Author Topic: Big Block road race cars?  (Read 6418 times)

crossboss

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Big Block road race cars?
« on: December 14, 2018, 08:34:15 PM »
Boys,
Dumb question: Did Chevy/Penske make/build a potential 1969 Camaro Big Block road race car? Reason I ask, didn't Bud Moore build a 1969 Boss 429 car to compete in either 'A' Sedan or Baby Grand National competition? Thanks ahead for any info.
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camaroboy68ss

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 10:27:12 PM »
Penske never built anything like that to my knowledge, the lower tier NASCAR series (todays xfinity series) was where mustangs and camaro's raced in stock car racing, though i dont know if they were big block powered or not, they probably were though. There were some big block road race cars that raced in Australia, one of the original ZL-1s went there to be a road race car. 
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crossboss

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 10:34:08 PM »
Penske never built anything like that to my knowledge, the lower tier NASCAR series (todays xfinity series) was where mustangs and camaro's raced in stock car racing, though i dont know if they were big block powered or not, they probably were though. There were some big block road race cars that raced in Australia, one of the original ZL-1s went there to be a road race car.




Wow! Interesting that a ZL-1 car was a road race car. Any pictures?
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

69Z28-RS

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2018, 11:06:29 PM »
Trans Am had their 5 liter limit, but as Trans Am lost favor with the factories, and IMSA GT racing began in the early/mid '70's, big blocks were running.   A friend ran a 427 in a '73 Camaro in IMSA GT...  Running against big block Corvettes etc...
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Trans Åm

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2018, 03:25:35 AM »
Nick

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2018, 04:02:03 PM »
Gene Felton Big Block 1969 IMSA Camaro

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/Camaro-Felton%23.html

The top picture notwithstanding, Felton had one win with the Big Block '69.

Jon Mello

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2018, 05:56:02 PM »
Penske was planning to run a big block Camaro at Watkins Glen in 1968 but it never came to pass.





Don Yenko and Bob Grossman ran a Camaro with an aluminum big block in the early '70s at Daytona and Sebring.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/smuckatelli/12002232374/in/photostream/
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crossboss

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2018, 07:35:58 PM »
Thanks to everyone, you guys are awesome! I just learned some new stuff on this site.
--Scott
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

69Z28-RS

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2018, 11:50:03 PM »
My friend, Robert A Christiansen (Bob), ran 427's in his '69 z28 and his '73 Camaro in IMSA GT races and his 302 in TransAm.  He ran 25 sports car races between 1968 and 1978 or so.  His best finishes were 3rd at Daytona in '70? and 3rd at Talladega in '76...   Another friend, Bob Mitchell, ran 27 races between '67 and 81, including Lemans on a team with Cale Yarborough around 1980?.  His best finishes were 1st twice.  Both of those guys bought new '69 Z28s and drove them to their shops and converted them to road racers!   MItchell's was bought with the JL8, while Christiansen bought his car off the dealer lot and then obtained a 'service duty disk brake rear' via Vince Piggins.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Oldtimer

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2018, 03:22:44 PM »
My friend, Robert A Christiansen (Bob), ran 427's in his '69 z28 and his '73 Camaro in IMSA GT races and his 302 in TransAm.  He ran 25 sports car races between 1968 and 1978 or so.  His best finishes were 3rd at Daytona in '70? and 3rd at Talladega in '76...   Another friend, Bob Mitchell, ran 27 races between '67 and 81, including Lemans on a team with Cale Yarborough around 1980?.  His best finishes were 1st twice.  Both of those guys bought new '69 Z28s and drove them to their shops and converted them to road racers!   MItchell's was bought with the JL8, while Christiansen bought his car off the dealer lot and then obtained a 'service duty disk brake rear' via Vince Piggins.

One of which I owned, for a short period of time.








crossboss

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2018, 05:38:28 PM »
How did it handle? Inquiring minds want to know...
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

Trans Åm

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2018, 09:07:41 PM »
My friend, Robert A Christiansen (Bob), ran 427's in his '69 z28 and his '73 Camaro in IMSA GT races and his 302 in TransAm.  He ran 25 sports car races between 1968 and 1978 or so.  His best finishes were 3rd at Daytona in '70? and 3rd at Talladega in '76...   Another friend, Bob Mitchell, ran 27 races between '67 and 81, including Lemans on a team with Cale Yarborough around 1980?.  His best finishes were 1st twice.  Both of those guys bought new '69 Z28s and drove them to their shops and converted them to road racers!   MItchell's was bought with the JL8, while Christiansen bought his car off the dealer lot and then obtained a 'service duty disk brake rear' via Vince Piggins.

One of which I owned, for a short period of time.








Yeah, so whats the story on how you came to won it, why, and how/why you sold it? What happened while it was in your hands?

What year were those pictures taken?


Thanks for posting those!
Nick

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2018, 11:13:32 PM »
My friend, Robert A Christiansen (Bob), ran 427's in his '69 z28 and his '73 Camaro in IMSA GT races and his 302 in TransAm.  He ran 25 sports car races between 1968 and 1978 or so.  His best finishes were 3rd at Daytona in '70? and 3rd at Talladega in '76...   Another friend, Bob Mitchell, ran 27 races between '67 and 81, including Lemans on a team with Cale Yarborough around 1980?.  His best finishes were 1st twice.  Both of those guys bought new '69 Z28s and drove them to their shops and converted them to road racers!   MItchell's was bought with the JL8, while Christiansen bought his car off the dealer lot and then obtained a 'service duty disk brake rear' via Vince Piggins.

One of which I owned, for a short period of time.






'Oldtimer' and I have talked/chatted a couple of times since I found out about his purchase of that car.   He purchased it from the same guy in TN that purchased it from Bob Mitchell.   That car was ordered and delivered new with the JL8 system.  When I began working with Bob Mitchell in '74 (on Army Missile development), I asked him what happend to the car..  he told me who he sold it too and I spent a few years trying to find him not knowing anything but his name and 'Tennessee'... but was never successful... :)

From our discussions, it seemed that Oldtimer did not realize the car was a JL8 car when he had it... (He was interested in racing it).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Oldtimer

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Re: Big Block road race cars?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2018, 03:26:35 AM »
My friend, Robert A Christiansen (Bob), ran 427's in his '69 z28 and his '73 Camaro in IMSA GT races and his 302 in TransAm.  He ran 25 sports car races between 1968 and 1978 or so.  His best finishes were 3rd at Daytona in '70? and 3rd at Talladega in '76...   Another friend, Bob Mitchell, ran 27 races between '67 and 81, including Lemans on a team with Cale Yarborough around 1980?.  His best finishes were 1st twice.  Both of those guys bought new '69 Z28s and drove them to their shops and converted them to road racers!   MItchell's was bought with the JL8, while Christiansen bought his car off the dealer lot and then obtained a 'service duty disk brake rear' via Vince Piggins.

One of which I owned, for a short period of time.






'Oldtimer' and I have talked/chatted a couple of times since I found out about his purchase of that car.   He purchased it from the same guy in TN that purchased it from Bob Mitchell.   That car was ordered and delivered new with the JL8 system.  When I began working with Bob Mitchell in '74 (on Army Missile development), I asked him what happend to the car..  he told me who he sold it too and I spent a few years trying to find him not knowing anything but his name and 'Tennessee'... but was never successful... :)

From our discussions, it seemed that Oldtimer did not realize the car was a JL8 car when he had it... (He was interested in racing it).. :)


"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world."

Okay, you asked, and I will elaborate.

My enthusiasm for road racing had been created when I learned about Green Valley Raceway, which was less than an hour from my home town.  Not wanting to hijack this thread, but here are some videos captured from Super 8 film I took at some of the early races I attended.

Video 1 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Video 2 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Video 3 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Video 4 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

I apologize for the opening of the first one, but I was 18, and had just received a movie camera.

Fast forward to my freshman year at Texas A&M University, and I discovered the local sports car club, and entered my '64 Ford Falcon in autocross and rallye events.  Through the sports car club, I met an individual who was racing a Lotus Elan, and helped him on it, including being his crew chief at an IMSA race held at the recently constructed Texas World Speedway.

That individual moved to Austin, TX; and after I got my graduate degree, I was fortune enough to get a job there, and continue to work and crew on his car.

I asked him if I could borrow his car to go to an SCCA Driver's School, and his response ended our friendship.  I had committed hundreds of hour to him, and his reaction was that I had to acquire a bond in an equivalent value to what he thought his car was worth.

Well, the premium to acquire that bond would have bought me my own car, and so I started watching the classifieds in the Competition Press and Autoweek newspaper, and finally settled on three cars to attempt to acquire:  A Monte Carlo Ford Falcon that had just been repatriated, a fully prepared Triumph GT6; and a '69 Camaro.

The Camaro sounded like it had promise, as it was advertised as having won its class in a major US endurance race, and after some limited negotiation, I bought what was the former Bolus and Snopes Camaro (verified through a number of sources, including not only a log book, but also even though it was white when I bought it, it was clear that the former color was Grabber Blue.

bolus-02-low by Jim Forte, on Flickr

I still have the rear spoiler that came with the car, which was painted gold when I took deliver, but which I painted black to match the livery, and then when I put a new rear spoiler on it, kept it as a spare.

RealRearSpoiler by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Anyway, the pictures of the car are when it was delivered to my ex/former/late father-in-law's gas station in Dallas, Texas around 1975.  I trailered the car back to Austin, and went to one SCCA Driver's School with it, and let a local shoe drive it on the Sunday Regional Race, where the engine broke.

Ultimately moved back to the Dallas area, and moved the car between and among two different houses, working on it whenever I had a few bucks in my back pocket.

Bought a partially broken Bartz 302, which included a dry sump pan, pump, and tank along the way, and fitted the pan and pump to a semi-prodified Pink Rod 350, and went back to racing for a couple of weekends into the early 80's.  Never really had the money to give the car justice.

Teamed up with a guy who I had, coincidentally, driven against in my first Driver's School, and we joined forces to buy an IMSA/SCCA GT1-spec '82-bodied Corvette.  This was at the time that the SCCA combined A Sedan and A and B Production into GT1.

1982C3Corvette-ARP_zpsea24f736 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

ARPCorvette-2_zpsc68a2ef7 by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Which we turned into a reasonably competitive racer.

ARPCorvette-1_zpsd5168abc by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Along the way, I had also acquired the former Woodson Brothers IMSA Corvette through Baird and Trivette, in Atlanta.  The roller also came with a trailer with a custom fabricated tire rack.  Not my picture, as I didn't get to keep those from my first marriage, or my second, for that matter.

1982WoodsonBrothers by Jim Forte, on Flickr

Had planned to move a lot of what I had acquired for the Camaro to a contemporary IMSA platform, and then go on the circuit (this was late 70's/early 80's), but cooler head prevailed, and the partnership opportunity I reference above presented itself, and I sold the chassis to a local Corvette enthusiast, and we mined the tire rack to be mounted in the back of our crewcab/dually.

Needing to consolidate, and put some cash together, I tendered the '69 Camaro to a local racer/broker, and he flipped it to, as I came to understand, a circle track racer in Louisiana (it had a very substantial rollcage).

From there, I lost track of the car, but kick myself on a regular basis due to the historic/vintage significance of the chassis.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 04:22:24 AM by Oldtimer »

 

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