Factory Chambered Exhaust-69’ 396

[DuWayne Ladner]

I’m in a little dilemma right now, I need help on determining the size on the exhaust from the factory for 396 Camaro’s. Purchased a Chambered Stainless Steel set back in 2019’ from 1 of Vendors, to be stocked for install at conclusion of its restoration. Here I am, ready to install, and my installer just ask me if I was sure I wanted this 2”  behind my mildly built L78, factory spec’d! Is all Big Block system’s at least 2.25 inches or 2.50 inches, is I guess my question? Only have owned car for 51 years, and very slight memory of Day 2’d removal of complete exhaust, and slight memory of all the dimples in the system. May be also could be dreaming of long ago. Thanks in advance for the help.

[william]

Chambered is not a performance system; cost almost 80 hp on a ZL-1 dyno test back in the '90s.

Four mufflers, small tubing, many bends.

[cook_dw]

Here is more info by using the search function.


Exhaust Thread

[69Z28-RS]

The OP's memory is likely about like my own..      but I'm pretty certain I recall correctly that the bigblock chambered pipes were different (1/4-1/2" Larger dia) than the small block chambered.   

John Z told me once that the chambered exhaust for a small block on a Z28 in '69 produced 7 hp less than the std transverse muffler system.  I'm sure it would be more on a big block engine than that.

PS.  Only the early cars received the chambered system, as due to noise tickets in various states, the factory changed from the chambered stock system to the transverse muffler initially, and then ADD dual resonators by May or June of '69...

[DuWayne Ladner]

Ok my Camaro brethern, thanks for ya’s comments, from BertFM to 69Z28-RS, ya kinda clarified my questions about the diameter issue from SB to BB exhaust. 2” to 2.25”. Now can I get ya’s thoughts on 2.5” to the chambered section, and 2.5” out pipes from chambered section. This will be Stainless Steel head section, and out pipes. Remember this is behind a L78 mild performance build factory like! Engine is .60 over, hyd roller cam, #840 heads, #163 alum. intake, 4346 Holley. Or just eat a 900.00 dollar system and spend a bit more for a say Gardner  transverse system, and hope it’s at least 2.25” system. Any thoughts and help would be appricate. Bout to just put a couple glass packs on to be able to finally drive the Camaro, lol, it’s only been about 36 years since it’s chewed asphalt. Thanks.

[maroman]

Just an opinion. You already paid for this system. I don't doubt the claim of losing a few HPS with it. BUT 99% of your driving you will never know. Put it on and drive it. Have fun.

[william]

Not true. All '69 Camaro dual exhaust systems were the same with the exception of the front exhaust pipes. Vintage photos of ZL-1 #3 show it was built with the same single muffler/dual resonator system later used on the Z/28.

No factory-type system can compare to a modern X-pipe system. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Stingr69]

How fast do you need it to go?

I have an original chambered exhaust car with a reproduction system and it probably costs a few HP.....BUT its loud, and cool to talk about at the drive-in so, I just need to have it.  I might be down a few HP but who cares?

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thanks William and Stingr69’, kinda the direction I’m headed. Waiting on a call back from the vendor about a 2 1/4 system! Loss of hp is note a concern for me, but seems to be for my engine builder! Ultimately it’s gonna be my final decision and it will be final. Not about how fast it goes, but simply all about sound and driving the darn thang. Again thanks to this forum and all you faithful CRG encouragers!

[Sauron327]

Chambered sound reminds me of kids who slice off their mufflers on a Honda. Fart pipes. Lot of people like it because of bragging, whatever that means.

[camaronut]

Chambered sound reminds me of kids who slice off their mufflers on a Honda. Fart pipes. Lot of people like it because of bragging, whatever that means.

I had a chambered system on my car - not my cup of tea also.  I was rather disappointed with it really.  I went back with my original setup of one muffler.

I will say that I heard a chambered on a Z28 at the Camaro Nationals two years ago and it sounded awesome.  A 302 vs a 350 L48 made a world of difference in the sound.

[Kelley W King]

My brothers 302 Z has chambered exhaust . Looks cool but sounds like crap to me. When you back off the gas sounds like 2 4 cylinder Hondas with straight pipes.

[red69]

Personal preference, but I have a GM over the counter chambered system, and I love the sound. Does not have a harsh deceleration rattle. I've had Z's with transverse and chambered and much prefer chambered. i have heard that the aftermarket chambered systems do not sound the same.

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thanks Red69, but I think I have my answer, from 1 of the nations, and top end exhaust suppliers of factory correct  systems, about repro chambered exhaust systems for BB Camaro’s. I have a repro stainless steel system that is 2” system. My initial question on this was, initiated by my engine builder, “ Do you really want this 2” system behind your Stainless Steel headers, 2 1/2” collectors, and 2 1/2” E-cut outs”? Have not gotten a clear answer from anybody about the difference in 2” to 2 1/2”, as far as suppression, hp loss, sound, behind my freshly re-done L78. Of course the above exhaust expert, response on the chambered with cut outs, why cut outs, cause the chambered was going to be very loud. And off course no response from vendor on the od’ issue, and yes I ordered as BB set, paid for BB set, will not answer my return calls. Last conversation was they would check with manufacturer to get these answers. Hum, wonder where the manufacturer is! Not going to name the vendor as I know the policy of this forum and CRG in general! Again Thanks.

[x66 714]

Gardner Exhaust is the best in the business...Joe

[David K]

Aahhhh....the preference of audible noise.

[Jerry@CHP]

I bought two sets of original GM chambered when I was asst. parts manager at Miller Chevrolet in Ellicott City, MD. I purchased my '69 Z28 in March of '72.  What I noticed when the system was new, it was not quite as loud as the systems available today.  Eventually, as the age and 30-40 miles were put on my car, the system did get louder.  I installed another a couple of years later. When I sold this car in 1976, my Z28 had just turned 99,000 miles.  Without a doubt, do not buy any system but a Gardner.  They are by far the best available and only system accepted in our "Legends" class at the Camaro Nationals. 
 

[Jerry@CHP]

One more note, I was just telling Billy G. that I just installed a Gardner system on my survivor '68 Z28.  When I bought the car in 1990, the original owner has installed Corvair turbo mufflers when the car was new.  They were the hot lick for performance back in the day, and he was a professional street racer.  I left them on the car until they rotted out.  My buddy talked me into a stock style Flowmaster with cross-over muffler and 2 1/2" dia.  Left it on the car for about 15 years.  it became annoying and loud at high rpms with the factory 4.88 gears.  Can't say the car was any faster with the Flowmaster either.  Last year, I decided to install a Gardner system.  Seat of the pants, the car did not seem to suffer any street performance at all and now I can hear the solid lifters and M22.  Should have installed this years ago.  You can't go wrong with Gardner systems. 

[Sauron327]

My friend and his wife own over 50 cars.  Most on this site do not work on cars daily. Not sure why Jerry hates D&R. Chuck Fisher is plastered all over the internet and I do work for him. Lifelong friend. There are 2. One is good and the other is a backstabbing scumbag.

[william]

I have been close friends with Jerry and Stevie for over 30 years. They are also long-time friends and have done a lot of business together. Both are leaders in the hobby.

Claiming people you don't know hate each other; name-calling. No idea what your problem is but please take it somewhere else.

[bcmiller]

My friend and his wife own over 50 cars.  Most on this site do not work on cars daily. Not sure why Jerry hates D&R. Chuck Fisher is plastered all over the internet and I do work for him. Lifelong friend. There are 2. One is good and the other is a backstabbing scumbag.

Scott you have been helpful in the past but your attitude needs to change on this site.

Take some time off and reflect.

You’re a bit too full of yourself with the “most guys on this site don’t work on cars daily” comment. Other people know stuff too.

Also your assumptions about other people and name calling have no business in this forum.

[DougD]

My friend and his wife own over 50 cars.  Most on this site do not work on cars daily. Not sure why Jerry hates D&R. Chuck Fisher is plastered all over the internet and I do work for him. Lifelong friend. There are 2. One is good and the other is a backstabbing scumbag.

You must be so proud to have a friend with means.  Try being the friend with manners.

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thank you Mr. Jerry Mac, but my choice is leaning towards Eric Gardner and the transverse system, my real question was and still is, from the Stainless Steel Chambered system I now have, is the 2” system inadequate for a factory spec built L78 396. Is this universal or across the board for SB/BB cars. This all begin for me when my engine builder asked me if I was sure that I wanted to put this 2” system behind this engine! But I guess at this point still some confusion and discernment of choices in a system, Of course I guess I can find a source that could piece mill me parts I need, as I know Gardner does not break a set. Looking for Stainless at least 2 1/2” header and cut outs back to outlets also. Over the housing to the transverse set up. Again Thanks Mr Jerry, and all other CRG’ers, and God Bless.

[ko-lek-tor]

On the street, you will probably never need nor notice a difference. The recommended for dual exhaust on your car would be 2 1/2”.
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=C41DB9D3C0914F6088D3F66522A58EF8&&ID=SERP,5215.1&SUIH=oBWISNZ_FCOYtiMDCctfwg&redir=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZXhoYXVzdHZpZGVvcy5jb20vZmFxL2hvdy10by1jYWxjdWxhdGUtbXVmZmxlci1zaXplLXBpcGUtZGlhbWV0ZXIv

[bertfam]

Bentley, your link opens Bing, but that's all.

It says ?FORM=GPFAIL so I'm assuming it's a bad link

Ed

[cook_dw]

Idk if this is what Bentley was trying to post but here is a quick chart for reference.

[GMAD_Van Nuys]

Hot Rod did an article in 1998 about the effect the diameter of the exhaust system has on horsepower:

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ccrp-9812-2-quarter-inch-exhaust-3-inch-exhaust/

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thanks GMAD__Van Nuys, great response and yes great article! Does answer my questions about the difference of od” of SB and BB systems in that it really focuses on , yes hp gain/loss. Now my situation is my purchase of a 2” Chambered Stainless Steel system ordered for a BB, paid for a BB, and can not get the selling vendor to return calls, emails, messaging. Anyone else in CRG have these problems. Kinda 1 of these deals, of 1st item ordered for last item of a restoration to be done. At this point I’m definitely on the Gardner systems side, but at this point do not need the complete system, and already know they do not piece mill. Oh well gonna get it figured out. Thanks everyone for ya’s input here on CRG. God Bless.

[camaronut]

"Now my situation is my purchase of a 2” Chambered Stainless Steel system ordered for a BB, paid for a BB, and can not get the selling vendor to return calls, emails, messaging."

Hope its not Allen's Stainless Exhaust - they went out of business from what I see.

[x66 714]

Thanks GMAD__Van Nuys, great response and yes great article! Does answer my questions about the difference of od” of SB and BB systems in that it really focuses on , yes hp gain/loss. Now my situation is my purchase of a 2” Chambered Stainless Steel system ordered for a BB, paid for a BB, and can not get the selling vendor to return calls, emails, messaging. Anyone else in CRG have these problems. Kinda 1 of these deals, of 1st item ordered for last item of a restoration to be done. At this point I’m definitely on the Gardner systems side, but at this point do not need the complete system, and already know they do not piece mill. Oh well gonna get it figured out. Thanks everyone for ya’s input here on CRG. God Bless.

Maybe what you need to do is find somebody running a small block with headers & sell them your system. At that point you know where to go for what you need....Joe

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thanks CamaroNut and X66 714 for ya response. To CamaroNut, no not your supplier, but will just say the initials of my vendor is GU and they’re trying, sent and email with a review invoice but have not seen it. Hey X66, that’s also my X code on my car with a 02D build date. So my system is complete, from head pipes to outlet pipes. With a question to the vendor(Pending), if you advertise STAINLESS STEEL, charge for SS, then shouldn’t the system, whole system be SS? Mine’s only the Chambered part is I assume 308 stainless, can’t get a magnet to hook. I am about fed up with a lot of so called Camaro vendors whose bulk of items are of Far East sourcing? So glad I am about 95 percent complete on my restoration.  Thanks Guy’s.

[x66 714]

DuWayne, depending on the quality of the restoration you're doing, it will require lots of research & lots more money. At 157k miles on my car, I still have 90% of my original system. It has a NOS muffler from years back & 1 repair. If I had to do it I would only purchase from Gardner. I almost did but was able to save the original system so it would look good, not great, but good for MCACN.....Joe

[bowtie68iho]

Some stainless steel is magnetic and some is not.  Here's an online article on this by Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-dont-magnets-work-on/

Bernie

[DuWayne Ladner]

Thanks bowtie68iho, have saved this article to my notes. I am in a repair part time business where I handle a lot of stainless steel to brass and actually do a good bit of soldering the stainless to the brass. Of course use 45 percent silver solder and some 56 per cent. Do know the classes of Stainless, and none of my Stainless magnetizes. My biggest problem is with these vendors of Camaro parts advertising their products as stainless steel with no disclaimers. But I’m over it now, just gonna try and finish my exhaust off. Just recently got stung again, ordering 2 turbo mufflers from a major vendor, name starts with a “J”, advertised as stainless steel, bought as stainless steel, paid for as stainless steel, and there is nothing stainless steel about them at all. But you know what, my spending on this project is about to come to a halt.

[X66]

My X66 hasn't chewed asphalt in 33 years. Awesome that yours is getting close.Enjoy driving it. Drive it as often as you can. Good luck

[cook_dw]

Just remember any stainless that is a 400 series has more iron in it.  300 does not.