OEM 4 Speed Shifter Removal Procedure?

[Higgi 67]

Looking for help with defining the easiest procedure to remove the factory 4 Speed shifter. I know that sounds odd but here is why. 

I haven't done it since I was 17 (that was 1983).   Now at 53 I'm paralyzed and having friends help me bring my car, which has been stored since 1985, up to snuff so I can sell it. In 1984 I purchased a Muncie imprinted shifter at a car show parts swap meet.   A couple of months ago I had my broher-in-law swap the handle into my car. (at some point I had disassembled the swap meet shifter, which was in need of a rebuild so the handle was ready for install).  I thought it was just removing one pin in the shifter and a straight forward exchange.   Turns out it was not that easy (at least not with all the interferences in the car).  He was bound and determined to do it in the car and spent 7 hours working on it. 

We thought it was all good.  Yesterday my neighbor got in and was trying to put it in reverse and something in the shifter came apart and it doesn't work now.   I think the only option is to pull it out.  If I recall it can't be done without undoing the transmission crossmember and moving it back...  Is that correct?  My car does have a console too.

[Mike S]

 If it has the original reverse lockout plunger then I suspect the band cracked and the ball bearings came out.
With that aside,when I Installed the Muncie shifter in my 67 recently it was done without having to move the transmission cross member. I installed the shifter from the bottom up while a helper held onto the handle in the car. Then I was able to position the shifter onto the mounting bracket, then bolted that whole assembly to the cross member and installed & adjust the linkage. I made an aluminum alignment wedge to lock and position the rods for proper linkage adjustment.
In your situation it should be the reverse. I would separate the shifter linkage arms from the plates on the transmissions side cover, then remove the clips that retain the linkage to the shifter body and remove the rods, then loosen the shifter from its main mounting plate, then unbolt the plate from the cross member and separate the shifter from the plate and then slide the shifter down. At this point it is assumed you have the console plate out and the floor boot removed.

Mike

[Higgi 67]

Thanks for replying Mike.   I'll study the pics and AIM illustrations and advise whoever I can find to work on it to follow your suggestion.  I have to admit I'm drawing a blank on the "ball bearings"  reference.   There is is the pivot pin the handle mounts on and a spring to bias the handle away from the reverse path of the shift pattern, but I don't remember anything beyond that has a solid "lockout"...  Mine is a very early production 67 (Nov 66') so maybe the M20 shifter did not have it then?   I've scanned the M20 illustrations in the AIM (pgs 316 - 320) and really don't quite get to that breakdown. Found a pic on eBay (hopefully included with this post).  Is this what you are referring to?   I guess it is concealed until full disassembly.

I'll have to compile step-by-step instructions for this procedure with pics and correlating illustrations if there is any hope of getting it out and being repaired... I just fear this has set me back another month or more in being able to sell it (without some con guy trying to argue the price down a grand for a shifter repair... everything I need to do now turns into a nightmare - while able bodied I would have dug into it on Saturday morning and been done sometime after lunch) 

Nobody I ever get to work on it has any experience with this stuff (and the guys I do know with expertise always want to haul my car to their shops or they won't work on it - and they have too muck "traffic" of people I don't know wandering thru... so I'm not risking that)

[Mike S]

Yes, that is the reverse plunger I am talking about. Looking under the orange cap you will see a metal band that covers about 5 ball bearings, each in a hole. On mine, the band cracked and the balls came out. That may be the case with yours possibly.

Mike

[Higgi 67]

NOTE!: THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT DESIGNS!  I have some pics of the pieces that were scrounged together of the swap meet shifter and it is the "SECOND DESIGN".   Yours (and likely the one in my original early production car) has the "FIRST DESIGN".   Notice the note at the bottom of the GM document instructing to use "SECOND DESIGN",  I have to conclude the "FIRST DESIGN"  is prone to exactly the failure that occurred to yours (and likely mine)  and GM introduced a mid  model year change to correct it... Now I have to hope all the little pieces are still in my box of the swap meet shifter that was disassembled...

I was just bit by a comparable issue with my numbers matching original Quadraject Carburetor. Early first months of 67 model year production had a fault prone float "plunger design" shut off that got redesigned typical needle and seat introduced.  Fortunately they produce an internal retrofit kit to upgrade that issue and the internals in mine needed upgraded for today's modern fuels and their incompatibility to the older sealing components anyhow.   It is really surprising that the plunger design in mine survived until I parked it in storage back in 1985.

[KurtS]

You've seen http://www.camaros.org/shifters.shtml?

[Higgi 67]

Yes,  I've seen it in  the past,  but I never took notice of / didn't remember the part on the reverse lockout...  Did not seem interesting,  that is of course until you have that break and then it is very interesting,  Still one thing is a bit puzzling as the description of the First Design clearly list it has a spring but the exploded view does not seem to show one, but the Second Design clearly does (Item #18)...

The obvious question at this point is what is the fix?   Service parts don't seem to be available [except a couple of listings of the Second Design "LOCK OUT ASSY"  pin at at RIDICULOUSLY high price].   Is there an easy replacement for the band?   What if one or more of the ball bearings is lost?  Is there a reproduction source for the simpler Second Design?  Is the spring common between the two designs?   What is the "Retainer Ring"  made of (metal or rubber?)...].  If I was able bodied I'd improvise a "Second Design" with a suitable Grade 3 bolt ground down a bit, ground flat on the head, and matched with a comparable spring / retainer...  but I'm not and need friends to do everything.

Based on Mike S reply/comments (thank you Mike) and review of pics I found / AIM documentation I compiled a draft procedure for the removal of the shifter assembly (remember I'm asking complete novices to do this work for me).  Tonight I ask my evening caregiver (young, good mechanical aptitude, great attitude to do the first part (2 pages of steps "in the car"), and she has no experience whatsoever working on cars) and it went ok except one unforeseen hiccup - the chrome lock color of the two piece shift knob is frozen on the shift handle stud... but somehow she was able to get the console shift plate assembly, Item #10, and the floor boot to come past it.  Is the answer soaking the stud with Liquid Wrench?  It did not seem like it was corroded... 

I get the impression this is a typical issue because the original Muncie monogramed shift handle in my car when I bought it (1983) was broke off and welded back on (looked bad and we didn't trust it so my Dad swapped it out with another he found at the auto salvage yard he worked part time at, but it did not have the word "Muncie" on it and my original L30M20 was a Saginaw anyhow... but ironically I blew that the first time I tried to do a burn out and we were putting a Muncie in...).   

Based on feedback my brother-in-law gave me based on his initial attempt to remove the shifter I think that collar is going to interfere/catch on the lip of the opening based on the steep angle required to pull it out/clear the transmission.... so it will likely need to come off and I don't want it to be broken off this one...

I would appreciate review and constructive feedback on the attached procedure (as I'm defining it as I think it should go only based on visioning it in my head)...

Thanks,

Dan

[Higgi 67]

I started digging through the GM part numbering / catalogs and found three revisions of this replacement part [#3988379, #325050, and #3923540].  One revision for the lockout assy is #325050.  After searching availability for each of the revisions I came across a seller with one of this part number that for me was still a very steep price ($69 plus shipping) but given the task is still going to be extremely difficult to get some of my friends to do this part comes pre-assembled and should be far more robust than the original "FIRST DESIGN".  i'll also be able to know that my car will be sold to someone that should never have a problem with this item again.

Note,  I also found sellers trying to get $225 (on an Oldsmobile site) and one on eBay at $90 just for the "pin".   I think the pin necessitated the control shift lever it inserts in to be a different part # because I think it may require a larger hole for that pin than the "FIRST DESIGN".

Attached are pics of the part purchased.

[Higgi 67]

Side by side comparison of "FIRST DESIGN" & "SECOND DESIGN"

[KurtS]

Nice find!

[ZLP955]

Great research and write-up Dan!

[Higgi 67]

HELP - LAST MINUTE QUESTION OR CONCERN.  It is 2:30 AM and I'm laying here and something has been eating at me since I observed my caregiver complete installation / swap of the new parts.  She had to "tap" in with a fair amount of resistance Item #25 while assembling the new SECOND DESIGN.  The original combination of components of my shifter (FIRST DESIGN) did NOT have an Item #25. The second Muncie shifter I had bought in 1984 I can see did have it...  The new Reverse Lockout seems good,  but there is what appears to be a significant amount of "drag" between the shift levers... if you hold one, another can be moved with moderate force, BUT I FEAR THIS MAY RESULT IN A SITUATION OF THE TRANSMISSION TRYING TO GO INTO TWO GEARS AT ONCE... It has been a long time and I don't remember how much torque it takes for rotation/engagement of each gear selector on the Muncie transmission. 

My initial impression was maybe it was a good thing everything would be snug in the shifter...  I was thinking it would probably kind of work its way in after a number (two or three dozen) of shift movements and loosen some.  Might be a good quality/new feel.  But it just seemed after thinking about it that it could be a problem to the transmission itself.  I've had two caregivers demonstrate for me the drag resistance between the shift arms...  They have enough drag between them to make me nervous. 

My neighbor is coming over around lunch time to reinstall the shifter. I don't want him to go through all that work only to find out that there is an issue and have to pull it back out (or worse damage the transmission)...  but I also fear that if Item #25 is removed that the shifter could have a real sloppy feel.   Any advice or gut feel as to what I should do? Bothering/finding people with time to work on it for me is hard enough without having to ask them to do it twice...   ANY EXPERIENCE / FEEL FOR THIS ONE.   Do you know if every shifter is supposed to necessarily have Item #25?  Am I just worried for nothing?  (sucks to not be able to do any of this myself, but it is my reality)...

[Higgi 67]

I've put a pic of the reverse lockout "band" I have from the spare shifter parts. Would someone verify if it is still good? My cars original shifter lockout band was definitely broke because it came apart in 3 pieces... This other shifter that I have had laying around in pieces (don't even remember taking it apart 30+ years ago nor why) has a band that is out that appears to be ok but I'm not sure. It coils around on itself with an overlap but no connection.

The brand new NOS piece I purchased unknown to me had the tip center compression plunger "frozen" in place.  My neighbor put the shifter rebuilt with that back in,  got frustrated when it didn't work pulled it back out,  tore the shifter apart again far enough that he could compress the plunger in with a pliers (but didn't want to take the time to remove that assembly from the carrier properly soak /lube it ...) . After it broke free and moved in a couple of times (but in a clunky manner" he sprayed it with WD-40, reassembled it,  put the shifter back in and it takes a great deal of effort to get it to go into reverse [with the shift linkage rod not connected] with a big pop just like the plunger motion that he popped loose and hastily/impatiently reassembled into the shifter. He got frustrated and threw in the towel and said he is done and I should just get a Hurst and be done with it...  I informed him that wouldn't be done and that would miss the point of originality... He still is fed up and won't pull it out again... 

I'm hoping if I can show him a piece with a smooth functioning lockout I can convince him to do it one more time. I managed to talk my caregiver through disassembly of my old one/original one from my car and almost everything came apart ok except the "washer" is frozen on the end of the ball bearing carrier (but she was even able to recover all 6 ball bearings and get the red/orange colored plastic cap off without cracking it). If she can locate a washer for it in my spare shifter parts I think there is enough pieces to reassemble a "FIRST DESIGN" unit - assuming the band is good as shown/described...  I cringe going that rout because the money and time invested in the SECOND DESIGN purchased,  but I can't get people to work on it as is and this is just dragging out so long it is  crazy (can't go into details but I'm also losing $350 a month in interest in debt I can't pay off without selling the car - so the delays do represent cost,  but I also don't want to be backed into a corner where I have to accept a less than value price on the car because it needs this basic mechanical work...) 

Sorry,  I'm just very frustrated [but still patient with the people helping me] and need to coordinate getting it done as soon as possible,  I think my brother-in-law will be here Wednesday and I would like to be as prepared for the things that he can do as possible...

[Mike S]

 The way I fixed my 1st design lockout when the ball retaining band cracked was to use two PCV hose spring clamps. This replaces the broken spring band that covers the balls. You will have to trim the ears off the bands with a Dremel w/cutoff wheel,  or something like that. Using some grease as a sticky glue on the balls, reassemble the plunger and balls (the grease will hold the balls in place) then slide one of the PCV spring clamps on. This is tricky being the ears are trimmed off but when you get a side over the assembly then the rest of the clamp slides on easy. Then apply some grease on the clamp (this is for the clamps to slide against each other when assembled) and then slide the 2nd clamp over the first, but with the open end opposite the other.
  The reason I recommend 2 clamps is it gives a much firmer resistance feel when shifting into reverse. With one clamp as a band, it was hard to tell the difference between 1st and reverse shifter positions. 
My fix is going on 3 years now with no issues.

Mike

[Higgi 67]

Thanks for the information Mike.