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Author Topic: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles  (Read 12128 times)
bcmiller
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« on: January 08, 2013, 10:48:08 PM »

It appears that 12 bolt rear axles with casting number 3969341 started showing up in 69 Camaros sometime around early August of 1969.  Prior to this, only the 3894860 casting number was used.  

What I am looking for are dates (casting date of housing and assembly date stamp - with letter codes - on the axle tube) for early 3969341 axles and late 3894860 axles.  If you know it is original to the car, you can post the body assembly date from the cowl tag too.

Please let me know what you have.  Post pics if possible.  There was probably somewhat of an overlap, but not sure how much.    

Thanks in advance!

Bryon

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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 02:30:37 AM »

Where are the casting numbers?
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 12:08:22 PM »

Here you go.

Ed

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bcmiller
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 06:33:47 PM »

09A Dusk Blue Z28 124379N680789
12-bolt 3:73 Posi:
assembly stamp C BU 0828
                           E
Casting # 3969341
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 09:06:11 PM »

I parted out 9N677954  CBS0805G  341, cast G259. I only know of 2 341's before that one. There have to be more.....

Not a lot of axle casting data on these late cars in the db.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 12:22:18 AM »

My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 02:09:30 AM »

Here you go.

Ed
Oh. Thought he was talking about the axles themselves! Duh!!!

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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 11:11:27 PM »

Maybe a little earlier than you want, but here goes:
06A
9N665238
BM0625G
Cast 860

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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 01:33:47 AM »

Keep the information flowing guys. Thanks for the replies so far!
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 03:20:45 PM »

Build date 08E (Z28)
Casting number 3969341
Assembly stamp CBU 0828 G2
Casting date H139
                           
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 06:19:45 PM »

My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary

Gary, is it stamped BU or CBU?  The one Kurt posted had a casting date earlier than yours and it used the 3 letter code. 

I am just trying to see if maybe the casting date change corresponded with the change from 2 letter codes to 3 letter codes.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 06:20:42 PM »

Build date 08E (Z28)
Casting number 3969341
Assembly stamp CBU 0828 G2
Casting date H139

Thanks! 
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 11:48:37 PM »

My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary

Gary, is it stamped BU or CBU?  The one Kurt posted had a casting date earlier than yours and it used the 3 letter code.  

I am just trying to see if maybe the casting date change corresponded with the change from 2 letter codes to 3 letter codes.

only 'BU'...  2 letter code..   (see photo attached)
and actually I see that I posted the incorrect date...   BU0829G1 ....
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 01:06:05 AM »

That looks like a C to the left of the BU. Pretty hard to see...
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Kurt S
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 08:46:37 AM »

..  then you have better eyes or a better imagination than I, Kurt..  Smiley
Do you have a photo of a CBU stamp?  I don't think I've ever seen one, so maybe it's not like I was expecting..?
or maybe Bryon can post a pix of his as he has a C BU code??
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 07:35:25 PM »

Gary my car is a 9A and is coded C  BU date is 82X I believe either a 6 or 8. I think the exhaust system had rubbed against the tube and now the last digit is hard to identify.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 10:47:36 AM »

No help in answering your question because my 69 is an early build 11C '68.

K 88 dated 860 casting with BI1115G1 assembly.
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2013, 11:29:50 AM »

Do you have a photo of a CBU stamp?  I don't think I've ever seen one, so maybe it's not like I was expecting..?
or maybe Bryon can post a pix of his as he has a C BU code??

Here you go Gary....


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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2013, 02:50:47 PM »

Thanks for the photo Sonny.  It's interesting to see how much separation there is in the 'C' and the 'BU'.   Does anyone have any idea why the separation?  stamped separately?  or ??  if so, maybe the 'C' is carrying some other piece of information we aren't aware of?
and seeing the separation, perhaps Kurt was correct, and there 'was' a 'C' before my BU code, but if so, it was apparetly hit by a highway rock, or debris, and became obscured to the point it is no longer clear.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 11:36:22 AM »

I think the axle stamp didn't have a place for the extra C character. Not sure how they handled it, but the letters are spaced like that.
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2013, 10:00:30 PM »

I agree with Kurt, I think it is C BU.

I am starting to think more that the 3 letter code started when the casting number changed to 3969341.  But more data points are needed.
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 09:11:23 AM »

I went back to the CRG data on differentials, and it says the 3 letter code began wtih the '70 model year, and the 'C' represented 'cars' (I supposed as opposed to truck differentials?)..  Given that, it makes sense that at the time they would have normally began building the new model year (late July or August or so?), they would have began using the new parts; as they did for a number of different items on our late '69 cars; several items are labeled as, or carry characteristics of the '70 model year, rather than the '69 model year.
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2013, 02:15:32 PM »

The space between the C and the other two letters of the code is there for most (I am not quite sure I can say all) cases that I have seen for late 69 Model year and early 1970 model year Camaros.  It is not always there for Chevelles. 

Attached is a 1970 C OZ code that shows similar spacing.
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2013, 12:20:28 PM »

The attached image is from an Impala.  Casting number is 3969341 with casting date I 5 9.  Just for additional reference.  It has the C before the FW.
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 02:06:28 PM »

Saw this one yesterday but did not get a picture.  Was in a 70 Camaro at one time so perches had been moved.  Was either in a 70 Nova or 69 Camaro originally from what I could tell.
Casting number  3894860
Casting date      F 24 9
Stamped code   C BM 0807G1

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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 07:14:48 PM »

I wish I had better pics for you, but my rear end isn't there yet...

Casting Number 3969341
Casting Date H 11 9
Stamped Code C BS 0820G2





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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2014, 09:57:26 PM »

Thanks for posting the pics!
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 02:59:13 AM »

sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.
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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 11:57:15 AM »

sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.
That's interesting. Five days between your rear end and mine and yours isn't a "C" rear end. Gary's is 9 days after mine and it isn't a "C" rear end either.
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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 12:14:09 PM »

Nope..   Gary's IS a C rear end..  although the C is partially obscured by an 'impact' wtih a rock or something in the past..?
(Bryan and Kurt finally convinced me there was a 'C' out there in front of the BU..)

see image here..     http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10375.0;attach=10540;image
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 03:11:07 PM »

Nope..   Gary's IS a C rear end..  although the C is partially obscured by an 'impact' wtih a rock or something in the past..?
(Bryan and Kurt finally convinced me there was a 'C' out there in front of the BU..)

see image here..     http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10375.0;attach=10540;image
Gotcha. I think I can barely see it now. That makes sense.
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« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2014, 10:50:59 PM »

sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

Do you have the casting number and casting date from this rear?  Maybe I missed it in an earlier post?
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« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 01:00:07 AM »

I am going to have look through my archive of pics, since I am not near the car right now.
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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2014, 01:57:04 PM »

OK, please post up that data when you have a chance.
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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2014, 08:29:23 PM »

I have a 860 C.B.U. rear end, casting is  September 6th of 1969 and axle stamped 9 16. I will try to post pics of the C.B.U. axle stamp tomorrow.
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« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2014, 06:41:47 PM »

I was incorrect , my rear end is not a 860 casting it is a 341 casting with a CBU 9 16 tube date and a J 6 casting. I took pics but not sure how to post on this site. My TT has a 9 A date ( 1st week of September) so my rear end is a little late for my car. I see some fellow members on this post have good dates that would be correct for my car. I'm assuming the rear ends are under there cars but if not are any of you guys interested in selling or trading your rear end ? 
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 08:02:08 AM »

Kurt would be able to answer better, but your axle stamped CBU0916 may be OK for your car.  

You can send pics to my email and I will post them if you want. Click on my username to get my contact info.
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 08:43:21 AM »

Ok Gary got me back under my car and I got the rest of the info. I have the 3969341 rear end, dated (I think ) G 25. So far it looks like the only one with 341 casting but still has just the 2 letter format.
There are a couple of other 08C guys on here ( Sonny, vellu, Jims69, and nick -Daytona Yellow 69 Z)
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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 08:46:50 AM »

I just went through my correspondence with Jim, and his vin is a couple of hundred after mine and his rear end is the 3 letter format. Hopefully he will chime in with his info. So mine may be one of the last of the 2 letter format, and Jims may be one of the first for the 3 letter format.
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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2014, 09:03:22 AM »

Bullitt's 0815, without the C (but with the 341 rear), and Sarge's WITH the C, stamped 0820..  pretty well brackets the change to use of the 'C' (1970 format) to between the dates of 15 August and 20August 1969.   Bullitt's diff is the later casting number, but without the 'C', so that seems to imply that the two changes (C) and 341 casting, did not occurr simultaneously...

The rear end casting, and use of the 'C' in front of the diff app stamp are two more items to add to our list of intended 1970 changes that were applied to 'late 1969 extended production of Camaros and Corvettes.   I think it would be a good research report to itemize all the things that 'changed', as well as best known dates of change, for late production, and would be useful in the generation of an 'ultimate' Restoration and judging reference manual for Camaros.
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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2014, 09:10:08 AM »

Actually Jims69 will bracket it better, his car is about 197 after mine and his has the C. I sent him a message hopefully he can post the casting and date on his.
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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2014, 09:49:52 AM »

Actually Jims69 will bracket it better, his car is about 197 after mine and his has the C. I sent him a message hopefully he can post the casting and date on his.

Wow..   197 cars is like a few hours, unless it's the end of one day/beginning of the next day production, OR with it being a new thing (stamping the C) in the differential plant, perhaps they just weren't consistent yet..?
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2014, 11:24:23 AM »

We are getting closer on this.  When you post, make sure you include not only the casting number and casting date, but the COMPLETE data on the assembly stamp. That includes 2 or 3 letter code, date code, assembly plant and shift.  

And having pics to back up the data would be great.

Will get something written up when things are closer to final.

Thanks!
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2014, 12:29:05 PM »

You saw my earlier post with the pic of the stamp right?
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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2014, 12:45:08 PM »

Yes, I see it now.  

sorry just noticed this thread Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

You also said
Quote
I have the 3969341 rear end, dated (I think ) G 25.

Can you post a picture of the casting date please?
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2014, 12:51:56 PM »

I am going to try to summarize what we have so far and put into one post.
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2014, 01:04:16 PM »

Sorry, my rear end is in the car. I tried to get off some undercoating and wire brush it, and while I can "see" it I can't get the camera at the right angle to capture it. I can try again in a few days when I am by the car again.
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Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2014, 04:35:31 PM »

OK, I went through what we have so far and tried to put them in order.  It is more difficult to put the data together if everything is not in one post.  Let me know if you see errors.

Looks like we have at least a few days of overlap of the housings used in early August at the axle assembly plants. Not surprising.

06A - 9N665238
BM 0625G
860

9N677954  
C BS 0805G  
341, cast G 25 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BM 0807G1
860, cast F 24 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 0820G2
341, cast H 11 9

08E  
C BU 0828 G2
341, cast H 13 9

09A - 9N680789
C BU 0828    
341

09A
C  BU date is 82X
xxx

09C
CB U 0829G1
341

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BU 0916
341, cast J 6 9
                        
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 11:25:52 PM by bcmiller » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2014, 04:40:34 PM »



Looks like we have some overlap in early August.

06A - 9N665238
BM 0625G
860

08C N672394
BU 0815G2
341, cast G 25 9


9N677954 
C BS 0805G 
341, cast G 25 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BM 0807G1
860, cast F 24 9



Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 0820G2
341, cast H 11 9

08E 
C BU 0828 G2
341, cast H 13 9

09A - 9N680789
C BU 0828     
341

09C
CB U 0829G1
341

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BU 0916
341, cast J 6 9
                         
(I added my partial vin, and moved myself in the order)
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
bcmiller
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2014, 04:50:25 PM »

That's fine. I am trying to look at the data right now by assembly date stamp.

And I can go back to modify my posts.   Smiley
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2014, 04:55:44 PM »

well that F24 860 must have been on the back of the rack when the 341's came in....?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2014, 05:01:39 PM »

In my humble opinion, that would not be unusual.  There is almost always some overlap.

For example, on the weekend I saw Muncie M20 assembled in August of 1969, with a 1970 VIN on it (I think for a Buick).  It had the 660 case but with both a drain and a fill plug - and used the 1970 style plugs. 
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2014, 05:04:31 PM »

well I guess there is always some exception to the rule.. Cheesy
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2014, 09:37:25 PM »

In my humble opinion, that would not be unusual.  There is almost always some overlap.

For example, on the weekend I saw Muncie M20 assembled in August of 1969, with a 1970 VIN on it (I think for a Buick).  It had the 660 case but with both a drain and a fill plug - and used the 1970 style plugs. 

How is that unusual Bryon?   An August '69 Muncie trans for a Buick would be going into a '70 model Buick wouldn't it?   Typically model changeover during those days was July for the transition, and by late July and August they are building for the new model year..
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2014, 11:22:16 PM »

Gary, on the transmission, Yes, an August of 69 assembly sure could go into an early 70 Buick. No issue there.

There is some overlap on the 3925660 and 3925661 cases early in the 1970 model year (and in the extended 1969 Camaro production).  

The anomaly is that from what I have seen, any 3925660 cases used early in the 1970 model year with both a fill and drain plug were M22s.  The one I saw was definitely an M20 and it appeared to be all original, with both an original fill plug and an original drain plug.  

All 3925661 cases that I have seen had a fill plug and a drain plug.  
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 12:44:26 PM by bcmiller » Logged

1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2014, 11:25:10 PM »

sorry just noticed this thread.  Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

This stamping looks anomalous.  I have consulted with others, so it is not just my opinion.  Sorry.

It also does not appear to fit well in the 2 letter / 3 letter code data.  I am going to modify my list of summarized data in the previous post above.  

Any late July or early August axle assembly data (plus casting number and casting date) will be greatly appreciated.  Post pics if possible.
 
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2014, 12:07:23 AM »

Austin,
The axle stamp does not appear to be like other typical stamps that we have seen due to spacing. I know a lot of the history of your car is known, but it is not a typical stamp.
To help reduce possible distortion of the data, it will not be included with the other data gathered until other stamp photos corroborate it as a production anomaly.
Thanks!
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« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2014, 06:34:37 AM »

Kurt,

Thanks for putting those threads back in and for *improving* some of the wording... Smiley 
.. maybe you can give Bullitt an opportunity to 'reword' some of his original post(s) - eliminate use of the word 'ethics' from the title and text and perhaps improve some of HIS OWN wording - now that he's had a week to think about things...?   Smiley

(I'll be away this week for the CNA convention, but I wanted to Thank You first for trying to cool down some of the heat, and to Thank Ed Bertrand publicly for all his contributions and help in the past..... Smiley

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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2014, 08:04:29 PM »

Hope this helps.
Here is my 07A X77 rear stamping and casting date photos. With the Norwood factory shutting down July 11th and not starting up again until August 11th I think my car would have been one of the last Z's built before the shutdown. My NCRS production date was July 10th.

VIN 9N6687XX
BU 0630 G2
E 26 9 casting date
#860NF
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
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« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2014, 09:42:27 PM »

Interesting. So the cars that are 7A or 8A were they the cars that they assembled out of the rest of the parts that were on hand, until production started back up?
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1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV
6667ss138
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« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2014, 09:53:39 PM »

I think so because I have a LOT of original May dated parts still on my car. I figure they were winding down and using up everything laying around knowing the shut down was coming. Trying to get rid of parts inventory.
According to William there were no cars manufactured at Norwood after July 11th until August 11th.
I will also ad that it would be surprising if they used up "everything" before the shut down so therefore I would assume that there were still parts around to be used up on the early August cars when production resumed on August 11th but that is only a guess.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12251.0
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
bcmiller
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« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2014, 08:15:33 AM »

6667ss138 -

Thanks for posting the information from your car.  I appreciate it.
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2014, 12:25:13 PM »

6667ss138 -

Thanks for posting the information from your car.  I appreciate it.
Thank you Bryon!
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Len H.  Kansas
1969 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, complete 3 owner history
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, original CA black plates
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« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2014, 11:42:57 AM »

Found this on craigslist.

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Darrell Cook

1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28
bcmiller
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« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2014, 11:09:50 PM »

Thanks Darrell.

Looks like

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 1028
341, cast J 3 9 or J 8 9
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2014, 09:34:56 PM »

3894860NF
A239
BU 0128 E

It is in my '68.  So, no '69 build date or VIN...

« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 09:50:12 PM by bcmiller » Logged
bcmiller
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« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2014, 09:51:18 PM »

Looks like 0128 is the date.  You had 0218, so I modified your post so it matches the picture.

Thanks!
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1968 Camaro SS - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Bryon
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