Author Topic: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine  (Read 2410 times)

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« on: September 04, 2013, 05:32:26 PM »
We have a 1969 Z/28 project car and I am trying to confirm the engine.  The original engine was blown.  A replacement 302 was purchased in 1974.  The Block Casting appears to be 3970010.  We can read the partial VIN on the engine pad, and it starts with "CE" as we would expect for a replacement engine.  There doesn't appear to be an Engine Assembly Code to the right of it.  Were replacement engines stamped with Engine Assembly Codes?  Thanks!

1968RSZ28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5110
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 05:36:42 PM »
Welcome to CRG!

Read this...  http://www.camaros.org/engine.shtml#service

Paul

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 05:46:27 PM »
Paul, thanks for the response.  I did read that.  It's a little bit vague in that it explains the numbering system for the partial VIN on a replacement engine (at least in 1968).  But, it didn't say that replacement engines don't get Engine Codes.  Also, that bulletin is from 1968.  It looks like the numbering system changed between '68 and '74 when our replacement engine was purchased.  The partial VIN still starts with "CE", but it's not a model year and sequence number after that.  It looks like the production year followed by a combination of letters and numbers.

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 05:56:57 PM »
...unless the "CE" code replaces then Engine Code and not the partial VIN, if I had it backwards.  If that's the case, how can you identify that the engine is a 302 and not a 350?

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4250
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 06:31:01 PM »
...unless the "CE" code replaces then Engine Code and not the partial VIN, if I had it backwards.  If that's the case, how can you identify that the engine is a 302 and not a 350?

There is no partial VIN on a replacement "CE" block - just the "CE" followed by the year of manufacture and the 5-digit sequence number. There is nothing in the "CE" number that identifies the components in the short block - the easiest way to identify a 302 or 350 externally is the shape of the flange on the crankshaft; the 302 crank flange has a very unique shape, shown in the photo below.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 06:53:38 PM »
OK, thanks.  I think we're getting closer on the CE code.  It stars with "CE", then comes the production year (not the model year), followed by the letter "N", and then a five-digit number.  We're planning to sell the car and engine.  The challenge will be convincing the potential buyers that this is, in fact, a replacement 302 without digging too deep into the engine.

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 09:13:00 PM »
You can't tell without seeing the inside or measuring the displacement.
Kurt S
CRG

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 09:24:58 PM »
"You can't tell without seeing the inside or measuring the displacement."

That's what I was afraid of.  We have the sales receipts from 1974 that list the part numbers for block, pistons, etc.  I called the GM Heritage Center to see if they could look up the parts number in the old GM parts catalogs.  The guy tried to help, but the 1974 catalog didn't even list parts for a 302.  He was not able to find the part number I gave him for the block.  I wonder if there was a Performance Parts Catalog in 1974?  I know that the receipts don't replace an engine stamp or seeing inside the engine.  But, I hope they at least give us a reason to keep digging.

1968 Z28

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 11:46:45 PM »
KEZ.......check out this link to a GM parts manual dated DEC 1972.  It has the numbers for the various 302 parts.  The initial web page displays two sections....the first section is the illustrations and the second section is the part numbers.  If you have any problem, just post the part numbers and we can look them up for you.

          http://www.chevyinfo.net/?page_id=455
     
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 01:43:57 AM »
Jerry:  This is a great resource.  Thanks!  I was able to match up some of the numbers from my receipts.  For example, the part number for pistons #3946876 match for a '69 302.  The valves #3849818 designate a Z28.  Unfortunately, I was not able to find the part number for the block.  My receipt from 1974 shows part number 3970657.  That's close to the number for a '69 302 "block assembly".  The number for that is 3970647.  But, the description says that the assembly comes with pistons, rings, etc.  My receipts have those items broken out.

1968 Z28

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 02:27:23 AM »
The part number 3970657 should be for a complete assembled short block (This part number was listed in an earlier parts book I have).  The other part numbers for the block shouldn't even be listed if a complete short block assembly was ordered.

The 3970647 is for a fitted block assembly, that is an assembly that includes most everything but the crankshaft.  

Can't understand why they busted out the parts and listed them separately.  Well maybe they listed them separately to run up the bill.  I'm sure the sum total of all the block pieces would be higher than the price of a complete short block.

It does seem that they received a 1969, 4-bolt, 302ci assembly.

KEZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 03:42:47 AM »
If those are prices listed in the catalog, the "partial engine" under part number 3970657 cost $878.00.  My receipt shows a list price of $632.50 for the block and they were charged $543.63.

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4250
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Pad Stamp on Replacement Engine
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 04:24:38 PM »
The 3970647 is for a fitted block assembly, that is an assembly that includes most everything but the crankshaft.

The "fitted block" was only the block, pistons, and rings - no crank, rods, cam, etc.