Author Topic: What Would You Do?  (Read 4266 times)

Vince

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What Would You Do?
« on: September 07, 2011, 09:22:31 PM »
My 1969 Z/28 may be in need of a new transmission given the worst case scenario.  When I was driving it this morning it seemed to be much rougher than normal, sort of like the tires were out of balance or some kind of vibration was happening.  When I went to put the tranny into  first gear to pull away from a stop sign it wouldn't go into gear, any gear.  It was like the shifter was hung up in the neutral position.  I finally was able to get it to go into the position where reverse is, but the car would not move.  When the tow truck driver got there and couldn't winch it onto the flat bed he said that it was stuck in gear.  After fooling around with the linkages from under the car and with my riding in the car and depressing the clutch he was able to get it loaded onto his truck.  My car is currently at the transmission shop, but they haven't got back to me yet with any findings. 
I know that the current tranny in my car is not the original one.  As far as I know it is a M21 from 1966.  I know my car came originallly with a Muncie M21 from the factory.  Now for my questions as I wanted to give as much info as I could.

1.  If it is recommended that I get a new or rebuilt transmission should I get another M21?  Since I cannot get the original one would now be a good time to put a M22 in my car?  I have been thinking about doing this for a couple of years now.
2.  Where is the best place to look into a new M21 or M22?  I have been thinking about Medatronics?
Thanks for any and all input.

Ed B

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 09:56:18 PM »
Vince, there's a very good possibility that the problem is in the shifter itself and NOT in the transmission. When they wear, Hurst shifters are notorious for gettiing stuck between gears. Usually between 1st and 2nd, but it can also get stuck between 3rd and 4th as well.

It's happened to me MANY times in the past (usually when I'm all dressed up!!), and you have to crawl up under the car to get it released.

As a matter of fact, I just bought a new kit to rebuild the one in my 68! It's not hard to rebuild them and there are a few sites that give good instructions. HERE'S one from Yenko.net, and HERE'S another from one of those "other guys" forums. (same basic shifter)

You'll need a kit and HERE'S where I got mine (P/N INL10199) for only $22.00 plus shipping. HERE'S the specific page... (bottom left.)

Back in the olden days when I was young (yes, we had cars back then!), Hurst would rebuild your shifter for free if you brought it to a show, swap meet, a racing event, etc... If they were there, they would always have a few employees that would rebuild your shifter while you wandered around. You can still get it rebuilt by Hurst, but it's FAR from free now. The last time I checked, it was around $200 for them to rebuild it. And really, all it requires are new shim plates. Go figure. However, if you want them to do it, fill out the form on THIS PAGE and in a few weeks it'll come back ready for another 20 years!

Ed
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 10:19:31 PM by Ed Bertrand »

firstgenaddict

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 10:05:50 PM »
I agree with ED, if it is the original shifter with the rubber inserts by all means check that first, however if asking for trans choice advice...
Do you have a reason for wanting a M22  (Same ratios as a M21)other than that ROCKCRUSHER sounds better rolling off the tongue (the trans sounds better to some of us as well)? They are noisy, expensive, and strong... unless you need the STRONG part then why?

Not knowing your rear end ratio assuming a 3.73 or a 4.10...consider a M20.
 
A M20 has a steeper first 2.52 vs a 2.20, which with the 302 is extremely helpful in getting the motor spinning and thus making power.

If you have:
3.73's with a M21 or M22 the effective first ratio is 8.206
4.10's with M21 or M22 effective is 9.020

3.73's with a M20  effective ratio is 9.396  ~ steeper than a 21 with 4.10's... interesting isn't it?
4.10's with M20   effective ratio is 10.332 ~ IMHO this is the COMBO... it will LAUNCH the car in first... also makes it very very difficult to stall the car in first EVER.
 
I hope this makes some sense...

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

1971ls6

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 12:14:33 AM »
Could not agree more. I tested it back to back in my vette with first the wide ratio and 4.11' broke it on the first pass of a 2 day race, changed it out in the pits with the close ratio and lost  3/10ths and 3 mph. I have a real nice liberty built m21 fine spline with a steel mid plate and bushed case that I would love to trade for a wide ratio. When I rebuilt the wide ratio, I went with the m22 wide ratio and the maserio Italian gears. 3.73 gears and m21's are not first gear friendly. I am now running a 4.30, all I need at a stop light is 1st and 4th, 2 speeds are nice on the street.
69 Copo 12.95@113 mph, 2.20 60ft on polyglas
71 LS6 vette 12.31@118 mph PSMCDR

KurtS

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 01:12:04 PM »
Realize the "wide ratio" is only referring to the gap between 3rd and 4th. M20 is better.

Or a Tremec 5-speed.
Kurt S
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L78 steve

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 01:50:00 PM »
If you need a trans built, Medatronics is the place. Go M20. 21's and 22's were for road racing.
69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
70 Nova L78 Blk. Cherry,Sandalwood,M21,02B

JohnZ

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 03:43:18 PM »
You have a common shifter and linkage issue, not a transmission issue.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
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Vince

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 04:39:32 PM »
Thank you all for your answers and insights.  All your combined knowledge regarding Camaros specifically is much appreciated.  I wish I knew 1/10 of what you guys know. 

sftibbs

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 01:54:11 AM »
I'm having a problem removing the shifter. Can the shifter be removed with the transmission in place? Does the shifter mounting bracket need to be removed?
'69 SS350

tmodel66

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 02:00:49 AM »
Yes the shifter comes off in one piece. It unbolts from the transmission.
Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP

sftibbs

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 03:38:59 AM »
I understand that. I have it unbolted and ready to remove but it's getting hung up. Will it come all the way out if I work with it, or does something else (e.g. transmission) need to be removed first. Thanks.

MyRed67

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 04:47:12 AM »
Are you trying to go down and out with the shifter?  Are all the linkage rods removed?
1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
Original Engine   Z - Tribute
Mike C.    NW - Illinois

sftibbs

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 03:23:07 PM »
Yes all linkage is removed, and I want to go down and out with it. Seems to be getting hung up on the mounting bracket and maybe the transmission. If I can finagle it out I will, just wanted to see if someone has had the experience and knows what needs to be done.

Ed B

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 03:38:18 PM »
Did you remove the stick first? It won't come out if the stick is still attached.

And yes, you sometimes have to putz with it a little to get it out!

Ed

sftibbs

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Re: What Would You Do?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 04:07:23 PM »
I havn't done that yet, but I will. When I put it back together, I assume the shifter gets bolted into place and then the stick gets put back in from the top?