Author Topic: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles  (Read 24046 times)

bcmiller

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Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« on: January 09, 2013, 03:48:08 AM »
It appears that 12 bolt rear axles with casting number 3969341 started showing up in 69 Camaros sometime around early August of 1969.  Prior to this, only the 3894860 casting number was used.  

What I am looking for are dates (casting date of housing and assembly date stamp - with letter codes - on the axle tube) for early 3969341 axles and late 3894860 axles.  If you know it is original to the car, you can post the body assembly date from the cowl tag too.

Please let me know what you have.  Post pics if possible.  There was probably somewhat of an overlap, but not sure how much.    

Thanks in advance!

Bryon

1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

x77-69z28

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 07:30:37 AM »
Where are the casting numbers?
69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
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bertfam

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 05:08:22 PM »
Here you go.

Ed


bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 11:33:47 PM »
09A Dusk Blue Z28 124379N680789
12-bolt 3:73 Posi:
assembly stamp C BU 0828
                           E
Casting # 3969341
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

KurtS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 02:06:11 AM »
I parted out 9N677954  CBS0805G  341, cast G259. I only know of 2 341's before that one. There have to be more.....

Not a lot of axle casting data on these late cars in the db.
Kurt S
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 05:22:18 AM »
My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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x77-69z28

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 07:09:30 AM »
Here you go.

Ed
Oh. Thought he was talking about the axles themselves! Duh!!!

69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!

69glacierblue

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 04:11:27 AM »
Maybe a little earlier than you want, but here goes:
06A
9N665238
BM0625G
Cast 860

Dennis
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bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 06:33:47 AM »
Keep the information flowing guys. Thanks for the replies so far!
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 08:20:45 PM »
Build date 08E (Z28)
Casting number 3969341
Assembly stamp CBU 0828 G2
Casting date H139
                           
Sonny

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bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 11:19:45 PM »
My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary

Gary, is it stamped BU or CBU?  The one Kurt posted had a casting date earlier than yours and it used the 3 letter code. 

I am just trying to see if maybe the casting date change corresponded with the change from 2 letter codes to 3 letter codes.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 11:20:42 PM »
Build date 08E (Z28)
Casting number 3969341
Assembly stamp CBU 0828 G2
Casting date H139

Thanks! 
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 04:48:37 AM »
My 09C Z28/RS has the 3969341 rear, stamped BU0828

Gary

Gary, is it stamped BU or CBU?  The one Kurt posted had a casting date earlier than yours and it used the 3 letter code.  

I am just trying to see if maybe the casting date change corresponded with the change from 2 letter codes to 3 letter codes.

only 'BU'...  2 letter code..   (see photo attached)
and actually I see that I posted the incorrect date...   BU0829G1 ....
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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KurtS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 06:06:05 AM »
That looks like a C to the left of the BU. Pretty hard to see...
Kurt S
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 01:46:37 PM »
..  then you have better eyes or a better imagination than I, Kurt..  :)
Do you have a photo of a CBU stamp?  I don't think I've ever seen one, so maybe it's not like I was expecting..?
or maybe Bryon can post a pix of his as he has a C BU code??
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

paceme

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 12:35:25 AM »
Gary my car is a 9A and is coded C  BU date is 82X I believe either a 6 or 8. I think the exhaust system had rubbed against the tube and now the last digit is hard to identify.
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mickeystoys69RSSS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 03:47:36 PM »
No help in answering your question because my 69 is an early build 11C '68.

K 88 dated 860 casting with BI1115G1 assembly.

restore-z28

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2013, 04:29:50 PM »
Do you have a photo of a CBU stamp?  I don't think I've ever seen one, so maybe it's not like I was expecting..?
or maybe Bryon can post a pix of his as he has a C BU code??

Here you go Gary....


Sonny

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2013, 07:50:47 PM »
Thanks for the photo Sonny.  It's interesting to see how much separation there is in the 'C' and the 'BU'.   Does anyone have any idea why the separation?  stamped separately?  or ??  if so, maybe the 'C' is carrying some other piece of information we aren't aware of?
and seeing the separation, perhaps Kurt was correct, and there 'was' a 'C' before my BU code, but if so, it was apparetly hit by a highway rock, or debris, and became obscured to the point it is no longer clear.
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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KurtS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 04:36:22 PM »
I think the axle stamp didn't have a place for the extra C character. Not sure how they handled it, but the letters are spaced like that.
Kurt S
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bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 03:00:30 AM »
I agree with Kurt, I think it is C BU.

I am starting to think more that the 3 letter code started when the casting number changed to 3969341.  But more data points are needed.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 02:11:23 PM »
I went back to the CRG data on differentials, and it says the 3 letter code began wtih the '70 model year, and the 'C' represented 'cars' (I supposed as opposed to truck differentials?)..  Given that, it makes sense that at the time they would have normally began building the new model year (late July or August or so?), they would have began using the new parts; as they did for a number of different items on our late '69 cars; several items are labeled as, or carry characteristics of the '70 model year, rather than the '69 model year.
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2013, 07:15:32 PM »
The space between the C and the other two letters of the code is there for most (I am not quite sure I can say all) cases that I have seen for late 69 Model year and early 1970 model year Camaros.  It is not always there for Chevelles. 

Attached is a 1970 C OZ code that shows similar spacing.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2013, 05:20:28 PM »
The attached image is from an Impala.  Casting number is 3969341 with casting date I 5 9.  Just for additional reference.  It has the C before the FW.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 07:06:28 PM »
Saw this one yesterday but did not get a picture.  Was in a 70 Camaro at one time so perches had been moved.  Was either in a 70 Nova or 69 Camaro originally from what I could tell.
Casting number  3894860
Casting date      F 24 9
Stamped code   C BM 0807G1

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 07:35:54 PM by bcmiller »
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 12:14:48 AM »
I wish I had better pics for you, but my rear end isn't there yet...

Casting Number 3969341
Casting Date H 11 9
Stamped Code C BS 0820G2





Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS
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bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 02:57:26 AM »
Thanks for posting the pics!
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 07:59:13 AM »
sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

SgtHawkUSMC

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 04:57:15 PM »
sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.
That's interesting. Five days between your rear end and mine and yours isn't a "C" rear end. Gary's is 9 days after mine and it isn't a "C" rear end either.
Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 05:14:09 PM »
Nope..   Gary's IS a C rear end..  although the C is partially obscured by an 'impact' wtih a rock or something in the past..?
(Bryan and Kurt finally convinced me there was a 'C' out there in front of the BU..)

see image here..     http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10375.0;attach=10540;image
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

SgtHawkUSMC

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 08:11:07 PM »
Nope..   Gary's IS a C rear end..  although the C is partially obscured by an 'impact' wtih a rock or something in the past..?
(Bryan and Kurt finally convinced me there was a 'C' out there in front of the BU..)

see image here..     http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10375.0;attach=10540;image
Gotcha. I think I can barely see it now. That makes sense.
Hawk
69 SS396 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2014, 03:50:59 AM »
sorry just noticed this thread
Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

Do you have the casting number and casting date from this rear?  Maybe I missed it in an earlier post?
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 06:00:07 AM »
I am going to have look through my archive of pics, since I am not near the car right now.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2014, 06:57:04 PM »
OK, please post up that data when you have a chance.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

wisemanz28

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2014, 01:29:23 AM »
I have a 860 C.B.U. rear end, casting is  September 6th of 1969 and axle stamped 9 16. I will try to post pics of the C.B.U. axle stamp tomorrow.

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2014, 11:41:47 PM »
I was incorrect , my rear end is not a 860 casting it is a 341 casting with a CBU 9 16 tube date and a J 6 casting. I took pics but not sure how to post on this site. My TT has a 9 A date ( 1st week of September) so my rear end is a little late for my car. I see some fellow members on this post have good dates that would be correct for my car. I'm assuming the rear ends are under there cars but if not are any of you guys interested in selling or trading your rear end ? 

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 01:02:08 PM »
Kurt would be able to answer better, but your axle stamped CBU0916 may be OK for your car.  

You can send pics to my email and I will post them if you want. Click on my username to get my contact info.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 01:43:21 PM »
Ok Gary got me back under my car and I got the rest of the info. I have the 3969341 rear end, dated (I think ) G 25. So far it looks like the only one with 341 casting but still has just the 2 letter format.
There are a couple of other 08C guys on here ( Sonny, vellu, Jims69, and nick -Daytona Yellow 69 Z)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 01:46:50 PM »
I just went through my correspondence with Jim, and his vin is a couple of hundred after mine and his rear end is the 3 letter format. Hopefully he will chime in with his info. So mine may be one of the last of the 2 letter format, and Jims may be one of the first for the 3 letter format.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2014, 02:03:22 PM »
Bullitt's 0815, without the C (but with the 341 rear), and Sarge's WITH the C, stamped 0820..  pretty well brackets the change to use of the 'C' (1970 format) to between the dates of 15 August and 20August 1969.   Bullitt's diff is the later casting number, but without the 'C', so that seems to imply that the two changes (C) and 341 casting, did not occurr simultaneously...

The rear end casting, and use of the 'C' in front of the diff app stamp are two more items to add to our list of intended 1970 changes that were applied to 'late 1969 extended production of Camaros and Corvettes.   I think it would be a good research report to itemize all the things that 'changed', as well as best known dates of change, for late production, and would be useful in the generation of an 'ultimate' Restoration and judging reference manual for Camaros.
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2014, 02:10:08 PM »
Actually Jims69 will bracket it better, his car is about 197 after mine and his has the C. I sent him a message hopefully he can post the casting and date on his.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2014, 02:49:52 PM »
Actually Jims69 will bracket it better, his car is about 197 after mine and his has the C. I sent him a message hopefully he can post the casting and date on his.

Wow..   197 cars is like a few hours, unless it's the end of one day/beginning of the next day production, OR with it being a new thing (stamping the C) in the differential plant, perhaps they just weren't consistent yet..?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2014, 04:24:23 PM »
We are getting closer on this.  When you post, make sure you include not only the casting number and casting date, but the COMPLETE data on the assembly stamp. That includes 2 or 3 letter code, date code, assembly plant and shift.  

And having pics to back up the data would be great.

Will get something written up when things are closer to final.

Thanks!
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2014, 05:29:05 PM »
You saw my earlier post with the pic of the stamp right?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2014, 05:45:08 PM »
Yes, I see it now.  

sorry just noticed this thread Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

You also said
Quote
I have the 3969341 rear end, dated (I think ) G 25.

Can you post a picture of the casting date please?
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2014, 05:51:56 PM »
I am going to try to summarize what we have so far and put into one post.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2014, 06:04:16 PM »
Sorry, my rear end is in the car. I tried to get off some undercoating and wire brush it, and while I can "see" it I can't get the camera at the right angle to capture it. I can try again in a few days when I am by the car again.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2014, 09:35:31 PM »
OK, I went through what we have so far and tried to put them in order.  It is more difficult to put the data together if everything is not in one post.  Let me know if you see errors.

Looks like we have at least a few days of overlap of the housings used in early August at the axle assembly plants. Not surprising.

06A - 9N665238
BM 0625G
860

9N677954  
C BS 0805G  
341, cast G 25 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BM 0807G1
860, cast F 24 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 0820G2
341, cast H 11 9

08E  
C BU 0828 G2
341, cast H 13 9

09A - 9N680789
C BU 0828    
341

09A
C  BU date is 82X
xxx

09C
CB U 0829G1
341

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BU 0916
341, cast J 6 9
                        
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 04:25:52 AM by bcmiller »
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2014, 09:40:34 PM »


Looks like we have some overlap in early August.

06A - 9N665238
BM 0625G
860

08C N672394
BU 0815G2
341, cast G 25 9


9N677954 
C BS 0805G 
341, cast G 25 9

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BM 0807G1
860, cast F 24 9



Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 0820G2
341, cast H 11 9

08E 
C BU 0828 G2
341, cast H 13 9

09A - 9N680789
C BU 0828     
341

09C
CB U 0829G1
341

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BU 0916
341, cast J 6 9
                         
(I added my partial vin, and moved myself in the order)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2014, 09:50:25 PM »
That's fine. I am trying to look at the data right now by assembly date stamp.

And I can go back to modify my posts.   :)
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2014, 09:55:44 PM »
well that F24 860 must have been on the back of the rack when the 341's came in....?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2014, 10:01:39 PM »
In my humble opinion, that would not be unusual.  There is almost always some overlap.

For example, on the weekend I saw Muncie M20 assembled in August of 1969, with a 1970 VIN on it (I think for a Buick).  It had the 660 case but with both a drain and a fill plug - and used the 1970 style plugs. 
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2014, 10:04:31 PM »
well I guess there is always some exception to the rule.. :D
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2014, 02:37:25 AM »
In my humble opinion, that would not be unusual.  There is almost always some overlap.

For example, on the weekend I saw Muncie M20 assembled in August of 1969, with a 1970 VIN on it (I think for a Buick).  It had the 660 case but with both a drain and a fill plug - and used the 1970 style plugs. 

How is that unusual Bryon?   An August '69 Muncie trans for a Buick would be going into a '70 model Buick wouldn't it?   Typically model changeover during those days was July for the transition, and by late July and August they are building for the new model year..
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69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2014, 04:22:16 AM »
Gary, on the transmission, Yes, an August of 69 assembly sure could go into an early 70 Buick. No issue there.

There is some overlap on the 3925660 and 3925661 cases early in the 1970 model year (and in the extended 1969 Camaro production).  

The anomaly is that from what I have seen, any 3925660 cases used early in the 1970 model year with both a fill and drain plug were M22s.  The one I saw was definitely an M20 and it appeared to be all original, with both an original fill plug and an original drain plug.  

All 3925661 cases that I have seen had a fill plug and a drain plug.  
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:44:26 PM by bcmiller »
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2014, 04:25:10 AM »
sorry just noticed this thread.  Here is a pic of mine from a 08C ( August of 69) car.

This stamping looks anomalous.  I have consulted with others, so it is not just my opinion.  Sorry.

It also does not appear to fit well in the 2 letter / 3 letter code data.  I am going to modify my list of summarized data in the previous post above.  

Any late July or early August axle assembly data (plus casting number and casting date) will be greatly appreciated.  Post pics if possible.
 
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2014, 05:07:23 AM »
Austin,
The axle stamp does not appear to be like other typical stamps that we have seen due to spacing. I know a lot of the history of your car is known, but it is not a typical stamp.
To help reduce possible distortion of the data, it will not be included with the other data gathered until other stamp photos corroborate it as a production anomaly.
Thanks!
Kurt S
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2014, 11:34:37 AM »
Kurt,

Thanks for putting those threads back in and for *improving* some of the wording... :) 
.. maybe you can give Bullitt an opportunity to 'reword' some of his original post(s) - eliminate use of the word 'ethics' from the title and text and perhaps improve some of HIS OWN wording - now that he's had a week to think about things...?   :)

(I'll be away this week for the CNA convention, but I wanted to Thank You first for trying to cool down some of the heat, and to Thank Ed Bertrand publicly for all his contributions and help in the past..... :)

Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2014, 01:04:29 AM »
Hope this helps.
Here is my 07A X77 rear stamping and casting date photos. With the Norwood factory shutting down July 11th and not starting up again until August 11th I think my car would have been one of the last Z's built before the shutdown. My NCRS production date was July 10th.

VIN 9N6687XX
BU 0630 G2
E 26 9 casting date
#860NF
Len H.  Kansas
1969 Z/28 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, born with drive train, complete 3 owner history.
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, born with drive train, original CA black plates

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2014, 02:42:27 AM »
Interesting. So the cars that are 7A or 8A were they the cars that they assembled out of the rest of the parts that were on hand, until production started back up?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2014, 02:53:39 AM »
I think so because I have a LOT of original May dated parts still on my car. I figure they were winding down and using up everything laying around knowing the shut down was coming. Trying to get rid of parts inventory.
According to William there were no cars manufactured at Norwood after July 11th until August 11th.
I will also ad that it would be surprising if they used up "everything" before the shut down so therefore I would assume that there were still parts around to be used up on the early August cars when production resumed on August 11th but that is only a guess.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12251.0
Len H.  Kansas
1969 Z/28 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, born with drive train, complete 3 owner history.
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, born with drive train, original CA black plates

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2014, 01:15:33 PM »
6667ss138 -

Thanks for posting the information from your car.  I appreciate it.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2014, 05:25:13 PM »
6667ss138 -

Thanks for posting the information from your car.  I appreciate it.
Thank you Bryon!
Len H.  Kansas
1969 Z/28 07A X77D80 Hugger Orange/Black Vinyl Top, born with drive train, complete 3 owner history.
1967 Chevelle SS396 138 Convertible/Red/Black int.
1966 Chevelle SS396 138 4sp California/Smog/Black/Red int. POP, born with drive train, original CA black plates

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2014, 04:42:57 PM »
Found this on craigslist.

Darrell Cook
1967 LeMans Blue SS/RS L35 clone
1968 Rallye Green SS L78 - unrestored original
1968 Matador Red Z28

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2014, 04:09:50 AM »
Thanks Darrell.

Looks like

Build week and/or VIN ?
C BS 1028
341, cast J 3 9 or J 8 9
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2014, 02:34:56 AM »
3894860NF
A239
BU 0128 E

It is in my '68.  So, no '69 build date or VIN...

« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 02:50:12 AM by bcmiller »

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2014, 02:51:18 AM »
Looks like 0128 is the date.  You had 0218, so I modified your post so it matches the picture.

Thanks!
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2015, 01:06:16 AM »
Here's an early 341.
08C CBL0806G1  I don't know the casting date.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2015, 01:39:22 AM »
Was the axel code " C BL" the last thing to get stamped ?

It looks like most rear ends the date is gang stamped, but the letters hand stamped?

Also, Kurt do you know the vin of that car?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2015, 03:43:54 AM »
Thanks Kurt!  Here is another one.  

341 casting number
CBS 0829G1
Casting date H 17 9

Can't verify it is a Camaro axle.  Might be from a 70 Nova.  It was found under a pickup truck. 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 04:36:38 AM by bcmiller »
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2015, 05:38:24 AM »
08E Z28, "341" cast number , BU0828G2

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2015, 06:52:27 AM »
Just to clarify-
That looks like C BU 0828G2
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2015, 02:20:42 PM »
Here is what we have so far - arranged by axle date..  We need more data points for axle assembly dates between late June and early August.  

06A - 9N665238
BM 0625G
860, casting date unknown

07A - 9N6687XX
BU 0630G2
860, casting date E 26 9

08E  9N677954
C BS 0805G  
341, casting date G 25 9

08C
C BL 0806G1  
341, casting date G 23 9

Unknown build week and/or VIN
C BM 0807G1
860, casting date F 24 9

08D  9N6745xx
C BU 0818G2
unknown casting number or date

08D
C BS 0820G2
341, casting date H 11 9

08E  
C BU 0828G2
341, casting date H 13 9

08E
C BU 0828G2
341, unknown casting date

09A - 9N680789
C BU 0828    
341, casting date unknown

09A
C BU 0826 or 0828
unknown casting number or date

09C
C BU 0829G1
341, casting date G 31 9

Unknown build week and/or VIN
C BS 0829G1
341, casting date H 17 9

09C   9N685397
C BU 0910G1
341, casting date I 2 9

Unknown build week and/or VIN
C BU 0916
341, casting date I 6 9 (changed to I 6 9 - could not be J 6 9, J is October)

Unknown build week and/or VIN
C BS 1028G1
341, casting date J 3 9
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 02:15:41 AM by bcmiller »
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2015, 02:43:45 PM »
Bryon,

After noticing that I failed to provide you my cast date, I checked some photos of my differential made when I was cleaning it, and found one with the cast date..  G 31 9

Please update the following entry in your data...

09C
CB U 0829G1
341, unknown casting date  G 31 9
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2015, 02:51:32 PM »
Got it.  Thanks Gary!
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2015, 08:25:33 AM »
Austin,
The axle stamp does not appear to be like other typical stamps that we have seen due to spacing. I know a lot of the history of your car is known, but it is not a typical stamp.
To help reduce possible distortion of the data, it will not be included with the other data gathered until other stamp photos corroborate it as a production anomaly.
Thanks!
Kurt another piece of info that you may want keep as a side note is John Berry's 08A car has a correctly dated rear end with the original axel tubes, but does not have any stamp present. I know originally it was thought that it was a replacement that happen to fit date wise, but maybe the time frame of early August of 69 there was something weird going on with the rear end stamping process? It would be nice to find more cars between his and mine that have there original rear end stamp. :)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2015, 03:23:16 PM »
There are a few known replacement axles out there.  Nothing unusual happened with the stamping process around that time as far as we know.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2015, 03:35:29 PM »
I am sure replacements are out there. I just thought it was interesting that if it was a replacement, that it still had a good date for his car, I believe.

Also there was a couple of breaks in production around that time frame of late July beginning of August, and I think there are some mysteries from the factory that may never be solved.

 I'm just putting it out there as a side note, and hope to see more cars found within that time frame is all.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2015, 04:02:28 PM »
There was probably a higher than normal need for replacement axles around this time based on the track and street racing that was taking place. COPOs, L78s, etc.  And the Novas used the same axle, so that added to the need as well.
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2015, 04:19:29 PM »
There was probably a higher than normal need for replacement axles around this time based on the track and street racing that was taking place. COPOs, L78s, etc.  And the Novas used the same axle, so that added to the need as well. 

A couple of possible answers to the question that Bullitt raised about 'no stamping' on the axle...  besides oversight.. is this:
1) Did replacement differentials (bought OTC) have the same date stampings?  (I'm guessing they probably did if they were complete rears)..
2) BUT... a replacement housing (no gears/axles/etc) would probably NOT be stamped, since it was sold without gears, etc.  I suspect this was what happened to the car that Bullitt questioned...

Note:  With the '70 models changing axle length, isn't it 'likely' that GM parts depots would stock spares for the '67/8/9 differentials??   and the cast dates on those 'spare parts' would more than likely occur near the end of the production year.. and August '69 would qualify for such a period?
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2015, 06:08:04 PM »
Gary, I believe into the 1971 model year, the Nova 12 bolts used the same dimensions as the 67-69 Camaro.

I will stick with the thinking in my previous post, at least for now.   :)
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2015, 08:00:58 PM »
Byron,

I think we're saying the same thing, that the 'unstamped' differential was likely an over the counter replacement axle housing...  at least that was what I was trying to suggest, and I *think* you were saying...  :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2015, 01:36:13 AM »
Gary, it is my understanding that a replacement empty housing would not be stamped.  So yes, I think we are saying the same thing.

I don't think they would stockpile extra housings though, since the same housing was used for Novas up into the 1971 model year. 

JohnZ or someone else would probably be able to answer better, but I believe that "in general" - service parts were produced based on demand. 
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2015, 01:43:44 AM »
I have seen 2 - Z28,s now with what I think are replacement hsgs under warranty. Both were "341 housings. 1 was a 02B Van Nuys car and the other a 11A Norwood Z. Both axle housing were cast date D-9?-1 ( might have been D-7-1), and neither car had any numbers on the tube.
 The 02B car had Dec/68 dated 373 gears and posi as well as original GM brake shoes and backing plates/axles etc. Housing appeared to be bare steel, looked newer than other components but the brakes backing plates/diff cover were black and appeared older.
 If cars ripped the spring perches off ( they wheel hopped without traction bars) while under the 5 yr warranty period, did GM just change the housing and reinstall the other diff parts?

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #84 on: March 01, 2015, 06:06:41 PM »
I added the cast date to the 0806 axle and added an 0818 axle too.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #85 on: March 01, 2015, 06:57:23 PM »
Ft
There was probably a higher than normal need for replacement axles around this time based on the track and street racing that was taking place. Coops, L78s, etc.  And the Novas used the same axle, so that added to the need as well. 

A couple of possible answers to the question that Bullitt raised about 'no stamping' on the axle...  besides oversight.. is this:
1) Did replacement differentials (bought OTC) have the same date stampings?  (I'm guessing they probably did if they were complete rears)..
2) BUT... a replacement housing (no gears/axles/etc) would probably NOT be stamped, since it was sold without gears, etc.  I suspect this was what happened to the car that Bullitt questioned...

Note:  With the '70 models changing axle length, isn't it 'likely' that GM parts depots would stock spares for the '67/8/9 differentials??   and the cast dates on those 'spare parts' would more than likely occur near the end of the production year.. and August '69 would qualify for such a period?

Question: wouldn't they still have a date stamp, but not the two letter code for ratio? Also if the rear end already had a casting date, why would there be a need to stamp the date of assembly( quality  control?) Further  why  does it appear that the two letter axel code looks stamped separately from the date, and looks to be hand stamped, along with the "E" below?
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2015, 08:16:29 PM »
I am going to give my opinion but JohnZ or someone else may be able to answer better.

A complete rear axle for service/warranty would have an assembly stamp with ratio code.  These would not be common, in fact they would probably be pretty RARE. 

In most cases, only the bad parts would be replaced.  For example, see the post made by rszmjt above.  It appears that just the housing was replaced and other parts were reused.
A bare housing for service/warranty - would not have received an assembly stamp at the axle plant since it was not "an assembly".

Austin, I don't have an answer to every question and it is probably not in our best interest to answer every question anyway.  Those searching for information on how to restamp parts can see the same posts that we can.  That is why certain details about how or why tags / or drivetrain stamps were made or specific details will not be discussed.  Sorry, but that is the way it is. 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 08:47:58 PM by bcmiller »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2015, 08:17:07 PM »
I added the cast date to the 0806 axle and added an 0818 axle too.

Thanks Kurt!
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2015, 09:18:38 PM »
I understand, just trying to piece it all together like everyone else on here. Some things are easy to extrapolate, others are still puzzling.
Also in looking at the pic you posted from reply #69 on this thread, it looks like the "C" was double stamped (look to the left), and possibly some other numbers as well?
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #89 on: March 01, 2015, 09:30:38 PM »
Yes, it appears that at least part of that axle assembly information was stamped at least twice on that particular housing.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2015, 07:07:50 PM »
Well just saw another 08A car ( N667270) at a show, it also had the 341 rear, and curiously enough no stamp on the axle tube. Could be just coincidence
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #91 on: March 30, 2015, 07:58:32 PM »
Well just saw another 08A car ( N667270) at a show, it also had the 341 rear, and curiously enough no stamp on the axle tube. Could be just coincidence

Are you sure?  I think that VIN should have an 07A tag.  And should be a 3894860 casting on the axle.  Did you see the casting date on the center of the housing?

Was it a Z?
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #92 on: March 30, 2015, 08:04:26 PM »
sorry my mistake, it was a 860. It was a 08A on the tag could have been a repo tag I suppose? It was presented as a Z/28. I could not see the casting date on the housing, ( It was at a car show, not on jack stands or a rack). He let one of us go underneath with a small light and see the stamping on the axle tube, but there wasn't any it was smooth. I went under just to identify which housing, (860).
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #93 on: March 30, 2015, 08:08:38 PM »
It was a 08A on the tag could have been a repo tag I suppose?

Kurt would be able to answer that question better. 

But I think other VINs close to that are 07A.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #94 on: March 31, 2015, 03:41:29 AM »
It was a 08A on the tag could have been a repo tag I suppose?

Kurt would be able to answer that question better.  

But I think other VINs close to that are 07A.

That VIN is 3260 or so into July's production total of 5111, but that is a 'funny month', in that only about 1/3 as many Camaros as a normal month are shown as being produced that month.  I have wondered if production stopped around 11 July for some reason and not resumed until around 11 August??
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2015, 03:01:44 PM »
July had/has a 2-week shutdown, used for retooling the line for the next model year.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2015, 03:29:36 PM »
July had/has a 2-week shutdown, used for retooling the line for the next model year.

For a normal year yes, but ... for '69 they continued current production for 5 more months.   Was the shutdown related to a union contract (ie. the workers expect the 2 weeks off in July?) or Was the extended production 'in doubt' at that time in July??  or ??   

August also had reduced production.. as if they were still shut down for half of that month...  Any idea on the reason for that?
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2015, 04:38:29 PM »
Not sure how accurate this is but this is what I have been told over the years.  GM always shutdowns during the July time frame (and still do).  Since there were other cars that were built at NOR & LOS along with the stamping dies discovered being incorrect for the 70 model they had to back pedal due to the led time to have another die made causing the lengthening of the 69 production life..  Im sure this caused suppliers to have to build back up enough units to cover the extended run which in turned caused a slowing of production during August.

Hopefully someone can confirm whether or not this is the truth.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2015, 05:38:25 PM »
That's been sorta my thought a well Darrel, but I've never read/heard an official GM explanation..  it certainly makes sense to me.   30June has typically been the 'end of a model year'..  with July timeframe being the changeover (the actual changeover time depends on how much of a tooling change is required).
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2015, 09:11:51 PM »
I am curious, of those that have the "C" stamping on there rear end, does anybody have the protecto plate showing the "C" as well?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 05:28:30 PM by bcmiller »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #100 on: May 11, 2015, 03:46:02 AM »
That's a great question, Austin...  but I assume you mean a protecto plate for a 'late' '69 model Camaro, rather than for a '70 model, but the question really would apply for 70 models also?    The displacement of the 'C' from the rest of the stamped code still bothers me... Did the '70 models have the 'CAAnnnnGz stamp all together?
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2015, 12:54:40 AM »
Axle information for VIN 124379N685397:

09C
C BU 0910G1
341, cast date I 2 9
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 02:12:44 AM by bcmiller »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2015, 01:25:29 AM »
Thanks Rob!  I will add to the summary list above.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 12:33:05 PM by bcmiller »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2015, 03:22:55 AM »
That's a great question, Austin...  but I assume you mean a protecto plate for a 'late' '69 model Camaro, rather than for a '70 model, but the question really would apply for 70 models also?    The displacement of the 'C' from the rest of the stamped code still bothers me... Did the '70 models have the 'CAAnnnnGz stamp all together?

rspallina's rear end data, along with the protecto plate has answered the question if the C would show up on a 1969 Protecto plate!~  It doesn't..  yet his late rear end has the 'C'....
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2015, 10:09:19 PM »
REVISED Axle information for VIN 124379N685397 that now includes casting date:

09C
C BU 0910G1
341, I29
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 12:26:01 AM by rspallina »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2015, 02:12:05 AM »
Thanks Rob!
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2015, 02:36:41 AM »
No problem Bryon - any idea why this date was on opposite side of the 860 casting location where the foundry stamp would be. And as a follow-up to my thread, where is the 341 casting number?  We can't find it in the spot where they are on the 860s.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2015, 02:50:06 AM »
Rob, if the axle is installed in the car - the casting date is normally in the vertical "webbing" area on the top left or top right of the center section.  You will see it looking from the back of the car forward.  May not been in exactly the same place on every axle.

Casting number is normally on the front part of the lower "webbing" on the drivers side.  See this pic.

Edit:  To clarify wording and add back photo.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM by bcmiller »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2015, 03:02:46 AM »
Bryon - the casting date was opposite side on passenger side where pics show foundry to be. But those pics reference an 860 casting and not 341. Darell and I did an extensive search and never found the casting number in the place it should be. Is it possible it wore off...jerry has it in the report. Thinking with these 341s that they, like the cast date, may be opposite side or different spot altogether.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2015, 03:13:53 AM »
Found a Google image of location and just found it 3969341NF...driver side of lower pumpkin facing forward. Maybe you have a new note...casting number location and casting date on 341s not in same location as 860s?  At least based on my location and the pics on this site of the 860s
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 12:26:55 AM by rspallina »
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2015, 03:49:37 AM »
Because of the circumstances, this probably doesn't help you much.
3
41 Cast F 28 9

No assembly code, and never had one.

My car is an 08A car, 671122.  I do not believe the axle is original to the car for several reasons.

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2015, 03:45:17 PM »
Thanks Lynn.  Yes I do remember talking about your housing, which is probably a service replacement. 

Actually the casting date for the 341 housing does help.  The latest 860 housing we have so far has a casting date of F 24 9 (which has a 3 letter ratio code) and your 341 housing is only 4 days later than that.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2015, 05:28:57 PM »
I am curious, of those that have the "C" stamping on there rear end, does anybody have the protecto plate showing the "C" as well?

I don't think you will find that on any POPs.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #113 on: June 12, 2015, 05:19:12 AM »
And for what it is worth, I have a pic of a 1970 Chevelle POP.  Axle assembly date is September and the engine assembly date is November.  The engine code and the axle code on the POP are both 2 letter codes. 
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #114 on: July 01, 2015, 10:08:14 PM »
Austin,
The axle stamp does not appear to be like other typical stamps that we have seen due to spacing. I know a lot of the history of your car is known, but it is not a typical stamp.
To help reduce possible distortion of the data, it will not be included with the other data gathered until other stamp photos corroborate it as a production anomaly.
Thanks!
Kurt another piece of info that you may want keep as a side note is John Berry's 08A car has a correctly dated rear end with the original axel tubes, but does not have any stamp present. I know originally it was thought that it was a replacement that happen to fit date wise, but maybe the time frame of early August of 69 there was something weird going on with the rear end stamping process? It would be nice to find more cars between his and mine that have there original rear end stamp. :)

I did not know this about John Berry's  Z.  It is same week (08A) and only 86 numbers after my car.   I know of several similarities, and talked with John back in the 90's when he still owned the car.  I am curious how certain it is that the rear is original.  Seems strange that are cars are that close and NEITHER of them has the assembly stamp.   I have always just assumed mine was replaced.

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #115 on: July 02, 2015, 02:52:48 AM »
Lynn, have you checked both axle tubes to see if the stamp might be somewhere other than the typical location? 
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #116 on: July 03, 2015, 02:53:15 PM »
I have been all over it.   Even put a micrometer on it to make sure it hadn't been filed off and then sanded down smooth.
Other than not having a stamp, here is why I always believed it to be a service replacement housing.
The original round pinion snubber has a chunk missing.  When I pulled the gas tank, and found the date code, it was dated Jan of 1970.
So, I always assumed there was a catastrophic failure that took a chunk from the snubber and knocked a hole in the tank.

I don't believe the car has ever been out of Oklahoma.   Shipper report confirms it was sold here, but no one has figured out which dealer.  Normally, an Oklahoma car can be traced back to day 1.   But, as luck would have it, mine is one of the few that cannot be traced back.  The Tax Commission (the agency which handles titles in OK,... think of the DMV in most states) lost large portions of information when they changed computer systems in the late 70's.   They don't even have a record of my original purchase in 1976, nor my brother's in 1975.

Attached a clearer shot of the date, as well as a shot of the axle tube.

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #117 on: July 03, 2015, 04:48:53 PM »
Your idea of catastrophic failure makes the most sense to me based on the things you mentioned.

Definitely would like to have more data from the June to September 1969 timeframe.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #118 on: July 03, 2015, 06:18:26 PM »
Your tank is actually spot on. Our cars were produced right when a switch to the 70 model would have occurred. Hence your gas tank dated 1 70. (Mine is dated 2 70). If you go to the gas tank thread you will see you actually have the original correctly dated tank in your car.
Unless you have other evidence, I doubt there was a catastrophic accident....Maybe there was no accident at all.. ;)
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2015, 08:18:16 PM »
I was not aware of the gas tank date thread. Thanks Austin.

Lynn, there could still have been a failure though. Any other signs of that? Dents or signs of repair?

Again we need more data from this time. I have not run across anything unusual from the axle plants for full size or Chevelles. Yet.
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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2015, 09:14:36 PM »
I no longer have the tank.  One of my nephews decided to jack the car up by the gas tank back in the late 80's.   He was about 10 years old at the time.

I did pressurize the tank to pop the dent out, and it wasn't leaking, but it was just too ugly.   I gave it to a local guy who was building a 69 on a tight budget and needed a tank.

I had no idea that tanks were dated as much as 4 months after the car build.  Will have too look for that thread.  Makes no sense.   Perhaps a government worker was put in charge of gas tank dating.

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2015, 09:36:31 PM »
I was not aware of the gas tank date thread. Thanks Austin.

Lynn, there could still have been a failure though. Any other signs of that? Dents or signs of repair?

Again we need more data from this time. I have not run across anything unusual from the axle plants for full size or Chevelles. Yet.
No problem, And I agree it would be nice to find some more cars from this time frame. I don't see to many 08A, or July cars, but I know they are out there.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #122 on: July 04, 2015, 01:50:57 AM »
Lynn, not all government workers are bad.

The coding changed and for your tank the decode was week one of the 1970 model year, not the calendar year. Obviously the Camaro model year for 69 was extended - but the gas tank codes changed.

What I meant was - is there any other damage on the underside of the car that might suggest a failure?
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #123 on: July 04, 2015, 02:27:27 AM »
Lynn,

Your 1  70 tank was from the first week of August...
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

lynnbilodeau

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #124 on: July 04, 2015, 08:28:29 PM »
Lynn, not all government workers are bad.

I know not all Gov workers are bad.  Just easy to make fun of them.... like making fun of lawyers, right?   And I do that too.

There were very minor dents just in front of the pinion snubber, but nothing bigger than a pencil eraser.  I worked them out when I was detailing the floor, and did not have to use any filler.

Yes, I now know the 1 70 tank was first week of Aug.  Just didn't know at the time, and probably would not have used it anyway because of the dented up bottom.

Owning an 08A car has made me take special note over the years when I see one.   Seems that dated components are all over the place.  I have seen an 08A car with a May dated engine, as well as one with an Aug. 2 dated engine.  Engines, alts, distributors and trannys are all over the place, especially transmissions.

Also, 08A is when they started using the mylar vin decal in the door.   I know my car should have received one, but it didn't.  The John Berry car, which probably rolled out the same day, did get the sticker.

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #125 on: July 04, 2015, 08:45:33 PM »
*I am not sure about Johns having the sticker. It has a reproduction sticker on it now, ( you can see a pic of it in Jerrys book), and when I asked about a pic of the original sticker, I was told they never took a picture of it prior to restoration? So, much like Bryon with this thread, I would like to see another 08A car with the original sticker to verify that cars from 08A came with the sticker.
 So far in my research I have Zilch. Earliest I have seen I think was 08E. ( which would have been delivered after September 1st when it was required)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

lynnbilodeau

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #126 on: July 05, 2015, 03:46:36 PM »
I guess I incorrectly assumed that Berry's white Z was an unrestored car.   I have the earlier version of Jerry's book, and IIRC (big if) it just refers to it as a 5000 mile Z.  Don't know why you would restore a 5000 mile car.   But then, mine had only 26000 on it and if DEFINITELY needed restoring.  It had been rode hard and put up wet.
Personally, I don't know that the mileage makes much difference once a car is restored, other than mileage since restoration.

BULLITT65

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #127 on: July 05, 2015, 05:27:36 PM »
Maybe as a testament to how much the car was used? or for a original motor, maybe to indicate that a rebuild wasn't neccessary.

So it sounds like there wasn't any major damage, and its possible your rear end is original to the car. When you purchased the car did they give you any history about the car, or do you by chance still keep in contact with anyone that used to own it? You said your car has been kind of a local car for a while, maybe there are others familiar with your cars history? I am just trying to think of some different ways to figure it out

1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear) please
Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

lynnbilodeau

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #128 on: July 05, 2015, 06:11:26 PM »
My car's history is a complete dead end for anything prior to my brother purchasing in 1975.   He was only 15.   The car was sitting behind a repair shop when he bought it from the business owner.   No one remembers the name of the business.  Years ago I even tracked down the former owner of the building.   Turned out to be a retired judge.  I was able to find him in the 90's.   He  had no recollection of who the tenant was in 75, and told me he had multiple tenants during the 70's but kept no records.
That was my first dead end.   The second one was the Tax Commission "losing" any record of the car prior to my ownership.   They don't even have a record of my brother owning it for that year (I traded for it in 1976).    It really doesn't matter to me if it is the original rear or not.  But.... would be nice to know.


lynnbilodeau

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #129 on: July 05, 2015, 06:49:20 PM »
BTW, there is an 08D Z on ebay.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-/191615774396?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2c9d30aebc&item=191615774396

Had a color change from FG to burgundy, so it will be no help on the sticker issue.  BDY number 103834

bcmiller

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Re: Earliest 3969341 and Latest 3894860 axles
« Reply #130 on: July 10, 2015, 06:37:29 PM »
I started a new thread, which will open things up a bit to include stampings from 10 bolt axles.

Here is the thread.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=13565.0
1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 BBC, M21, 12 bolt.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
Bryon