Author Topic: Fisher Body Paint Shop  (Read 16758 times)

Buddy

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Fisher Body Paint Shop
« on: December 19, 2008, 02:28:16 PM »
I need verification on the first primer coat as stated in the CRG document http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml , the second high build coat is called out as Gray.

I assume the first primer coat was GRAY also, and that the undercarriage when the car was complete was this first coat of primer(Gray) and the overspray from the body color and rocker blackout when used.

Is this correct?

Thanx
Buddy

JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2008, 05:08:07 PM »
The first prime coat (at least at Norwood) was red oxide - see photo below of my 02D '69.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2008, 05:12:46 PM »
Was this true in Feb 67?

Thx

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2008, 08:45:19 PM »
My car is a feb 67 LOS car, anybody know the 1st coat primer color?

Thx

x77-69z28

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2008, 11:29:36 PM »
my 12d 67 norwood car was red oxide.
69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2008, 02:37:38 AM »
So do both of you have red oxide showing underneath your cars with body color over spray around the edges?

Thanx
Buddy

redge

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 10:11:23 PM »
Hi , my january 69 SS 350 from norwood had Gray primer , and the car had all the original orange paint when i striped it .

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 03:30:24 AM »
The grey usually shows up on the floor pans and under the trunk floor... some cars have more.

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 12:08:02 AM »


Ok, It looks like Red Oxide was the overall primer for the entire car.

It looks to me that where the primer has been worn away?, the blackish color is possibly from the chemical processes before paint?

Someone help me with what I am looking at.

JohnZ, can you describe this?

Thanx
Buddy

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 12:34:37 AM »
what year is that car? and what color is the exterior?
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 03:03:14 PM »
67 Red Exterior w/Gold interior. Look at the following link, the red is primer not paint color. Just my luck the car would be red so to skew the difference. :-[

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=145784

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Buddy

JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 04:40:42 PM »
JohnZ, can you describe this?

Thanx
Buddy

Typical underbody showing red oxide primer.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 05:09:04 PM »
John

I was referring to the Dark Gray or Black coloring. Where is it from? Did any chemical treatments in assembly cause this dark coloring or is it road grime?

Thx
Buddy

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 06:40:32 AM »
The greyish black looks like flow coat primer or the like... black out paints, different color paints, clearing nozzels... who knows what could have happened... some of the line guys were jokers.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Sauron327

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 12:01:35 PM »
John

I was referring to the Dark Gray or Black coloring. Where is it from? Did any chemical treatments in assembly cause this dark coloring or is it road grime?

Thx
Buddy

Isn't the black the first etch coat in the process and the red oxide primer in your pic minimal coverage? Like the epoxies I use today. I did not think they just blew on lacquer primers over the bare prepared metal. According to the assembly process this is what is indicated.

Mark

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2008, 12:08:58 PM »
That red car is an LA built car isn't it.  They were on an overhead rack when they got painted so they were higher off the ground then a Norwood built car which was sitting on a truck on the ground when it was painted.  Hence they got more primer and body color overspray on the undercarraige of the car then a Norwood built car would.
Mark C.
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350/300HP RPO Z11

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2008, 05:18:08 PM »
The assembly process states that primer was the first paint coat on the car. There is a Phosphate stage before prime, did this create the Dark color in the pic? What color did the phosphate stage turn the bare metal?

Buddy

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2008, 06:31:28 PM »
The assembly process states that primer was the first paint coat on the car. There is a Phosphate stage before prime, did this create the Dark color in the pic? What color did the phosphate stage turn the bare metal?

Buddy

I believe it is flowcoat primer which is the same color as the inner fenders, rad support, etc!
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 07:31:58 PM »
The Assembly process doc does not state this? Whats up?

Buddy

JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2008, 03:28:42 PM »
The Assembly process doc does not state this? Whats up?

Buddy

The body shell (at Fisher Body) and the front sheet metal (at Chevrolet) were primed differently. In both cases, when the body (or sheet metal) left the pre-clean and phosphate system, it was a natural steel color (light silvery gray). The body was spray-primed with red oxide primer, followed by primer-surfacers, then color. The Chevrolet front sheet metal was dip-primed (or flow-coated) with black primer, then sprayed with primer-surfacer, then color (as described in the Chevrolet Paint Shop section of the Assembly Process paper). The Fisher Body Paint Shop section describes how the body shell (from the firewall back) was painted, and the Chevrolet Paint Shop section describes how the front sheet metal was painted.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2008, 05:52:20 PM »
That is exactly what I read. So, Why is there black with the red oxide under the car??????????????

Process=

1. Cleaned (raw metal}
2. Phosphate (grayish raw metal}
3. Primer (red oxide)
4. Primer surfacer (Gray)
5. Body Color (red in this case)

There is no black here???????

redge

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2008, 05:58:59 PM »
Hi , my 69 made in norwood was light gray primer for the body shell and doors , no trace of red oxide primer , and the front fender was black primer under the orange paint , that prove the car was originally paint in two different place , body in fisher and front clip at norwood ?????? correct me JohnZ if i am wrong

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2008, 01:17:20 AM »
I am talking about a 67 Camaro LOS car.  Can anyone here answer this?

Thx
Buddy

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2008, 01:31:19 AM »
What month production is your car?
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 02:29:09 PM »
February...thx

firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 02:44:59 PM »
Who knows...
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

rat pack

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2008, 03:36:48 PM »
Buddy, I have been researching this topic for years, but had put it on the back-burner for other topics until I read this post. Personally I have yet to see any 67 built in the LOS plant using red oxide primer as its base prime coat, and very few NOR built cars until 1969. What you are seeing in the picture of the floors on the car at Team Camaro is the body color overspray and not red oxide primer. I just sold an 01C LOS car that was red and the floors looked just like this one, covered in red body color not red oxide primer. The primers on that car were all greys: dark grey (black) base prime, with lt.grey being the topcoat sealer. Why I think most would think that this is red oxide primer is that when the red overspray of the body color hits the darker gray it will turn it an orangish/brown color from where it bites into the undercoat.  If the owner of that car waxed those red areas he would find it is body color. Red is the hardest body color to distinguish from red oxide primer in 67 & 68 is those reds had an orange tint to them more than the 69 Garnet Red.

As Mark stated above, usually the overspray on the floorpans of the LOS cars was heavy as compared to the NOR built cars, so the picture of the car on Team Camaro can be confusing. Another good place to look for the primer overspray is in the shock tower area. The picture below is from the 67 I am restoring now, it is an LOS built car and no red oxide primer used at any time. Take some pictures of the underside of your package tray area, but set your flash to use the "red eye" reducer so you do not get any harsh light reflections.  Doing this should show you the colors of primers used on your car. I had always thought that the topcoat sealer color had something to do with the final color of the car, and I am still leaving that option open. The first cars I have found with red oxide or "ruddy brown" primer/sealers to be predominantly used were in 69, but I have seen just as many with dark grey/black.  I do not totally agree with John's statement in the article that red oxide was the base primer, at least not for all years and both plants. I have seen more cars with dark grey (black) than any other color for its base primer in the first gen Camaros. 

To answer your latest question, the dark color is the primer surfacer first applied after the phosphating is done. What color is your car? Also what is the exact build date 02? ....................RatPack.............................

*** Anyone with an urestored car that has not had any restoration work to the undercarriage or floors other than being washed,  I would like some pictures for a future CRG article regarding this topic. Please send me a private message and I will give you my email address where to send the pictures to. All years of 1st gens are wanted, including Firebirds.





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firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2008, 05:14:10 PM »
Can you take a good clear photo of a few of the drain plugs from the bottom? If they are dirty please clean them but do not take off any overspray if there is any...
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2008, 11:18:51 PM »
FINALLY...Thank you  so much everyone for your help..it seems like it has taken forever to figure this out. DP90 should do the trick don't you think?

02B Madeira Maroon N-N..I will attach my Trim Tag

Yee Haw!!!

Thx
Buddy
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 11:28:29 PM by Buddy »

rat pack

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2008, 11:43:47 PM »
Yep DP90 is a good choice for durability and it is self-etching which eliminates a step. Be sure to do any bodywork that you need to before spraying that DP90.  We used DP90 on the bottom of the car I am doing now right after it was media blasted. Did the bodywork on the few dents and rust pits, then topcoated it with a sealer from Martin-Senour. I don't have the number off hand but I am heading to the body shop right now and I will get if for you later tonight. It dries to an eggshell finish and is waterproof once it hardens, unlike most primers. Good luck with your car!!!...........RatPack..........

Firstgen, done removed the drain plugs, but they were installed before the car was painted, they did have white/tan/orangish colored body sealant, they had lots of overspray on the inside of the car and some on the outside. My 68 was the same way. I think I have some pictures of them from inside the car, none from outside that I know of.....sorry.............

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Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2008, 12:08:24 AM »
Thanx.. I would like the paint # for the clearcoat when you get a chance.



Thx
Buddy


JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2008, 03:15:19 PM »
Here are a couple of shots of floor pan plugs on an original LOS '69.
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firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2008, 05:13:46 PM »
Rat Pack... I was  refering to buddy... I just wanted to see how much red overspray was on the bottoms of his floor pan plugs...
I wanted to see if it was consistant and the spray patterns similar to the red on the bottom of his car... I believe you are correct, it would only add confirmation.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

CVKUEBER

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2008, 07:51:32 PM »
JohnZ, What is the color code of that car? Thanks, Cory
GM parts-tech. Polar Chevrolet White Bear Lake, Mn

rat pack

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2008, 05:40:50 AM »
Rat Pack... I was  refering to buddy... I just wanted to see how much red overspray was on the bottoms of his floor pan plugs...
I wanted to see if it was consistant and the spray patterns similar to the red on the bottom of his car... I believe you are correct, it would only add confirmation.


Oh sorry about that.... I got your email and checked out those pictures. I will get with you in the next few days abot them. Thanks.


JohnZ, What is the color code of that car? Thanks, Cory
John, I too would like to know what the color of this car is? Thanks........RatPack......


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JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2008, 03:59:26 PM »
I think that's Fred Ficarra's Hugger Orange '69.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
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rat pack

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2008, 05:22:30 PM »
John, that is what I thought it was. Man those LOS built cars had lots of overspray. This 67 Z's floors were just about yellow. The sides of the tunnel were covered in body color. We didn't go back that heavy on the overspray, but maybe we should have?........ You know how the judges are at shows, they don't want what is correct, they want "pretty"....JK!....LOL!!!!    :P .............RatPack.............
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CVKUEBER

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2009, 06:40:29 PM »
I think that's Fred Ficarra's Hugger Orange '69.
    Looks like 68 corvette bronze to me.
GM parts-tech. Polar Chevrolet White Bear Lake, Mn

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2009, 07:47:24 PM »
Firstgenaddict

That was not my car but an original I found on the net to figure out my questions.

Sorry, I wish that was mine:)

Buddy

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2009, 05:35:54 PM »
I think that's Fred Ficarra's Hugger Orange '69.
    Looks like 68 corvette bronze to me.
That's the color (Corvette bronze) it looked to me as well....
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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Pex68

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2009, 05:42:19 PM »

*** Anyone with an urestored car that has not had any restoration work to the undercarriage or floors other than being washed,  I would like some pictures for a future CRG article regarding this topic. Please send me a private message and I will give you my email address where to send the pictures to. All years of 1st gens are wanted, including Firebirds.


Here's some photos of the floors of my car when it was being done, just wiped down, no touch-up yet.  68 LOS 12D  I just cleaned them with lots of 409, touched up the rusty spots with either a clear rust converter or Eastwoods flat black rust encapsulator, and left them alone.  Didn't want to mess up all the factory drips & runs or color-car is Sequoia Green, floor color has a good greenish/metallic tinge to it.  Got dinged for having "Painted Plugs"  Oh well, just how it was and not changing it.
RatPack, will PM you, have a few more.




Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2009, 11:38:40 PM »
If I'm not having a memory glitch, I think DP90 can also be thinned down to be used as a final step sealer prior to color as well as a first coat for the treated metal...
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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redge

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2009, 05:31:22 AM »
here is two 69 , 1 lemans blue and other rally green



firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2009, 12:21:33 AM »
Are those LA or Norwood cars? and what month build?
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

redge

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2009, 03:31:02 AM »
I don't know , that are pictures from legendary motor car in Ontario Canada

rat pack

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2009, 02:12:18 PM »
If that Rally Green car is a Z then it is a Norwood car. I couldn't find it on their site anymore. Where did you find the underside of the Lemans Blue car on their site? Thanks for the pictures.....RatPack.........

Pex68, were your inner wheelhouses undercoated at the rear? My 10E LOS car had no undercoating the rear wheelwells and the runs in the primer were unbelievable! I have the same amount of runs on the bottom of the car as yours does and my floors and drain plugs were Seafrost Green. Check your private messages..................Thanks!!!

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Pex68

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2009, 10:01:07 PM »
Inner wheelhouses were undercoated.
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

redge

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2009, 04:07:42 AM »
The picture of the lemans blue is on their site , you click restauration , just on upper page , then it's the 69 camaro yenko
http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/legendary.php?obj=currentrestoration

RamAirDave

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2009, 04:59:46 AM »
09A (1969) NOR car after pressure wash.







"Build them how the designers and engineers envisioned them to be"

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firstgenaddict

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2009, 12:32:27 AM »
Nice shots dave... I'm going to paint the LB 10D Z this week... maybe tomorrow... it's in the booth!
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

vtfb68

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2009, 02:29:30 AM »
05C Los Angeles car, Red primer. first time the interior has been disassanbled.I have many pictures but can not post on this site.
  Victor
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JohnZ

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2009, 05:09:40 PM »
I have many pictures but can not post on this site.
  Victor

Use the "reply" button (not the "Quick Reply"), and click on "Additional Options" to add your photos to your post directly from your hard drive; note the image size limitation and number of images per post limitation. :)
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Mike S

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Re: Fisher Body Paint Shop
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2012, 12:52:15 AM »
here is two 69 , 1 lemans blue and other rally green




I know this is an old thread but in the process of re-restoring my 67 5B NOR ragtop and wanting to return the underbody to the correct finish method, I have been studying this topic in detail for a long time and have also read the 'Process Overview' article many times.  When I restored the car back in the mid 80's I scuff sanded and sprayed the under body semi gloss black for the clean look. I remember seeing yellow but I never kept record of how much.
 Now I want to undo that. No matter where in the undercarriage I sand I uncover the following layers (going from top layer to bare metal).....top layer-->  black (my paint from the 80's) --> butternut yellow (original body color and paint) --> red oxide primer layer--> what looks like a dark gray or black very thin layer (phosphate?) --> bare metal. There is no gray to be found underneath so far as reports suggest should be there and overspray over that.
  What stumps me is the whole bottom has a layer of butternut yellow including deep inside the tunnel at the top...as if the whole bottom was sprayed. I figured the robotic sprayers would hit the bottom edges mainly and not so much up and into the tunnel top.
 These pictures, especially the green example,  prove to me that it is possible to have an almost underbody color the same as the top coat. It may sound anal but I am so relieved to see this example and know it can happen. :)

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored