Author Topic: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles  (Read 69230 times)

x66 714

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #150 on: October 26, 2016, 09:30:16 PM »
Mine is 341.

Casting date is H 5 9.

It was in the upper right. Can't take a picture. Muffler is in the way..Joe
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 11:18:53 PM by x66 714 »
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #151 on: October 26, 2016, 11:13:51 PM »
I bet they were peened by previous owners. None of the originals I have seen were peened. And I think if they REALLY did it at the factory, they would have obliterated the C. So I am not buying it.

I have also seen loose blocks peened.

Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #152 on: October 26, 2016, 11:18:02 PM »
Mine is 341 but I can't read the date at the moment until I can get it cleaned. Casting date of the rear end on curb side lower, back side?...Joe

Normally on the back side in the webbing, drivers side.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

x66 714

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #153 on: October 26, 2016, 11:19:37 PM »
I adj my post. Take a look...Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4428
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #154 on: October 27, 2016, 12:48:12 AM »
I bet they were peened by previous owners. None of the originals I have seen were peened. And I think if they REALLY did it at the factory, they would have obliterated the C. So I am not buying it.
...

Why would any owner 'peen' over part of a stamped number on a differential??  And what are you not buying??
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #155 on: October 27, 2016, 01:20:40 AM »
I bet they were peened by previous owners. None of the originals I have seen were peened. And I think if they REALLY did it at the factory, they would have obliterated the C. So I am not buying it.
...

Why would any owner 'peen' over part of a stamped number on a differential??  And what are you not buying??

Peened over by some, because they didn't know it should have the C, and they wanted it to look right. 

I theorize that axles were built and in racks ready to deliver for the Camaro/Nova line. Because the Camaro line was held over, considered a 69 by Norwood brass? a directive came from Norwood that said they did not want that C on the axle, so shipments slated for Norwood had to be manually gone through by a worker at Eaton? or Norwood? and correct them to what Norwood wanted to show as a 69 axle maybe for warranty or some other accounting reason? Some, made it through because for the same reason other discrepancies exist.   

I am not buying the hypothesis above.  Possible, but very low chance of reality in my opinion.  Why do I think that?  Because they aren't all that way.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3366
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #156 on: October 27, 2016, 05:20:10 AM »
Whats funny to me is hardly anyone on here knew that there even was a "C", but now we are going to credit red neck owners of the 70's and 80's of having the know how, to peen or hit the "C", and in some cases just rough it up a little???
I was not around the car scene in the 70's or 80's, but I have turned wrenches with the best of them, and guys were into horsepower, and going fast. My friend bought a 69Z in '93 and at that point guys were checking for a DZ motor (not caring, let alone checking the date), a muncie 4 spd, and a 12 bolt. So if 99% of the buyers were not checking the axle code and date stamp on the components, who would these highly informed red necks be trying to impress by rubbing out the "C" on the rear??
I think theses rear ends speak for themselves, but then again I do subscribe that there was some variance in the manufacture of these cars, because they were put together by human hands.
A good example would be the trim tag I posted that has a date of 4L. Obviously a error at the factory. But using your logic a owner must have done it, because we have never seen a 4L tag before?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 05:41:55 AM by BULLITT65 »
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4428
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #157 on: October 27, 2016, 12:54:35 PM »
I agree with Austin on this one; it's ludicrous to even think that some quantity of 69 Camaro owners even knew what their rear end code was before the last few years (the fellas on CRG are the *extreme*, not the norm for Camaro owners!), and even more extreme to believe that a bunch of Camaro owners crawled under their car and 'peened' on that 'unrelated' C out in front of the axle code.  I've been a car nut for over 50 yrs, a Camaro fan since they were introduced, past owner of '68 and 70 Z28s, and an owner of my '69 Z28 for 40 yrs, and until a couple of years ago, I had NEVER even thought of crawling under and checking the rear end code on any of those cars (I knew they were original to my cars by other factors, and didn't even know there was a code on them until getting involved with CRG).

Anyway, I think the idea proposed by Bryon that 'camaro owners over the years' had peened off the 'C'... (I'm still laughing at the idea).. is pretty ludicrous. 

IMO, there are only two possibilities for the rears where we 'see', or imagine we see, a damaged 'C' out in front of the axle code:

1)  roadway objects, rocks, etc, happened to hit that area...?
2)  OR.. there was some confusion in the axle plant, given the changing of the axle code schema for the 70 model year cars, combined with the extended production of the '69 Camaro into the 70 model year.

Note:  Corvettes were also extended production...  Was there a corresponding change in Corvette axle codes? ( I have an original '69 Corvette I've owned since 1988 or so which I've never checked a rear end code either...)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #158 on: October 27, 2016, 12:58:05 PM »
I agree, I don't believe owners were peening over the C back in a time when no one cared, and now thinking that was the case when the presence of the C hasn't been know by the experts until recently, and still isn't fully understood.

Sometimes I think there is a little too much skepticism in the hobby.  I understand for good reason but some of it simply hasn't been completely explained yet so it's easier to throw it under the bus.


bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #159 on: October 27, 2016, 01:39:09 PM »
Think what you want. I have been crawling under cars since the 70s to look at axle codes. Nobody care about axles codes back then? Better think again.

Ludicrous? Ha!

I won't start anything but you notice all of the peened ones are BU - right? Think about what those are in.

And what about all of the ones that aren't peened?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4428
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2016, 01:53:54 PM »
lu·di·crous

 ...so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing; ridiculous.
"it's ludicrous that I have been fined"  or 'saying that multiple owners peened the 'c' off is ludicrous...  :)
synonyms:   absurd, ridiculous, farcical, laughable, risible, preposterous, foolish, mad, insane, idiotic, stupid, inane, silly, asinine, nonsensical; informalcrazy
"a ludicrous idea"
 

Your comment made me laugh, Byron....   that's what 'ludicrous' means to me..  :)   and to be clear, I'm not 'laughing at you', I'm laughing at the idea that multiple/many people over the years have saw those 'C's out there and had the same idea of 'I'd better remove that C or people will think this is a '70 model year rear instead of the '69 it came in!"    makes my wonder why those same people didn't PEEN off that 'E' just under the axle code too!  :)

You may have been the only one crawling under checking axle codes in the 70's...  (actually, jacking up and crawling under given how low Camaros are)... :)     How many of those C's have you peened over in those years?/  :) :)   

Further comments:   
1)in most of the cases, the existence of the 'C' is still obvious; if someone had wanted to 'hide' it, they would 'grind it off' OR peen it into nothingness...
2)  the 'C' is displaced so much that *most* people reading their axle code ignore it... 
3) This thread over the past year has been the ONLY reference/mention I've ever seen related to the existence (or not) of that C at the beginning of the '70 model year, and i've been reading/absorbing auto mags since Dizzy Dean was calling baseball games.. :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2016, 02:14:59 PM »
Gary, just because it hasn't been written or in print before doesn't mean it wasn't known.

As a kid, it was easier for dad to send me under cars to look at codes when we were in junk yards. Growing up around a racing family - dirt track,  1/4 mile, street - things are a little different.  But in a good way.  Lots of memories.  Ever reach way under to feel for the P casting on a 58-64 full size center section in a car in a junkyard?  If I did that once, I did it 1,000 times or more.

Know anyone that has a "numbers infatuation"?  Anyone looking for a correctly dated carb, alternator, exhaust manifold? 

Trust me, there are those out there that if they saw a C there, and didn't like it or thought it looked wrong for their car, they would peen it. 

Just my opinion.  I am entitled to that, and you are entitled to yours. 

Bottom line, they are not ALL peened, so my idea makes as much sense as anyone elses.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 01:52:50 AM by bcmiller »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

x66 714

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #162 on: October 27, 2016, 02:59:00 PM »
I remember the first time I posted my vin Kurt contacted me to ask if it had a rear end code with 3 letters. That was my first time to learn about the "C". I know the engine has a 3 letter code indicating a 402....Joe
 
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #163 on: October 27, 2016, 03:04:08 PM »
I agree Gary, if someone didn't like the C or were trying to hide it, they wouldn't just "peen" over it.  That makes it look even worse and more skeptical than if you were to just leave it alone.  That's why the owner theory just simply doesn't make sense.

I've seen enough originals, and owned enough myself,  to know this was done for another reason, we just simply don't understand it yet, that's all.  No disrespect meant to anyone.

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1786
    • View Profile
Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #164 on: October 27, 2016, 07:35:36 PM »
Just drug this out of a barn in Indiana this afternoon. The "C" has been peened over, guessing at the factory. This axle has never had the numbers area cleaned off till I bought it. Will get a better pic of Cast Date tomorrow. Looks like F119 (June 11th)?

Do the guts match the code?  What are the dates of the ring and pinion?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016