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Author Topic: 68 SS Hubcaps  (Read 21269 times)
68rsssrag
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« on: January 05, 2006, 12:01:07 AM »

Can anyone tell me the correct paint triom details for the full SS hubcaps used on 68 SS cars. These are the 14 inch 3-vane raised potmetal hub on stainless disc style. They have a plastic emblem black/silver with red SS.

 I have a collection from NOS GM, swap meets and ebay and there are 3 variants;

1. only single inner ring painted black
2. both inner and outer ring painted black
3. only single inner ring painted argent silver

I think #1 is correct but #2 was a NOS piece I bought new in 1983 from my dealer so go figure. Silver was Impala I think.

Arno
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2006, 08:34:54 PM »

Here is a pic.

Arno
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2006, 02:02:21 AM »

An old timer hubcap guy just confirmed that the black is Camaro but he couldn't remember if they had 1 or 2 black bands like the pic on the last post.

Any input from folks with this option? Seems few were ordered and fewer survive.

Cheers

Arno
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Steve68
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2006, 09:16:30 PM »

Arno

I'm the original owner of my car.  It is a 68 L78 SS/RS with the Custom Interor package (unrestored/original).  The hup caps that came on the car (and still on it)were your #3.  While I am not in a position to say that no other Camaro ever had a different cap with this combination package, I have seen at least one other car with the same ones as mine.  I vividly remember this other car because it was in the show room (sold) when I was ordering my car and it was almost exactly like what I was going to order and I could hardly take my eyes off of it......anyway, it had the same caps as mine.

Steve
« Last Edit: January 16, 2006, 09:37:25 PM by Steve68 » Logged
68rsssrag
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 01:29:26 AM »

Hi Steve

A local Camaro club member pointed me at the 68 sales brochures, both large and small versions. They show a single black rim. So now we have 1 vote for each.

I'm wondering if this was a LOS vs. NOR or a late vs. early 68 variation?

Arno
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Steve68
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2006, 06:00:58 PM »

Interesting.  Mine is an early June Nor car and I assume the show room car was as well (Nor I mean) with its build date somewhere (best guess  Grin) around a month before the end of the second week of May in 68 (when I ordered my car).  I wonder, is the brochure an early version for the 68 year?

Steve
« Last Edit: January 18, 2006, 06:11:04 PM by Steve68 » Logged
Pex68
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2006, 11:54:38 PM »

Arno,
Looked at my "1968 Chrvrolet Car Selector" (big silver dealer book) and first pic shows a red RS/SS 396 with the inner only hubcaps.  Unfortunatly it's the only picture in the book with this style hubcap.  Looked in my Mitchell part number service book Copyright 1974 and it shows the following;
Cover, full disc
67-3888699
68-69 - 3925886
350-396/67-69 - 3871174
I know this is conflicting info because the pic posted above shows part number 3871174 and has the double black but the pic in the dealer book is a 396 car with the single black Huh.....I know that doesen't help any but it's all I got right now!!!
Good luck.
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Chris P
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 12:49:38 AM »

Chris

You are getting my confusuion. All the photos show 1 black ring but GM part in box has 2. I have got used versions of both on the shelf now so they do exist....plus the argent silver ones!!!

I'm getting to believe that the photos were very early production or prototype and was with 1 ring....still doesn't explain why I have a few dual ring versions unless they are from another car.

Maybe JohnZ can comment on whether brochure photos were usually of final design or things shifted.

Arno
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2006, 11:41:01 AM »

Brochure photos were taken well ahead of production launch, and used all manner of cars - shined-up prototypes and development cars, Pilot cars, auto show cars, and anything that was available at the time, and many of the photos were airbrushed/modified (or not) to represent what was thought at the time to be the production configuration, which frequently changed. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in early brochure photos as an indicator of what was actually built later.
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2006, 08:28:41 PM »

Arno

It doesn't, unfortunately, look like your going to get much more on this.  John has pretty much put the brochure thing to rest.  All I can tell you is that being the original owner of a 68 SS that came with, and still on it, the wheel covers (we have been calling them hub caps but....) are as you described in your #3: only single inner ring painted argent silver.  Besides, how much better it can get than an original owner with original equipment providing you with info Smiley ..... no relying on memory or what a previous owner says was on the car when they bought it.  If your still in doubt for some reason and you can think of something that I can look at on the covers or whatever then let me know and I'll have a try at it for you.

Steve
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2006, 11:13:58 AM »

Steve

I think John is correct on not trusting the PR guys but the silver seems incorrect based on all the other input. I spoke to Bill Ball at GM Canada and he collects cars as well. His input was that wheelcovers got swapped often at the dealers since they were shipped "loose".

I just found an original photo of my car when new. The ring(s) are black on the pic, but hard to say if there are 1 or 2.

Arno
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2006, 08:56:39 PM »

Arno

I picked my car up at the dealer and it has never been out of my hands since and it has had the #3 covers on it from day one.  The silver can't be incorrect as they did come on my new car........Why would dealers swap them anyway?  Something doesn't ring right there with Mr Ball if you think about it.  They are going to put them in the trunk or car at the plant and there is not going to be that much of a chance at the dealership (small & low volume in my case at the time) for a set of SS covers to be put on some other car.

Steve
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 09:27:46 PM »

I tend to agree with you, I can't see an Impala cover on a Camaro unless you had both cars on the lot etc. Bill is saying what got shipped loose didn't always get to the car. This is true if you have worked at a dealership you know amazing stuff happens.

I have another thought. The PN 3871174 on the box and shown in the GM 70's parts books is noted as full wheel cover RS/SS which is the car I have. These are black ring. The circa 1969 polaroids also show a black ring not argent and these pics don't lie as they are as old as my car.

Could it be that RS/SS cars got a "black out" on the rockers and tailpanel and to match this they also got a black accent wheelcover?Huh?  Other non-RS/SS cars, eg an SS without RS would not have had the blackout and perpaps used the silver accent covers?Huh

Arno
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2006, 11:37:09 AM »

Keeping what John said in mind, if you look in the parts book you will notice that the covers change appearance but have the same part number for different years.  For instance, the 1965 Chevy II cover has the same number as the 68-69 Camaro cover.  We stated the thread with 68 covers being the topic and that is what is on my car.  I can't really speak to what other years may look like with any certainty though beyond what is in the parts book and it is really hard to tell what one is looking at (again keeping in mind what John has said).  By that I mean, the page is white but given the shape and the voids in the cover and looking at it on the page I see black areas on the wheel cover.  I know for instance, from real world observation that an area is "open" on a particular cover but it "appears" in the picture as black. Is it really black (painted) or is it the artist trying to show the opening.  Tell you what Arno.....I am going to go and pull one of the covers from my car and see if I can find any numbers.  Will let you know what I find if anything.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2006, 02:29:06 PM by Steve68 » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2006, 10:24:02 PM »

Can't find any numbers on a quick look at the back side.  Does anyone have any idea if there are numbers on wheel covers to start with and if so where?
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2006, 01:28:53 AM »

Steve

The PN was usually a rubber ink stamp on the back of the stainless disk. The potmetal 3 ear spinner has a part # on the back of one vane but this is common to all.

I put the photos under a binocular mircoscope today and the original covers on the car in summer 1968 were definitely black banded...still wonder if this is a RS/SS option issue. The 117 part out of the box is per my pic on earlier post. This is a circa 1983 purchase.

Arno
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2006, 12:17:37 PM »

Arno

I don't think we can go by the 1983 covers for verification as there is enough difference between the 1965 Chevy II 3871174 and the 1968-69 Camaro 3871174 pictures in the parts book alone.  To use covers 14-15 years later than what we are interested (68) in would be way out there IMO.  I am afraid any stamp is long gone from my covers but will pull the other 3 to look anyway.  You do realize my car is a SS/RS.......right? Smiley

Steve
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2006, 04:07:58 PM »

Steve

No I had not realized you car was SS/RS as well. This gets really interesting. You have original hubcaps and so do I (in my case 1 cover and 1968 photos). There is the 1983 GM NOS box with  3871174 as shown in my 1979 parts book and Mitchell which is black but no help. The original GM beauty shots are black but as John says, who knows.

I think it is time to get input from others. Could be we have a situation where we have new input to the CRG Reports.
Anyone with input please respond to this thread.
Arno
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2006, 01:05:03 PM »

I checked with Larry Christensen on this and he isn't 100% sure but he thinks the Argent Silver were 1964 Impala SS and Black was 1968 Camaro SS.

Still a mystery to me.

Arno
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2006, 05:01:37 PM »

Arno

Now that WOULD be a mystery in my case.  That would mean that 4 NEW Argent Silver 1964 Impala SS covers were put on my spanking new 1968 Camaro right there at the dealership. Additionally, and as I relayed to you in an earlier post, the ones I saw on the showroom Camaro, that was almost identical to mine and that had the same covers as mine, would have had to have been switched too!!  Smiley Shocked  Where would they get new 64 covers to start with and why would they do that?  He may not be 100% sure but I have tell you that I am 100% sure that since the argent came on my car it's going to take some powerful proof to convince me that they are not correct and that somehow, someway, my new car had new 4 year old Impala covers put on it.  Smiley

Steve
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2006, 07:15:26 PM »

Not even sure we're seeing the same things in the same photos.  The photo in the dealer book looks to me just like the NOS photo that Arno shows as his #2; inner black ring and outer black ring.   And that is the same cover shown in Hooper's 1998 book taken on a supposedly original (but who knows) car.  Rich
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2006, 08:51:06 PM »

Rich

What dealer book are you refering to?  Publication year?  I've looked at the photo in Hooper's book too and I think shadows are in play.  If you look real close you can see that the "black" of the center area around the SS is black and when you compare it to the inner ring area it is, at a minimum, several shades lighter.  Looking closer, light is reflecting off the rib and shinning on the inner ring area and it looks more gray (silver) than black in my picture.  The outer ring in my photo looks even lighter than the inner ring.  With all respect, I will put my original covers up against Hooper's photo any day, if you know what I mean Smiley  Wink  I have started to look back through some of my original paperwork to see what, if anything, I can find that might help on this.  So far the only thing I see on the original order form is "wheel covers" and the price.  Will keep looking.

Steve
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2006, 11:04:35 PM »

The 68 dealer book.  Not saying what's definitive, just that the images I'm looking at aren't shadows.  They are what they are, right or not.
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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2006, 10:14:28 AM »

Thanks for the clarification.  With regard to the shadows...I was referring to the picture in Hooper's book and not the dealer book.
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2006, 03:37:36 PM »

I'm with Steve on Hooper book, he is often very good or very bad so we need to take his with a grain of salt.

The 4 color dealer sales brochures, both large 8 X 10 and small 4 X 5, both do show black rims as do the ads I collected from mags like Life.

I'm still wondering if this is a color of car matching issue. Mine is Matador Red with black stripes/rag top and with SS 396 blackout paint trim.

Arno
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« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2006, 03:44:18 PM »

Your point about Hooper well taken, but I don't believe that was Steve's question.  He was questioning what he was seeing in Hooper's printed photo.  In my view there isn't any question about what I'm seeing in the photo.  I see the same cover as your NOS cover being worn by a 68 Camaro.  The traceability of the photo may be in question given the source, but the photo is what it is.
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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2006, 03:45:53 PM »

The vintage part books show only one part number with no notation on color.  I don't believe there was any cover difference by car color.
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« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2006, 06:11:45 PM »

Guys

Just to make sure, we are talking about the same photo (black & white)....top of page 170 in the 1998 "The Conclusive Camaro Recognition Guide" ....right?  Rich, you are right, I do question what I'm seeing in the photo but I don't want to get hung up on that picture so I'm going to just say (and then I'm done with this photo forever now that I'm cross-eyed from looking at it so long Smiley) that the one I'm looking at, given the possibilities of differences (quality) in printing and whatever, just doesn't look black to me in that inner ring but I'm old and I'm probably wrong  Sad.  Arno, my car is British Green with white stripes, black vinyl hard top, with SS blackout paint trim.  Questions: John Z, who made the covers for GM and where did they come from (mfg plant locations)?  Rich do you see any indication in the part books that there may have been a cover that was "set aside" for a SS ordered vehicle?  By that I mean, if I ordered a SS with regular dog dish caps would it have come with SS covers because I ordered the SS....is there anything that would lend itself to conclude that from the books?  One more question for you Rich, how many original SS owners do we have in the CRG data base?  Am I the only original owner that kept his original SS covers on his Baby all these years Huh (Please treat that as a rhetorical Q if you like Rich  Wink)

Steve
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Rich
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« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2006, 06:58:10 PM »

Pg 170, yep.

SS with no wheel options came with the dog dish caps in 68.

The cover in question is the RPO option "P01" cover as applied to the SS, and for 68 the RPO P01 cover was different than the P01 cover on non-SS.  The non-SS cover is what is on my car, as in http://www.camaros.org/rich/morephotos/P6097439.JPG

You would have gotten the covers in question if you ordered option P01.  If you don't have P01 on your order sheet, then the factory put dog-dish hub caps on the car, and the dealer put these full-wheel covers on it after it came off the truck.  And if he found some SS style wheel covers in the parts department, they may have grabbed a previous version, not realizing it was slightly different.

Rich
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2006, 05:29:17 PM »

Ok, let me see if I have this right.  A SS car that was not ordered with P01 came to the dealership with dog dish caps.  A SS ordered with P01 had the SS wheel covers put on at the factory.  The SS that was not ordered with P01 and came with dog dish had the dog dish taken off and replaced with SS wheel covers at the dealership (from their stock) because it was a SS.  Is all that correct?
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68rsssrag
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2006, 06:42:01 PM »

I think you got it correct and that is what Bill Ball was saying when he said loose parts got lost at dealerships.

Could be that what we have here is a situation where the GM NOS parts out of the box NOS 1980's) and the photos and PR material are correct. If you ordered P01 you got black from the factory and if you ordered post delivery at the dealer you got the Argent Silver which was in the parts book of the time as a 64 Impala hubcap.


Seems to fit.

Arno
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2006, 07:31:40 PM »

Only problem Arno is that I ordered wheel covers (P01) and have Argent Silver on my car.  In my case I didn't order anything "post delivery" from the dealer so I don't think that explains it.
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2006, 10:39:17 PM »

Steve

Have you seen anything published that shows Argent hubcaps on a 68 Camaro?

Arno
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2006, 12:16:47 AM »

Here is a nos set I found on ebay # 3871174, it looks like the painted inner and outer ring.                                                                                                                               http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/nos-1965-nova-ss-1967-1968-camaro-ss-wheel-covers-set_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33744QQitemZ8046530799QQrdZ1                                                                               
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« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2006, 06:42:25 PM »

Note they are 65 Nova covers.  The part number has been used for more than one year and that may be why we are seeing different covers for different years on different vehicles.  At this point I suspect that the paint scheme changed for the year and the vehicle it was going to be used for in that particular year.

Steve
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2006, 08:50:47 PM »

Since the last post I have continued to try and find information regarding the wheel covers.  Attached are two pictures.  One is from an original 68 P&A (thanks Ed!) and the other is from my car.  I ordered my car new and picked it up personally at the dealership upon delivery from GM.  It was SOP to ship the wheel covers in the trunk.  The SS wheel covers on my car have been on it since the day I picked it up from the dealership.  The order sheet shows P01 (SS wheel covers).  Since the P&A image uses black ink only, there was no way to depict an inter argent ring in the P&A picture.  Obviously, a black ring could have been drawn in to represent one if it existed on the actual cover.

Steve
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2006, 09:23:30 PM »

I believe all you say Steve.  Argent caps were installed on your car at the dealer when it was new.  The question is, was that normative for 68 Camaro at that point in time?  Dunno.  I believe most people believe - with photo evidence to support it - that for most of the year the black ring version was normative.  I'm not going to rule out a late year change (as you are suggesting regarding your grille), but there are enough other possibilities that a lot more research would be required.

Not fully related, but as example of how confusing it can get, I just re-looked at "Chevy's Classy Chassis", a photo essay of nominally original S. Cal cars published in 1981.  So at the time the photos were taken the cars were no more than 13 years old (probably several years younger) and most with the original owners.  The principle 68 SS/396 they document has the non-SS P01 wheel covers on it.  Definitely non-normative.  An after delivery add-on, or a dealer mistake?  Who knows.  Car belonged to an Ed Boortz of El Cajon Cal, if anyone still knows his whereabouts (he's not in our db).

Rich
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2006, 09:32:39 PM »

Rich

What's your take on the lack of a black ring in the P&A image?  Would you place any value in it (P&A image) at all then?  Thanks for your insight  Smiley

Steve
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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2006, 09:55:10 PM »

Same pic as in other manuals.  It being predominately line-art, I'm not swayed one way or the other by it.  It's function was to allow a part man to distinguish one cover from another to ensure he had the right cover from the selection on the shelf, and typically those level of details were omitted.

But I could use it to construct an argument that the dealer grabbed the argent covers to match the picture, thus putting the wrong covers on the car. Wink

I'm not insisting these aren't the covers that were supplied by the factory, but if you've ever spent time around a car dealership, even a small one, there are plenty of opportunities for wheel cover swaps to be made after the car is removed from the hauler and sent to the clean-up and prep crew before customer delivery.

Rich
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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2006, 08:48:08 AM »

Thanks Rich. I know you believe me  Smiley.   Not wanting to, and trying hard not to be, argumentative  Smiley I think I need to step back and see what we have at this point.  1) Historical GM pictures: JohnZ post says not that reliable (reply #8).  2) Other Historical pictures such as Hooper: ?  3) P&A images: the 68 image provided by Ed does not have a black ring for part 3871174 but the same part number listed for the 66 Chevy II, that image does.  4) Original owner with order sheet with P01 on it. 5) On the day I ordered my car there was one like it in the show room (See reply #'s 3 & 19).  I remember looking at it closely to see if there was anything that I wanted to change on my order, there wasn't but it had the argent covers too.  There would have been opportunities for the floor mats, and other "loose parts" to not have made it into the car but they did.  I'm just having a hard time drawing any other conclusion than, especially without any evidence of a swap of covers at the dealership and given the odds, the covers on my car are anything but the ones that were shipped with it.   Smiley I appreciate this site and the opportunity to participate in the discussions/research/help that takes place here.  Smiley

Steve
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2006, 10:17:28 PM »

I'm going to reopen this discussion again because I was digging through some old pictures I had and just found a picture of an original 68 RS/SS 396/350 Coupe with the full hub caps still intact. Here's a picture.

Let the discussion continue...

Ed


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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2006, 10:42:20 PM »

Ed

Any idea what the build date is?

Steve
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2006, 11:03:45 PM »

Sorry Steve. I didn't get that information, but it's a later build. The stripes show it to be after January 1st. And by the way, the grille is BLACK!!! Here's another picture showing the grille, and as a bonus, a Poloroid of the engine compartment the same day the owner brought it home from the dealership!

Ed



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« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2006, 05:54:56 PM »

And, just because I'm old and remember, this style of SS wheel cover was not used on the 1964 Impala SS but on the 1963 Impala SS. The 1964 SS cover was more of a flat design.
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« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2007, 01:47:44 PM »

Not to reopen old wounds, but here's a picture of a 63 Impala SS cover, taken in the GM Heritage Center on 9 Aug 2007 (by Daniel).  They appear to be physically identical, just painted differently.
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« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2007, 10:58:25 PM »

During the research on the 68 RS grille (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1087.0) I was keeping an eye out for documented cars that might still have their original P01 SS hubcaps/wheel covers (part number 3871174).  I was lucky enough to find an owner who still had the original Camaro 68 SS covers that came on the car as well as some 63 SS covers.

First, this part number has been used for several hubcaps over the years and includes the 63 Impala, the 65 Chevy, and the 68-69 Camaro.  The paint scheme is different on them but the cover front side itself is identical.  The 63 Impala has an argent ring (inner ring) next to the center cone as do the original covers that came on my 68 Camaro.  Those of you who have read the above posts already know I ordered my car with SS covers.  When I picked it up at the dealership it had the argent ring SS covers on the wheels and they have remained on the vehicle all these years.  May car is a 06A build.  There are GM ads and other published pictures of the 68 Camaro with a black inner ring.

In trying to determine if there was some distinguishing characteristic between the 63 SS argent and 68 SS argent covers it turns out there are two definitive ones.  The 63 has a “plate” on the back side of the cover that goes over the SS fixture and is held on by three screws.  The 68 has a black tar like substance that has been applied to seal the open area between the SS fixture and the attaching structure.  There is no “plate” on the back of the 68 cover.  These appear to be sealing attempts to keep water out of the SS fixture.

My 68 covers, as did the ones on the other owners 68, have the tar substance and no plate.  If the black inner ring was indeed the “normative” SS cover in the beginning of the 68 model year then a change in paint design occurred during the year.  The 69 Camaro covers also have the argent inner ring.

Attached are pictures of 63 Impala "plate", back side of 68 SS Camaro cover (post #47 below), Camaro 69 SS covers, and 68 P&A 30 picture of 68 SS Camaro cover with no black ring.

Steve
« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 10:38:25 AM by Steve68 » Logged
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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2007, 03:09:45 AM »

Attached are pictures of 63 Impala "plate", back side of 68 SS Camaro cover, Camaro 69 SS covers, and 68 P&A 30 picture of 68 SS Camaro cover with no black ring.

Steve, your first two photo files are empty when you open them.  Thanks for the info.
 
Paul
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2007, 10:37:16 AM »

Tried to fix by reducing the picture size further on the ones in post above and was able to add one.  The 4th one still put it over the limit.  Attached is the "back side of 68 SS Camaro cover" here.

Steve
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« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2008, 02:05:57 AM »

thanks every one..............Very informative and yes mine have the tar  like sealer on the back also.
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brent bridgeman
current projects: 1968 SS 396/AT w/A/C All #'s Matching...............1967 RS convertable 327/Powerglide..............1967 RS coupe 327/AT...............1967 Pro Street Camaro
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« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2008, 08:33:53 PM »

i have what appears to be original STock wheel covers for my   "68 SS camaro but the only numbers i found n the original parts is a .....3827395 Both black rings.
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brent bridgeman
current projects: 1968 SS 396/AT w/A/C All #'s Matching...............1967 RS convertable 327/Powerglide..............1967 RS coupe 327/AT...............1967 Pro Street Camaro
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