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Author Topic: Repo delco moraine boosters.  (Read 5891 times)
JKZ27
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 11:45:52 PM »

I bought a complete 4-piston conversion kit from The Right Stuff for my 68 RS and I got their "correct" Delco stamped booster. I've had it over two years and it looks great and works fine. I drive the car often and sometimes I have to leave it outside. I have never tried to verify its correctness but im very happy with it. Oh, the master cylinder and the hold-off valve were garbage.

John
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JohnZ
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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 10:40:44 AM »

  Maybe John H. can chime in here.

I don't have the Delco drawings, so I don't know if they specified the option of either zinc or cad; I do recall, however, from my many years in the plants in the 60's, that boosters had the distinct goldish (dichromate?) wash appearance. The bright, highly-polished mirror-finish I see occasionally on boosters on some restorations and show cars is certainly NOT typical of factory production. There are many variables that affect plating processes, but knowledgeable restorers like Steve and Jerry have a good handle on what boosters are supposed to look like.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 11:00:35 AM »

One thing I should add is the engineers at APL where I worked back in the 1980's told me that zinc does not hold up as well as the cad process does.  Especially if a vehicle is out in the elements for 35+ years.  That was the first indication to the Johns Hopkins plating shop that boosters were done in cad.  Cadmium is a much more durable plating process than zinc.  I am not expressing opinion here, only stating what engineers told me at the time.  With the environments that our cars live in today, you can pick your choice.  They will both look good.

Jerry   
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william
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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2010, 11:03:04 AM »

Here's a purported photo of a '69 Nova SS as it sat on the lot in '69. As stated, not bright or polished but more gold than the 29 mile LS-6.

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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2010, 11:22:46 AM »

Here is a 13,000 mile survivor 67 Z28.  Note booster is not bright.  Car has been indoors its whole life.

Jerry

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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2010, 11:33:26 AM »

Here's another.  This car was one week old when this photo was shot.  It's the S. Sabitino 67 Z28.  Temp tags were still on the car when this picture was taken in June 1967.

Jerry
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paceme
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 03:56:07 PM »

Here is a 13,000 mile survivor 67 Z28.  Note booster is not bright.  Car has been indoors its whole life.

Jerry


The 67 Z  pictured above was inspected by the Vintage Certification team in 2000. It was clearly established that the engine compartment was restored. quote "it is no longer in as-manufactured condition. Refurbishing has eliminated the ability to establish a preservation rating" The engine compartment along with other areas were deemed restored. Jerry you have a copy of the 2000 report. I believe I was later forwarded pictures of the car with the complete front clip removed, and a note from the then owner thanking the person who restored/refinished the carburetor, booster and hinges. That was a while ago... I will see if I can dig up. Based on the above information and I would not use the 13,000 miles 67 Z’s engine compartment as a reference for factory finishes. Just trying to give accurate information here on the forum.

Steve



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Steve Shauger
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Steve Gregori
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 06:59:47 PM »

Well, we can look at the outside of as many 40 plus year old boosters as you care to post pictures of.  Or try to figure out what we can see in fuzzy 43 year old pictures.  I think the only way to get a clue as to what these boosters looked like when new is to see what's left on the inside of those same boosters.  I saved those pictures I posted for this very reason.  That purported 13,000 mile, completely untouched survivor car looks like someone's bad attempt at restoring a booster.  I've seen many of those too, come through my shop to finally get it right.  As you see in the pictures I posted, the plating is shiny and it does have reds and greens running thru it, not monochrome gold.

Seems like it's difficult for some to acknowledge that those pictures I posted look like zinc plating and not Cadmium and certainly not DULL Cad.  I guess the lab folks missed on that one..........

Instead of trying to direct people to your business by saying that only you have the correct plating, Jerry, maybe you should let our equally knowledgable owners decide for themselves. 

Steve Gregori
Brake Boosters Inc.
www.brakeboosters.com
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KurtS
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »

Welcome Steve and thanks for joining the conversation.

I have some boosters apart and the insides look just like the pictures that Steve G. posted.
The exteriors would have looked the same as the interior new, but oxidize over time.

Knock out the sniping at each other. It may happen on other forums, but it is not acceptable here.
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 09:37:55 PM »

Welcome Steve and thanks for joining the conversation.

I have some boosters apart and the insides look just like the pictures that Steve G. posted.
The exteriors would have looked the same as the interior new, but oxidize over time.

Knock out the sniping at each other. It may happen on other forums, but it is not acceptable here.



















Kurt,

I would like to express one point to Steve Gregori regarding this whole thread and what has been written. 

Steve, I have NEVER tried to sell our work over yours or promote that we are the only shop that does boosters……..or that we do better work!  I want to make that clear!  On the contrary, I have referred many people to you when it comes to someone who needs a booster buffed to remove pits and restored.  I have always spoken highly of your work.  So please, don’t insult me here. 

In this thread I stated that I did a lot of research on the plating back in the 1980’s.  Cadmium work that we did at the Applied Physics Lab looked VERY similar to what the inside of the boosters that you posted here.  What I am stating is that it is my professional opinion through the research I’ve done that boosters were cadmium plated, not zinc.  And that the same shiny rainbow patina with good quality cad plating will look very much the same as the bright yellow zinc.  We have restored thousands too and I know what the plating inside the booster looks like. 

To say that the PHD’s, engineers and lab people I worked with “missed something” in their plating analysis is in very bad taste……..they are a hell of a lot smarter that you and I put together.  Larry Christensen who is also a certified Diamond master judge and well known restorer in the hobby has stated that brake boosters were cadmium plated and not zinc.  This is his research too.

The booster on my survivor Z28 is original.  When the second owner bought the car in 1990, he had sent it down to me.  I told him that it should not be restored because it was a very original booster.  It was not restored and installed back on the car.  Even if it is not to your liking, it’s on the car and will stay on the car as is.

Mr. Shauger and I don’t see eye to eye in the hobby.  And when ever there is an issue that comes up and he’s involved along with myself, there is a mission to make me and my business look bad.

All that said, I want to wish all on this forum, and Steve Gregori,  a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Jerry   


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GI JOE
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« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 11:32:52 PM »

Not to side track much more from the originators questions but in this case of this threads discussion I think it is important to ask at this point, IMHO. 

Does anyone know who the original manufacturing of the boosters were? 

I am assuming that there is likely more than one, since power boosters were used on all cars...  With that said, does anyone know of anyone who is still around that worked at one of these supplier factories?  See where I am going with this? 

BTW, for those who may not remember me, I am the guy who advocates if you must restore, restore it as exactly as you find it!   Merry Xmas my Camaro Gearheads   Grin

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JohnZ
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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 12:11:23 PM »

Does anyone know who the original manufacturing of the boosters were?

As far as I know, Delco-Moraine was the sole supplier of boosters for 1st-gen Camaros (and most other GM cars of the era).
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william
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« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2010, 12:46:01 PM »

That's true but the GM retrofit accessory kit was Bendix for some reason. Had a bunch of those too. Booster was painted black.
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427-KING
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« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 03:38:57 PM »

Steve, what is your turnaround time on boosters,hood hinges and especially bolts[along with minimum order on bolts].  Been looking for a reputable/knowledgeable  plating/rebuilding  source etc for some time.  Its been difficult in the past getting bolts replated as   most platers want 50/100 lb minimum batches locally, which is not a good solution. In addition they certainly dont have the knowledge about proper finishes  etc  . 
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169INDY
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« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2010, 03:40:04 PM »

http://yellowzincplating.com/FAQ/yellow_zinc_electroplating_information.htm

Only the drawing specs mentioned earlier would denote what was required and executed at manufacture of the OEM Parts.

We (@ Puget Sound Naval Shipyard) have (Mil-spec) plated parts for Naval vessels since they installed the First Golden Rivet ,,, The plating shop used Cad as the primary conversion coating until the advent of the AirQuaility & Employee protections and started using Zinc (Inferior) in the 80's. (note the years  i.e. Cad was primary in the 60’s) They can appear cosmetically similar and variables during prep-applic-finish vary as much as making a Micro-Brew. So results will vary. One commonality is age, IT is a sacrificial coating and like a new borns skin the toll of time is manifested in changing appearance. For example you can 'Burn' the plating with ex excessive amperage, duration & solution make up. These affect the Hue & gloss and color. It is easier if you think of plating as equal to painting & the rainbow of outcomes given the variables,,,,,Your best references are poor quality (Not every one shot KodaChrome) day ½ photos and the interior surfaces that have been denied exposure that are the best source of coating appearance.

Orig Poster: Hold out for the Best,a Orig or the BEST repop that becomes avail. you can afford if you car is a Keeper. If your car is a custom or do not care about appearance options are out there, & I was not impressed with a buddies purchase of current repop from a big box vendor.

FWIW I have two Cars,,w/ restored Boosters,,,, 1 West Coast Version & 1 East Coast Version  and have recommended both directions.
I love plating & have tried the Caswell kits, Local closed (Superfund sites now) plate shops, Farmout (Restoration vendors) and Boeing contract plate shops with varying degrees of success. If anything we have over restored these vehicles to points beyond the orig manufactures standards.
Enjoy your car / project


jim
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Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
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