CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 30, 2014, 08:07:46 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
102481 Posts in 12091 Topics by 4669 Members
Latest Member: paulmanta
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  Repo delco moraine boosters.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [All] Print
Author Topic: Repo delco moraine boosters.  (Read 5773 times)
SS396
Member
***
Posts: 51


View Profile
« on: December 22, 2010, 03:31:53 AM »

Am thinking of buying a repo delco moraine booster. Are they rubbish and should I stay away or are some vendors repo's better than others. If youve bought one and not been happy with it for some reason please let me know why. The pitting on mine is way too deep to polish out and replate but I can't afford the prices people are asking for restored original ones. It's just as hard to find a good unrestored core as I'm sure most members have found.
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 10:53:33 AM »

THis is just something to think about.  Steve Gregori at www.Brakeboosters.com did a great job on mine. He has new front and back housings for $125. I would suggest get in touch with him and just replace the front housing.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
jl8dale
Member
***
Posts: 132


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 11:49:34 AM »

I have used Steve twice now on my restorations and he does an outstanding job. I have seen the repro's and they are much duller in appearance compared to his work. I have not heard any complaints on their performance and they look fine on their own, but Steve's finish is superior.
I guess it depends on what your budget is and if you are restoring a driver or more of a show car.
Logged

1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 12:15:44 PM »

Steve is excellent.

In answer to your questions.  The repro boosters are not technically correct.  NG, Do Not Use, ect!  I hate them!  The impressions are wrong, the Delco stamp is wrong (incorrect aspect ratio letters) and not in the true position.  I have talked with the manufacturer about this and they did not seem interested in correcting these issues.

The good news is CHP is now working with Dave Roberts at the Right Stuff.  I sent him some original booster samples and original check valve.  They are going to make the parts right........with good attention to detail. 

We also restore a lot of boosters and that's why Dave reached out to us for advise from a judging standpoint.

Merry Christmas,

Jerry
Camaro Hi-Performance,
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 456


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 12:39:55 PM »

I have used Steve twice now on my restorations and he does an outstanding job. I have seen the repro's and they are much duller in appearance compared to his work. I have not heard any complaints on their performance and they look fine on their own, but Steve's finish is superior.
I guess it depends on what your budget is and if you are restoring a driver or more of a show car.


I have used Steve Gregori for years for all my plating needs. From booster, hinges, caliper brackets to backing plates. He doesn't farm anything out and actually does the plating onsite. Very professional and always a quick turn around.  http://www.brakeboosters.com/



« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 12:58:16 PM by paceme » Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 05:34:07 PM »

Steve actually spends a lot of time on the prepping before plating.  That is the key to having the plating come out nice.  He does send his plating out to a plater to get the actual plating done but he does everything else in-house.

Jerry 
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 456


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 06:28:59 PM »

I tried to correct my post above, but it timed out so I couldn't edit to make the change. What I meant to say was he actually rebuilds the booster on-site where others farm that out. The actual plating is done at specalized plating facilities that require hundreds of thousands of dollars, so it's not cost effective for any specialist (such as Gregori), to have a sustained through put to make it feasible  from a financial perspective. As you state the prep work is key, along with the selected formulated processes.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1158


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 06:37:38 PM »

I have used Steve twice now on my restorations and he does an outstanding job. I have seen the repro's and they are much duller in appearance compared to his work. I have not heard any complaints on their performance and they look fine on their own, but Steve's finish is superior.
I guess it depends on what your budget is and if you are restoring a driver or more of a show car.

Original boosters WERE dull in appearance. The gleaming bright gold finish now common on over-the-top show cars is classic over-restoration. Our business had many NOS boosters over the years and I never saw an original that looked like that. If that's what you want, fine. But it is not original.

Here's a 29 mile LS-6 Chevelle. This is how your restored booster should appear.


Logged
jl8dale
Member
***
Posts: 132


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 10:01:50 AM »

I have used Steve twice now on my restorations and he does an outstanding job. I have seen the repro's and they are much duller in appearance compared to his work. I have not heard any complaints on their performance and they look fine on their own, but Steve's finish is superior.
I guess it depends on what your budget is and if you are restoring a driver or more of a show car.

Original boosters WERE dull in appearance. The gleaming bright gold finish now common on over-the-top show cars is classic over-restoration. Our business had many NOS boosters over the years and I never saw an original that looked like that. If that's what you want, fine. But it is not original.

Here's a 29 mile LS-6 Chevelle. This is how your restored booster should appear.





As SS396 was looking for information on the working condition of a repro booster, I don't think we helped him much. Instead, the discussion has turned to what's original looking and what people feel a restoration should be. He stated he that did not want to spend the big money so functionality seems important to him, not whether it looks original. Not every car owner wants the original look or is even willing or able to pay to get it, that is reality. He didn't even state he is doing a restoration, just whether the repro's are any good for use.
Logged

1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 05:04:02 PM »

Most are done now in yellow zinc which is too bright.......and not original.  We still rebuild (all in house @CHP) and have the original "gold cad" plating on the boosters that we restore.  Only one plating shop in our area tha does the factory cad plating now.  I don't think there are any platers in CA that do factory correct original cad anymore thanks to Pelosi, Feinstein and other nitwits in CA that run their government.

Jerry
Logged
Steve Gregori
Newbie
*
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 07:08:40 PM »

Ii always find it interesting when people become the final word on what's correct and what's not.  After restoring at least 10,000 boosters in the 27 years I've been in business, I guess I can speak with some experience as to what boosters may have looked like when they were new.  When you open up a booster that's had a good life, you can get a real good idea what the outside finish might have looked like when the car was new.  That 29 mile original booster looks like it has lost most of it's gold wash in the 40 years it has been exposed to the atmosphere.  I venture a guess that if it was opened up, it would have a shiny gold finish inside.

Rather than try and promote my business here as others are doing, I will only say that I have had many boosters in my shop that were Cad plated by someone else and they don't look anything like what I see on the inside of original GM boosters. 

I've attached a couple of pictures of original plating on the inside of boosters.  One is a 1970 Chevelle and the other is a 1967 Corvette.  Remember, these pieces are at least 40 years old, so some fading and dulling will happen, even in the best of circumstances.  You can see the plating was indeed shiny zinc.................

Thanks, Steve Gregori  Brake Boosters Inc.
www.brakeboosters.com
Logged
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2142


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 07:26:51 PM »

Steve, how much pitting, etc do you see on the "average" 40 year old booster?
Thanks for your input!
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair -- presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA -- is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast." --September 18-21, 2014
Steve Gregori
Newbie
*
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 07:40:44 PM »

I don't know if there is an average 40 year old booster.  I have some customer's boosters here now that have no pitting on them at all.  Very beautiful when they're done!  The condition of booster is directly related to where they lived their life and whether or not they had brake fluid on their surface for any length of time.  It's getting tougher every year to find mint cores.......

It is possible to have pits polished out, if they're not too deep.  My polisher has been doing that for over 20 years now.
Steve  
Logged
camaronut
Member
***
Posts: 121


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 08:40:38 PM »

Getting back to the original question......I installed a repro from a seller on ebay....and its the same one all of the parts places are selling.....

True....it may not be techniacally correct......(the the big thing is the  "Delco Morraine" wording is not upside down like most originals are)....but ...it works great......and for the price....it's a good replacement unit.....

Personally, its close-enough for me..... Roll Eyes
Logged
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 11:13:40 PM »

Getting back to the original question......I installed a repro from a seller on ebay....and its the same one all of the parts places are selling.....

True....it may not be technically correct......(the the big thing is the  "Delco Morraine" wording is not upside down like most originals are)....but ...it works great......and for the price....it's a good replacement unit.....

Personally, its close-enough for me..... Roll Eyes

That is why we are working with the Right Stuff now as they are interested in having the boosters made as originals were, even if they are reproductions being technically correct from a judging standpoint will be better for the hobby.  Not to mention correct check valves too.

As Steve said, good clean booster cores are hard to find now, and sometimes removing the pits from the front cover can remove the "Delco" stamping.

I will have to disagree w/Steve on the type of plating that was used on original boosters.  Maybe John H. can chime in here.  Back in the early to mid 1980's when I was working at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory, we had our own in-house plating shop as we did a lot of defense work for the gov.  I had metallurgists at the lab conform the plating on the boosters that I brought in to work at that time.  They told me that the boosters were cad plated, not zinc.  There are many different mil specs on plating processes but results can vary depending on which process is used.

Not promoting my business, just trying to give accurate information here on the forum.  CHP is not promoting our booster work as that is only a tiny portion of what we do.  Anyone that goes to our website www.z28camaro.com will see that we offer a very wide of services to our customer base.  And, I have always endorsed Steve and the work that he provides to the restoration community.

Jerry   
Logged
JKZ27
Member
***
Posts: 257



View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 11:45:52 PM »

I bought a complete 4-piston conversion kit from The Right Stuff for my 68 RS and I got their "correct" Delco stamped booster. I've had it over two years and it looks great and works fine. I drive the car often and sometimes I have to leave it outside. I have never tried to verify its correctness but im very happy with it. Oh, the master cylinder and the hold-off valve were garbage.

John
Logged

69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20
79 Z28 Brown LM1 M21
04 SRT 10
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4045


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 10:40:44 AM »

  Maybe John H. can chime in here.

I don't have the Delco drawings, so I don't know if they specified the option of either zinc or cad; I do recall, however, from my many years in the plants in the 60's, that boosters had the distinct goldish (dichromate?) wash appearance. The bright, highly-polished mirror-finish I see occasionally on boosters on some restorations and show cars is certainly NOT typical of factory production. There are many variables that affect plating processes, but knowledgeable restorers like Steve and Jerry have a good handle on what boosters are supposed to look like.
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 11:00:35 AM »

One thing I should add is the engineers at APL where I worked back in the 1980's told me that zinc does not hold up as well as the cad process does.  Especially if a vehicle is out in the elements for 35+ years.  That was the first indication to the Johns Hopkins plating shop that boosters were done in cad.  Cadmium is a much more durable plating process than zinc.  I am not expressing opinion here, only stating what engineers told me at the time.  With the environments that our cars live in today, you can pick your choice.  They will both look good.

Jerry   
Logged
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1158


View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2010, 11:03:04 AM »

Here's a purported photo of a '69 Nova SS as it sat on the lot in '69. As stated, not bright or polished but more gold than the 29 mile LS-6.

Logged
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2010, 11:22:46 AM »

Here is a 13,000 mile survivor 67 Z28.  Note booster is not bright.  Car has been indoors its whole life.

Jerry

Logged
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2010, 11:33:26 AM »

Here's another.  This car was one week old when this photo was shot.  It's the S. Sabitino 67 Z28.  Temp tags were still on the car when this picture was taken in June 1967.

Jerry
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 456


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 03:56:07 PM »

Here is a 13,000 mile survivor 67 Z28.  Note booster is not bright.  Car has been indoors its whole life.

Jerry


The 67 Z  pictured above was inspected by the Vintage Certification team in 2000. It was clearly established that the engine compartment was restored. quote "it is no longer in as-manufactured condition. Refurbishing has eliminated the ability to establish a preservation rating" The engine compartment along with other areas were deemed restored. Jerry you have a copy of the 2000 report. I believe I was later forwarded pictures of the car with the complete front clip removed, and a note from the then owner thanking the person who restored/refinished the carburetor, booster and hinges. That was a while ago... I will see if I can dig up. Based on the above information and I would not use the 13,000 miles 67 Z’s engine compartment as a reference for factory finishes. Just trying to give accurate information here on the forum.

Steve



Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
Steve Gregori
Newbie
*
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 06:59:47 PM »

Well, we can look at the outside of as many 40 plus year old boosters as you care to post pictures of.  Or try to figure out what we can see in fuzzy 43 year old pictures.  I think the only way to get a clue as to what these boosters looked like when new is to see what's left on the inside of those same boosters.  I saved those pictures I posted for this very reason.  That purported 13,000 mile, completely untouched survivor car looks like someone's bad attempt at restoring a booster.  I've seen many of those too, come through my shop to finally get it right.  As you see in the pictures I posted, the plating is shiny and it does have reds and greens running thru it, not monochrome gold.

Seems like it's difficult for some to acknowledge that those pictures I posted look like zinc plating and not Cadmium and certainly not DULL Cad.  I guess the lab folks missed on that one..........

Instead of trying to direct people to your business by saying that only you have the correct plating, Jerry, maybe you should let our equally knowledgable owners decide for themselves. 

Steve Gregori
Brake Boosters Inc.
www.brakeboosters.com
Logged
KurtS
CRG Coordinator
*****
Posts: 3162


View Profile Email
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »

Welcome Steve and thanks for joining the conversation.

I have some boosters apart and the insides look just like the pictures that Steve G. posted.
The exteriors would have looked the same as the interior new, but oxidize over time.

Knock out the sniping at each other. It may happen on other forums, but it is not acceptable here.
Logged

Kurt S
CRG
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 09:37:55 PM »

Welcome Steve and thanks for joining the conversation.

I have some boosters apart and the insides look just like the pictures that Steve G. posted.
The exteriors would have looked the same as the interior new, but oxidize over time.

Knock out the sniping at each other. It may happen on other forums, but it is not acceptable here.



















Kurt,

I would like to express one point to Steve Gregori regarding this whole thread and what has been written. 

Steve, I have NEVER tried to sell our work over yours or promote that we are the only shop that does boosters……..or that we do better work!  I want to make that clear!  On the contrary, I have referred many people to you when it comes to someone who needs a booster buffed to remove pits and restored.  I have always spoken highly of your work.  So please, don’t insult me here. 

In this thread I stated that I did a lot of research on the plating back in the 1980’s.  Cadmium work that we did at the Applied Physics Lab looked VERY similar to what the inside of the boosters that you posted here.  What I am stating is that it is my professional opinion through the research I’ve done that boosters were cadmium plated, not zinc.  And that the same shiny rainbow patina with good quality cad plating will look very much the same as the bright yellow zinc.  We have restored thousands too and I know what the plating inside the booster looks like. 

To say that the PHD’s, engineers and lab people I worked with “missed something” in their plating analysis is in very bad taste……..they are a hell of a lot smarter that you and I put together.  Larry Christensen who is also a certified Diamond master judge and well known restorer in the hobby has stated that brake boosters were cadmium plated and not zinc.  This is his research too.

The booster on my survivor Z28 is original.  When the second owner bought the car in 1990, he had sent it down to me.  I told him that it should not be restored because it was a very original booster.  It was not restored and installed back on the car.  Even if it is not to your liking, it’s on the car and will stay on the car as is.

Mr. Shauger and I don’t see eye to eye in the hobby.  And when ever there is an issue that comes up and he’s involved along with myself, there is a mission to make me and my business look bad.

All that said, I want to wish all on this forum, and Steve Gregori,  a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Jerry   


Logged
GI JOE
Member
***
Posts: 197



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 11:32:52 PM »

Not to side track much more from the originators questions but in this case of this threads discussion I think it is important to ask at this point, IMHO. 

Does anyone know who the original manufacturing of the boosters were? 

I am assuming that there is likely more than one, since power boosters were used on all cars...  With that said, does anyone know of anyone who is still around that worked at one of these supplier factories?  See where I am going with this? 

BTW, for those who may not remember me, I am the guy who advocates if you must restore, restore it as exactly as you find it!   Merry Xmas my Camaro Gearheads   Grin

Logged

SFC GI JOE - Airborne Paratrooper
68- L-78, M22, BV
69- L-78, M22, BV, Conv
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4045


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 12:11:23 PM »

Does anyone know who the original manufacturing of the boosters were?

As far as I know, Delco-Moraine was the sole supplier of boosters for 1st-gen Camaros (and most other GM cars of the era).
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1158


View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2010, 12:46:01 PM »

That's true but the GM retrofit accessory kit was Bendix for some reason. Had a bunch of those too. Booster was painted black.
Logged
427-KING
Member
***
Posts: 159



View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 03:38:57 PM »

Steve, what is your turnaround time on boosters,hood hinges and especially bolts[along with minimum order on bolts].  Been looking for a reputable/knowledgeable  plating/rebuilding  source etc for some time.  Its been difficult in the past getting bolts replated as   most platers want 50/100 lb minimum batches locally, which is not a good solution. In addition they certainly dont have the knowledge about proper finishes  etc  . 
Logged
169INDY
Member
***
Posts: 218



View Profile Email
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2010, 03:40:04 PM »

http://yellowzincplating.com/FAQ/yellow_zinc_electroplating_information.htm

Only the drawing specs mentioned earlier would denote what was required and executed at manufacture of the OEM Parts.

We (@ Puget Sound Naval Shipyard) have (Mil-spec) plated parts for Naval vessels since they installed the First Golden Rivet ,,, The plating shop used Cad as the primary conversion coating until the advent of the AirQuaility & Employee protections and started using Zinc (Inferior) in the 80's. (note the years  i.e. Cad was primary in the 60’s) They can appear cosmetically similar and variables during prep-applic-finish vary as much as making a Micro-Brew. So results will vary. One commonality is age, IT is a sacrificial coating and like a new borns skin the toll of time is manifested in changing appearance. For example you can 'Burn' the plating with ex excessive amperage, duration & solution make up. These affect the Hue & gloss and color. It is easier if you think of plating as equal to painting & the rainbow of outcomes given the variables,,,,,Your best references are poor quality (Not every one shot KodaChrome) day ½ photos and the interior surfaces that have been denied exposure that are the best source of coating appearance.

Orig Poster: Hold out for the Best,a Orig or the BEST repop that becomes avail. you can afford if you car is a Keeper. If your car is a custom or do not care about appearance options are out there, & I was not impressed with a buddies purchase of current repop from a big box vendor.

FWIW I have two Cars,,w/ restored Boosters,,,, 1 West Coast Version & 1 East Coast Version  and have recommended both directions.
I love plating & have tried the Caswell kits, Local closed (Superfund sites now) plate shops, Farmout (Restoration vendors) and Boeing contract plate shops with varying degrees of success. If anything we have over restored these vehicles to points beyond the orig manufactures standards.
Enjoy your car / project


jim
Logged

Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
9T4Z
Member
***
Posts: 239



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2010, 07:05:43 PM »

Merry Christmas everyone...
the topic has bcome a 'little heated'  Shocked

In all fairness to Steve, the following statement might  imply that there is only one correct finish and that only one shop accomplishes that... I can understand Steve,  becoming a little frustrated.

Most are done now in yellow zinc which is too bright.......and not original.  We still rebuild (all in house @CHP) and have the original "gold cad" plating on the boosters that we restore.  Only one plating shop in our area tha does the factory cad plating now.  I don't think there are any platers in CA that do factory correct original cad anymore thanks to Pelosi, Feinstein and other nitwits in CA that run their government.

Jerry

As far as the photographs of the inside.... that is indeed a good indicator of what I'd like my booster to look like. Wouldn't matter to me if it was zinc or gold cad... but if the inside looked like that, then heck the outside must have looked like that at one time, no?

And while I trust Jerry's expertise and knowledge, the testing done in 1980's would require some serious analysis.  Even today it is common to use things like mass spectrometry to analyze the components and proportions of individual metals in a coating. This is not cheap. So without a new analysis of an original booster's interior, we can agree to disagree.  One thing for certain is everyone agrees that there is certainly a lot of 'over-restoration' of many car parts..... the bright blue clips on the brake line's comes to mind.

I certainly agree with Jerry, that if you have a good looking original part, then do not restore it. If you feel the need to have a booster restored I'd be  very happy with a booster restored by either of these gentlemen.
When someone tells me it's the wrong plating, I'll just smile and nod my head.  Roll Eyes
Logged

Gary 9T4Z

94Z rag blower 491 rwhp (now 505!)
69 Pace Car, 70RS,91Z,91RS
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 456


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 05:00:41 PM »

Welcome Steve and thanks for joining the conversation.

I have some boosters apart and the insides look just like the pictures that Steve G. posted.
The exteriors would have looked the same as the interior new, but oxidize over time.

Knock out the sniping at each other. It may happen on other forums, but it is not acceptable here.

Steve



















Kurt,

I would like to express one point to Steve Gregori regarding this whole thread and what has been written.  

Steve, I have NEVER tried to sell our work over yours or promote that we are the only shop that does boosters……..or that we do better work!  I want to make that clear!  On the contrary, I have referred many people to you when it comes to someone who needs a booster buffed to remove pits and restored.  I have always spoken highly of your work.  So please, don’t insult me here.  

In this thread I stated that I did a lot of research on the plating back in the 1980’s.  Cadmium work that we did at the Applied Physics Lab looked VERY similar to what the inside of the boosters that you posted here.  What I am stating is that it is my professional opinion through the research I’ve done that boosters were cadmium plated, not zinc.  And that the same shiny rainbow patina with good quality cad plating will look very much the same as the bright yellow zinc.  We have restored thousands too and I know what the plating inside the booster looks like.  

To say that the PHD’s, engineers and lab people I worked with “missed something” in their plating analysis is in very bad taste……..they are a hell of a lot smarter that you and I put together.  Larry Christensen who is also a certified Diamond master judge and well known restorer in the hobby has stated that brake boosters were cadmium plated and not zinc.  This is his research too.

The booster on my survivor Z28 is original.  When the second owner bought the car in 1990, he had sent it down to me.  I told him that it should not be restored because it was a very original booster.  It was not restored and installed back on the car.  Even if it is not to your liking, it’s on the car and will stay on the car as is.

Mr. Shauger and I don’t see eye to eye in the hobby.  And when ever there is an issue that comes up and he’s involved along with myself, there is a mission to make me and my business look bad.

All that said, I want to wish all on this forum, and Steve Gregori,  a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Jerry  




I guess some clarification is needed Mr. McNeish. First, I have been using Steve Gregori’s services for over 15 years. That being said I find his plating accurately replicates factory finishes and to be top notch. There are certainly others but he has never let me down.

As you and others know survivor cars are my passion. I own several survivors cars and  I’m intimately involved with the Vintage Certification program who focus is on unrestored cars, Bloomington Gold Survivor Zenith Board and AACA judging as well. I make note of this as an example of my commitment to and experience in this segment of the hobby.

You showed your 67 Z engine compartment as a reference for correct booster plating. Simply stated that engine compartment including the booster has been restored. This is not just my opinion as you know and it’s documented in our certification. My posts were not personal in nature. I do feel however referencing the engine compartment as an unrestored survivor does a disservice to those cars that are and to the hobby. I have posted a picture of the engine compartment of your 67 Z for others to decide. I had to resize the photo for posting, but I do have  high resolution photos that show the details.

Steve
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 05:20:34 PM by paceme » Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
Jerry@CHP
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1445



View Profile Email
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 11:39:17 PM »

The engine bay in this car was not restored.  There was touch up but it was not restored.  All of the firewall and inner fenders are original, and much more.  This car is one of the nicest original examples of a 67 Z28, and with full docs.   

I know all about the Vintage certification.  We will just have to agree to disagree.  I think I know enough about these cars to know what's what and in the case of the booster, it was not restored.  I told the 2nd owner not to restore it because although the rainbow patina was gone, I would not restore it.  I was involved with learing about this car and seeing it for a CHP originality certification back in 1991. 

Mr. Kreafle had several issues with the way he was treated at the ACA Vintage Certification and came to me for advise at that event.  He was also told that the car was clear coated.  This car was not clear coated.  There were many issues but all of this is not relevant to the topic here.  More research will be done to confirm cad vs zinc on the brake boosters.

I am also trying to locate Dave Libby who was an engineer at the tech center.  Dave had access to all GM blue prints.  I am hoping that he will be able to end the debate once and for all.

Jerry     
Logged
KurtS
CRG Coordinator
*****
Posts: 3162


View Profile Email
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2010, 12:28:17 PM »

The sniping back and forth has continued. The personal attacks aren't acceptable here.

Until such time that more data becomes available, this thread is closed.
Logged

Kurt S
CRG
Pages: 1 2 3 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.113 seconds with 17 queries.