of the emblem on my '68 Z28 (non RS) car I'd traded for the '69.. but I had no doc/manual to go by..   it was purely by 'look' to me, but I'd been around original Z28's since 1968, but not many RS models.

I *think* the various locations of the Z28 emblem on an RS grill comes from the fact that the RS grill 'seems more narrow' than the std grill to the eye, and maybe the 'black color' of it?, and the factory assembly manual instructions shows the 'std' grill, and doesn't address the RS grill location...


FYI 68's didnt have Z emblems in the grill. Tongue
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
jk1969z28
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 11:42:38 AM »

So if there is no documentation, how can he be docked a point?  And if there is no documentation then it was probably assumed that the default was the standard grill location, and I like to go back to how the placement in the grill relates to the stripe.  I'd love to see some more early, early photos like the article if anyone has any.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 01:03:32 PM »

I recall from when I purchased my 69 Z28/RS in 1976, the emblem location 'didn't look right' to me, and I moved it..  I was basing that decision on the location of the emblem on my '68 Z28 (non RS) car I'd traded for the '69.. but I had no doc/manual to go by..   it was purely by 'look' to me, but I'd been around original Z28's since 1968, but not many RS models.

I *think* the various locations of the Z28 emblem on an RS grill comes from the fact that the RS grill 'seems more narrow' than the std grill to the eye, and maybe the 'black color' of it?, and the factory assembly manual instructions shows the 'std' grill, and doesn't address the RS grill location...


FYI 68's didnt have Z emblems in the grill. Tongue

you're right DW.. Smiley   I typed too fast and had a brain fart.. Smiley   

To clarify... " I was basing my conclusion that my RS Z28 grill emblem placement as being 'wrong' on being around MANY non-RS 69 Z28's in the past... Smiley   "
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
cook_dw
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 01:18:46 PM »

I recall from when I purchased my 69 Z28/RS in 1976, the emblem location 'didn't look right' to me, and I moved it..  I was basing that decision on the location of the emblem on my '68 Z28 (non RS) car I'd traded for the '69.. but I had no doc/manual to go by..   it was purely by 'look' to me, but I'd been around original Z28's since 1968, but not many RS models.

I *think* the various locations of the Z28 emblem on an RS grill comes from the fact that the RS grill 'seems more narrow' than the std grill to the eye, and maybe the 'black color' of it?, and the factory assembly manual instructions shows the 'std' grill, and doesn't address the RS grill location...


FYI 68's didnt have Z emblems in the grill. Tongue

you're right DW.. Smiley   I typed too fast and had a brain fart.. Smiley   

To clarify... " I was basing my conclusion that my RS Z28 grill emblem placement as being 'wrong' on being around MANY non-RS 69 Z28's in the past... Smiley   "

Just giving you a hard time..   Grin
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 01:26:16 PM »

I recall from when I purchased my 69 Z28/RS in 1976, the emblem location 'didn't look right' to me, and I moved it..  I was basing that decision on the location of the emblem on my '68 Z28 (non RS) car I'd traded for the '69.. but I had no doc/manual to go by..   it was purely by 'look' to me, but I'd been around original Z28's since 1968, but not many RS models.

I *think* the various locations of the Z28 emblem on an RS grill comes from the fact that the RS grill 'seems more narrow' than the std grill to the eye, and maybe the 'black color' of it?, and the factory assembly manual instructions shows the 'std' grill, and doesn't address the RS grill location...


FYI 68's didnt have Z emblems in the grill. Tongue

you're right DW.. Smiley   I typed too fast and had a brain fart.. Smiley   

To clarify... " I was basing my conclusion that my RS Z28 grill emblem placement as being 'wrong' on being around MANY non-RS 69 Z28's in the past... Smiley   "

Just giving you a hard time..   Grin

No hard time taken.  I appreciate your correcting my post...  (but you should know that it could turn into an almost full time job!).. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
cook_dw
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 02:10:41 PM »

No hard time taken.  I appreciate your correcting my post...  (but you should know that it could turn into an almost full time job!).. Smiley

Ill just keep the corrections for 68 comments.  Ill let someone else have 69's & 7's..  lol  Lord knows I been wrong more than once or twice..    Roll Eyes  Thats what I like about this place we can all talk about things and make corrections without everyone getting all butt hurt.  Well most of us..   Shocked

Ok done hijacking.. 
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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
Fred69Z28RS
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2014, 02:55:14 PM »

Jerry, thanks for asking the question. Also, enjoyed talking to you at Nationals. They are going by the photo in Jerry MacNeish's book on page 5 and 45 which show it on the middle slat. Thanks, Fred
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 04:23:27 PM »

Jerry, thanks for asking the question. Also, enjoyed talking to you at Nationals. They are going by the photo in Jerry MacNeish's book on page 5 and 45 which show it on the middle slat. Thanks, Fred

if you use JM's 4th edition, pg 45 shows frontal photos of the std and RS grills for a Z28.  Look at the placement of the Z28 emblems relative to the LHS stripe..   they are NOT placed the same.    I don't know what is correct for Z28/RS cars, and perhaps no one does... since there is not factory documentation that I've seen, and most everyone who has an RS is confused about it...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
ZLP955
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 05:03:32 PM »

Many people can't get it in the correct place on non-RS cars either, so no surprise the RS owners are confused without GM documentation.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
jk1969z28
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 08:06:07 PM »

Hi Fred,  No problem asking the question.  That is what this forum is for.  I don't want to make a federal case about it but we can go on and on about the finish of a bolt that most people will never see, but getting one of the most important elements of an ICONIC American automobile correct should be essential.  Again if there is NO documentation then why the point reduction.  So then it comes down to the picture in Jerry's book vs the picture in the link I put up.  The closer to the selling date the picture the more reliable I would contend, so if there is anyone out there with photos when they brought their 1969 RS Z/28 home for the first time and can post them that would be outstanding and go a long way in helping others.  I agree that most people mess up the standard grill emblem.  It makes all the purist cringe and that should be the way we feel with the RS Z/28 grill, it can't be acceptable to be located in more than one place, there is only one that is correct.  So go ahead Fred and move that emblem back, my money says you had it right all along.

Jerry K.
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MO
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 10:37:26 PM »

Check out the cover car of the latest Muscle Car Review. Reportedly, an unrestored original car, and the emblem is more to the center of the grill.
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