Author Topic: The "new" OER Endura Bumper  (Read 4208 times)

57vette

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The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« on: April 05, 2022, 09:12:12 PM »
So a few months ago, I gave up on my smoothing a unpainted steel bumper because my lousy welding skills got me as far as welding in the bumper studs and smoothing them over on the outside and grinding the inner welds so I could mount the bumper to the OEM brackets. I kept getting pit marks and got tired of grinding away welded spots to find I had more pit marks. I weld only when I need to stick something together and that's about it. So I gave up and ordered the "new" retooled OER endura bumper and brackets. Maybe my big mistake was not trying to fit it before painting, but when I held it in place it looked fine without any brackets and the bodyshop was waiting for me to drop off the bumper, the grill shell, the RS doors, a pair of bullet mirrors, and a new front spoiler so I did. They all _look_ gorgeous, the fitment? Meh.

I've been at it on/off in my spare time over the past week or so and have had the bumper on/off a dozen times and yeah, I'm getting closer but it doesn't look like I'm ever going to get a zero gap like this:



Here's a shot of where I'm at:



Doesn't look _that bad_ but the gap on the DS is about 1/8" more than the PS. The bumper is actually hitting the "knife-edge" crease in the bumper relief area, so the only way the bumper gets tucked backwards is to grind some material off the top edge... and while that missing 1/8" might be hidden I'm not sure that the rest of the "wing" area (side/bottom) will not be hitting the relief area preventing full movement backwards. To get this far, I had to elongate the holes in the bumper bracket to allow for some additional fore/aft movement. In that picture above, I left out the DS outer bumper bracket. The cushion/spacers they supply are way too thick and they push the bumper too far forward. So I eliminated the forward 1/4" spacer and replaced it with a 1/16" rubber washer but the inner metal flanged sleeve is too long. So rather than destroy that, I pulled it out and using a shorter screw, I was able to get the bumper back closer to the fenders and grill. Many eliminate the outer brackets when using a painted steel bumper or even using an aftermarket endura bumper. As far as width goes, I'll measure it next time I have it off, but side to side its pretty good.





The picture below shows some of the parts I've used. The full thread 1" body bolts are far easier to thread upside down into the inner bumper brackets. If I use the outer bumper brackets reducing the thickness of the rubber pieces means the bracket gets much closer to the bumper and the button head bolts are also far easier to get into the brackets when they are mounted. The OER supplied bolts will only work with the thick cushions. And of course when you reduce the cushion thickness, the OER supplied machine screw is way too long, it bottoms out before the cushions have any tension on them. So a much shorter machine screw was what I used. I might consider slotting the holes a skoosh to help allow some vertical movement of the wings as I'm bolting it all up. One last thought here... perhaps leave the inner bracket horn bolts loose, then mount the wings first, then the bumper to the bumper brackets, and try to lift the bumper while tightening the bumper horn bracket bolts?



In hindsight, I should've really paid more attention to the fully bolted in look before everything was painted. I reached out to James (1stGenAddict) but I think he's gonna laugh and say start over. I'll get it as close as I can and live with it, but any advice on mechanical tweaks would be appreciated.-Mike

z28z11

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 01:30:26 AM »
One suggestion I might make - you mentioned you used the OER brackets (I believe) - you'd be better off using OE brackets if you can find a set at a reasonable price. One of the CRG members went through this same routine years ago - I furnished him with a very good condition bumper that I had as a backup, he evidently went through a lot of trouble trying to fit bumpers up to the repro brackets, and determined the angles were different enough to cause positioning problems. He bought a pair of OE brackets I had, and finished his installation. In comparison, you can see the differences between the brackets without much trouble.

Just my opinion -
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

firstgenaddict

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 05:10:56 AM »
The HBC bracket set is the best quality bracket set you can get short of OE. The profile and fit is spot on as well as the correct in shape and retention of the inner bracket threaded nuts.
The only difference in the GM and HBC is the HBC brackets are either waterjet or laser cut VS punched using a die and anvil.
IF you understand the forces involved when stamping a part vs waterjet cutting then you know the difference in the edge profile and stretch-shear induced marks in the Z direction.

However I answered the PM... I added material before painting.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
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57vette

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2022, 06:23:10 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys. Me finding a set of useable OE brackets would be like Rocky chasing the chicken LOL. Of course, maybe somebody will surprise me. For the time being I'm gonna live with the OER brackets but I'm gonna order the HBC brackets based on the advice. I'll swap things over when I get them, although they say they have them in stock so I'll give it a try. I have other fish to fry getting the car back on the road this month notably a new interior. Right now its all out.-Mike

z28z11

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2022, 11:21:30 PM »
The only difference in the GM and HBC is the HBC brackets are either waterjet or laser cut VS punched using a die and anvil.
IF you understand the forces involved when stamping a part vs waterjet cutting then you know the difference in the edge profile and stretch-shear induced marks in the Z direction.

I've not compared the HBC brackets to OE, just the OER's. Angles are appreciably different - our CRG member that bought my spare set extensively modified his to get them to fit, unsuccessful until he bought mine, as he related.
Due to the comound angles and bends in the right and left inner brackets, they either have be stamped or drawn in a stamping or hydroforming operation. not simply blanked or cut out with a plasma or water jet operation. The beginning blank plate could be water jetted, plasma or flame cut (unlikely), but it still has to be formed either in a stamping press or forming die. Any repro in my estimation would still not be identical unless it used the original tooling to (re)produce it. My best thought over many years is to use OE parts wherever possible and affordable.
I do understand the forces and differences involved - I've been in the industrial tool and die/cutting tool industry for 45 years. Retired and using that experience and training keeping my grandkids -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

z28z11

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2022, 11:58:55 PM »
I didn't realize it had been 10 years ago we started this discussion - most of the pics are still there, check out the mods Lynn did with his mounting brackets.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9976.0

Shame I don't have another set of inners to offer - these were pretty good ones (although I never cleaned  them up before I shipped them !).

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

57vette

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 09:52:54 PM »
It seemed that the HBC brackets would be the best option for me to get a cleaner, tighter fit so I ordered the complete set. They should be here tomorrow, so this weekend I will uninstall the bumper and just for the record... I'm posting some pix of the OER brackets which to me look a lot like the HBC ones but maybe there's a difference. They are mounted right now so this is from inside the grill area. Wall thickness is .125" on the OERs. I confess to elongating the holes slightly to allow better positioning.


z28z11

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2022, 04:34:23 AM »
You know, they really don't look as bad as the first generation reproductions. Here's a couple of shots of the set I sold Lynn, with a comparison to the first repros he tried to correct. I can see why people had so much trouble fitting the bumpers, and then you have to reshape the ends to match the original flexible ones (remember, Pontiac used the Endura tag, not Chevy).

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

57vette

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2022, 09:07:45 PM »
Steve... They _are_ very close. The HBC parts arrived about an hour ago, I didn't have time to fiddle with them on the car but took some comparison pictures and this one shows some subtle differences. Photoshopped in a few common lines to compare them, comments in the 1st picture. I'll post up more info as I get them installed and see what I can make of the fit.












Right off the bat I'm thinking I'm gonna have to loosen the two big bolts on the sub frame and play with the angle and height. With the OER brackets I think I could get the PS pretty decent looking by just wiggling it around yesterday. It's the DS that is giving me fits.



I was able to push the center up to just about flush with the grill line.



The DS? It just doesn't seem to want to go any higher. I've tweaked the OER brackets fore and aft, but it almost looks like I can't get the DS inner bracket that extra 3/16"  that might allow a closer fit on the DS wing.


57vette

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2022, 11:00:38 PM »
Just wondering... for you guys who have messed with these endura bumpers, it looks like the DS "wing" can't go up/back as well as the PS wing. It seems to be making contact with the valance/fender/gril shell. I'm thinking I might use my Dremel or Foredom rotary tool to relieve the radius on the inside by about 1/8" or so. The radiused section would actually be under the knife edge of the grill/fender so you'd never see the difference if there actually was any. I have to do a another trial fit before I actually do any surgery.







I have some spare paint to cover where I'd grind, but it'd basically be the back edge of the bumper. I don't know how thick the coating is in that area... maybe James has a guess since he did some surgery on one of his projects.-Mike

rsr

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2022, 06:11:26 PM »
Anyone know how many years after the last 69s were built Chevrolet offered the endura bumper as a replacement part or could be purchased over the counter and were there different manufactures other than GM producing them using a GM part number? As most of you know some sheetmetal and trim was sold into the early 90s..

william

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2022, 08:18:23 PM »
Not that long. When I got started in the hobby in the late '70s, GMPD no longer serviced it.
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william

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2022, 12:35:54 AM »
Took some digging.

From the late great Warren Malkin, Jr. No one knew parts like Warren.
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rsr

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2022, 01:00:11 AM »
Thanks William for sharing Warren's wealth of knowledge....On another note how long...... guessing after 1975 would the aftermarket suppliers tool up to reproduce them ?

william

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Re: The "new" OER Endura Bumper
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2022, 01:51:24 AM »
There were no reproduction parts for some time. Among the first few were the '69 4-speed console shift tunnel and the '67 RS LH door trim, sometime in the '80s. The VE3 bumper has had a few reproductions, early ['90s?] bumpers fit poorly.

Just for the record, Chevy never used the trademarked 'Endura' name in marketing the bumper. It was referred to as the 'color-matched bumper' or just 'special front bumper'. Canadian Camaro brochures called it the 'Astro' bumper.

Here in the rust belt, the uncoated inner structure quickly corroded. The outer rubber skin would swell and rupture. Tossed a few of them in the dumpster back in the day.
Learning more and more about less and less...

 

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