Author Topic: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors  (Read 11148 times)

Rich

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New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« on: November 30, 2007, 10:17:06 PM »
Please congratulate long-time Forum member, and our most recent CRG member Ed Bertrand, on the great job he has done on the latest CRG Research Report.  Thanks Ed!

Rich

http://www.camaros.org/carb.shtml
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 10:20:06 PM by Rich »
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fireZ

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 10:48:48 PM »
Great report ED. Thanks from all of us north of the border.
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rich69rs

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 11:46:22 PM »
Ed,

Very nicely done.

I sent you an e-mail re: 2Bbl applications.

Thanks for all the work.

Richard
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 11:50:24 PM by rich69rs »
Richard Thomas
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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 12:32:10 AM »
Outstanding job Ed!!     :)

I love all the photos!  "A picture is worth a thousand words"     ;D

Paul

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 01:13:00 AM »
I very much look forward to new reports. Good job Ed and Thanks CRG!
Gary

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Ed Ernst

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 03:06:36 AM »
Thanks, Ed, for all your hard work on the report.  Those pics are a very good reference source.  This type of technical information is why so many 1st gen Camaro enthusiasts frequent this site.  Keep it up CRG ;D
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Ed_B

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 03:26:15 AM »
Thank you very much guys, but I have to admit, I was really only the conduit here! Jerry, Kurt, John, Troy, Greg... Everyone contributed to the article be it pictures, HUGE amounts of information, formatting assistance, help with the actual construction, etc...

Although everyone joined in, Jerry was instrumental in supplying a lot of the Holley information. He really knows his stuff!!

I could never have even finished if it weren't for Kurt! I can't tell you how many time I read and re-read this thing, and Kurt STILL found errors!!! He also gave me great direction in HTML, of which I'm VERY weak!!

Troy and Greg sent me some great pictures, and like Paul said, pictures are worth 1k words.

John, Bill, Martin, Rich... EVERYONE assisted in some fashon, so that's why I insisted we put the "CRG" in addition to my name as the author.

And of course, the article will never be "done". Heck, Richard (rich69rs) just sent me some great info on the Rochester two barrels! I'm looking at incorporating that into the article as well. It's surprising the lack of info on 2GV's!!

Ed

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 03:37:21 AM »
Great job, Ed!
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KevinW

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 03:45:19 AM »
Ed, I have a 7029110 K-8 CH tag is you need a pic. I assume Gm skipped the I for Sept in dating.

rich69rs

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 05:21:57 AM »
Ed, I have a 7029110 K-8 CH tag is you need a pic. I assume Gm skipped the I for Sept in dating.

Similar example except H8 date code (Aug 68)
Richard Thomas
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Steve68

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 05:50:19 PM »
Excellent report!  Thanks for taking the lead and putting in the effort that it takes to produce these things Ed.  Thanks too to all those other CRG members who helped make the final product so good.  These reports are a fundamental part what makes CRG so unique and such a valuable resource to the Camaro community.

Steve

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 12:16:36 PM »
Ed, I've got a 69 307 2 bbl. I can't swear to originality, but If you want me to check something or photos, let me know. The carb will probably be coming off this summer, I'm planning to go with a TPI system.

Tom
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o

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 05:44:15 PM »
Wow, nice work, very impressive.  CRG continues to set the standard because of contributions like that.

Thanks,
Jerry
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1968RSZ28

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 07:25:09 PM »
Hi Ed -

Quote from your carburetor report...

"In 1952, a new 250,000-square-foot manufacturing plant was opened in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and product development continued with the first Holley modular carburetor, the model 4150 that was made standard on the 1957 Ford Thunderbird."

In case your interested and need any info, my dad purchased a 1957 T-bird new.  I saved (inherited) a garage full of parts to this car (sold when I was born) that my mom was going to dump.  Among the hundreds of parts I have is the original Holley 4-barrel carburetor.  Some numbers off the carb...

L/H side of air horn stamped:  743  (date code)

R/H side of air horn stamped:  ECZ  AD
                                            LIST-1273-1

Primary metering block stamped:  1584

Secondary metering block stamped:  1589

Venturi casting number:  6R 1269 B

Ed, if your interested in any other data from this carb, please let me know.  Thanks again for taking the time to write this report!  I found the history of the manufacturers very interesting.     :)

Paul

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 06:44:14 PM »
Very good report!
thanks for doing all these reports!
Sebastien 68  327 rag top

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2007, 10:00:46 PM »
Great report ED. Thanks from all of us north of the border.

I'll second that!
Gary 9T4Z

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2007, 04:33:30 AM »
Ed -

I had a chance to check the "numbers" on my '68 Z/28 Holley carburetor today.  I'm glad to report that all the "numbers" are as you state in your report!  The date code is 822.

Paul     

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2007, 04:44:59 AM »
nice job and thanks to all who worked on the carburetor report

have not seen those 2 BB for a long time
In the mid 70s I had a daily driver 68 El Camino 350 4sp and was trying to improve fuel mileage.
Replaced the 600 Holley with the larger 2 BB on a home made adaptor plate on a alum intake and home made manual choke setup.

Once I got the jetting right it Worked pretty well. Was very smooth like a fuel injection car with no secondarys to kick in


KurtS

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2007, 12:31:00 AM »
The article had a minor revision and a couple of errors were corrected and photos credited.

Anyone have a L65 (69 350/250hp) 2bbl carb? We'd like to confirm one detail. :)
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opelitis1

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 11:33:22 AM »
Hi Kurt S.!!!  Do you have a number on the 2bbl L65 carb???  Maybe I can be of assistance...  Ted

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2008, 11:04:24 PM »
Ted,
The article lists all the part numbers for the L65 carb (though the broadcast codes for the AC models, 115 & 116, are lacking).
The detail: is the fuel line inlet located on the side of the carburetor, like the one pictured here, http://www.camaros.org/images/carb/carb_7029112.jpg. Or is it on the front?

Thanks!
Kurt
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opelitis1

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2008, 01:10:16 PM »
Good morning!!!  Carb I have is 7029114  281 DD 81   front inlet.  Ted

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2008, 05:04:41 PM »
Ted,
That means we need to change that in the article.
Can you send me a good overall pic of the carb?

Thanks for the help!
Kurt
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rich69rs

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2008, 04:31:27 AM »
Fuel line in front of the 2Bbl suggests the larger SAE 1-1/2" version of the 2GV vs. the smaller SAE 1-1/4" version of the 2GV used on the base 327/210 and 307/200 engines.  Consistent with what I've observed on 2 Bbl applications on 327/235 Hp engines on full size Chevys in 1969 which also got the SAE 1-1/2" 2GV carb.  Makes sense that the SAE 1-1/2" 2 Bbl would also get used on the L65 (350/250 hp) engine.

In addition to the reference listed previoulsy, 1965-69 Chevrolet by the Numbers also has the following information:

7029114 for:  "Passenger, Chevelle, Nova, Camaro; 350/250 hp with automatic trans., no A/C"

Also listed are:

7029113 for:  "Passenger, Chevelle, Nova, Camaro; 350/250 hp with manual trans., no A/C"
7029115 for:  "Passenger, Chevelle, Nova, Camaro; 350/250 hp with manual trans. and A/C"
7029116 for:  "Passenger, Chevelle, Nova, Camaro; 350/250 hp with automatic trans. and A/C"

One of the main differences between Rochester 2GV carbs was the use of the "hot idle compensator" feature found on Rochester 2GV carbs designed to be used with factory A/C.  If the application was a non A/C car, then the carb did not incorporate the hot idle compensator. 

If the carb has this feature, it is easily noted on the back (firewall) side of the carb base as described in the following from Carburetor Models 2G, 2GC, 2GV Service Manual 9D-3, May, 1973:

During prolonged idling in heavy traffic in hot weather, under-hood temperatures can exceed 200 degrees Farenheit causing severe percolation or boiling of fuel in the carburetor float bowl.  With excessive heat, all fuel vapors cannot be eliminated through normal venting and some will be drawn into the carburetor bore and intake manifold resulting in over-rich idle mixtures. The rich mixture causes a rough idle and may even cause engine stalling.  The Hot Idle Compensator is used on some 2G carburetor models to off-set the enriching effects caused by these excessive fuel vapors by supplying additional air to the intake manifold when idle air/fuel mixtures become rich due to temperature increase.  The compensator consists of a thermostaticallycontrolled valve usually mounted in the area above the main venturi or at the rear of the float bowl. The valve closes off an air channel which leads from above the carburetor venturi to a point below the throttle valves.

The compensator valve is operated by a bi-metal strip that senses temperature. At a certain predetermined temperature, when extra air is needed to off-set the enriching effects of fuel vapors, the bi-metal strips bends and unseats a valve which uncovers the air channel leading from the carburetor venturi to below the throttle valves.  At this time, just enough air is added to the engine
to offset the richer mixtures and maintain a smooth engine idle. When the engine cools and the extra air is not needed, the bi-metal strip closes the valve and operation returns to normal mixtures. Hot idle compensators are pre-set at the factory and require no adjustment. However, to insure proper idle adjustment, the valve must be closed when setting engine idle speed and mixtures. This can be done by using a screwdriver to press down lightly on the valve for those models with the valve located in the main venturi
area. On those models with the valve located at the rear of the float bowl, hold spring-loaded button "in" when making the
idle settings. If no button is available, remove idle compensator cover and using a screwdriver, press in lightly on the valve when making idle settings.  Replace cover after completing idle adjustments.


Over the years, this is the type of distinction that has gotten lost when you go down to the local parts store and try to find a "correct" replacement carb.  GM/Chevy designed variations depending on application and options.  Now you will get "the one size fits all" story from the local parts house, assuming that they even offer a "replacement" carb.  Clearly, "one size fits all" was not how GM/Chevy designed it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 04:46:34 AM by rich69rs »
Richard Thomas
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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2008, 05:50:04 PM »
Good afternoon Rich/Kurt!!!  I have the 7029114 sitting in front of me and it does not have the Hot Idle Compensator on the rear of the carb body...  Not sure if this is of any importance but, the main venturi cluster is numbered 36245...  I  do not see an identification circle on the rear of the carb as  the Q-Jets have...  Maybe 2-jets did not this identification ...???

Kinda wish at this point in time,  I had not asked the "stock car" person  to "have a go" at the carb...   Ted

KurtS

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Re: New CRG Research Report - First-Gen Carburetors
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2008, 08:21:30 PM »
Fuel line in front of the 2Bbl suggests the larger SAE 1-1/2" version of the 2GV vs. the smaller SAE 1-1/4" version of the 2GV used on the base 327/210 and 307/200 engines.  Consistent with what I've observed on 2 Bbl applications on 327/235 Hp engines on full size Chevys in 1969 which also got the SAE 1-1/2" 2GV carb.  Makes sense that the SAE 1-1/2" 2 Bbl would also get used on the L65 (350/250 hp) engine.

That's why I asked that question. The service manuals kinda indicate it was the smaller 2GV, but I suspected different.

Ted,
Your carb isn't for AC. :)
Kurt S
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