M22 Rockcrusher applications / percentages of usage

[hubleyman]

Hey Gang,

I was wondering… has anyone compiled a list / spreadsheet that breaks down the known M22 rockcrusher Camaro application percentages by engine usage?  Basically, how many are associated directly to a 302, L78, L89, 427, etc.?

I believe that a specific breakdown by GM isn’t available (only the year-end production totals), but based on the many years of data gathering efforts by this awesome dedicated group of enthusiasts, perhaps someone already created a “guestimate” of percentages using known examples? 

Beyond just a summary percentage, a more detailed breakdown would also be helpful:  How they were verified / source of data (such as window stickers/docs, orphan transmissions that aren’t with their cars anymore, cars that still have their original gear boxes), and even LA vs. NOR cars, etc?

This type of effort has been done before on other categories, but I can’t seem to find anything on the internet specifically covering M22’s.  My motivation for asking this is because I am one of the lucky ones with a ‘69Z that still has its born-with M22, so I"m curious as to how many (theoretically) were installed in Z's versus other applications.

So has this already been done and I just can’t find it, or is this maybe another category that possibly a “volunteer” could take on and then share the results with the community (like them cool gas tank date codes)?

Charlie

[william]

The only way to do this accurately for 1969 would be to pick through all 243,085 build records. Not currently available. But since there is a database of sorts [CRG] a SWAG is possible.

There were 2,117 M22 installations in 1969 Camaros. It was only available with mechanical lifter engines. Just for the record L89 is often listed as an engine option. It was a cylinder head option that required ordering the L78 engine; both L78 and L89 are listed on documents. Therefore the 4,889 L78 build total includes cars also ordered with L89.

I reviewed the db for M22. We have a number of M22s listed with a '69 Camaro VIN but no way of knowing the application. Those were not included as were questionable data. The result is about 5% of the total reported M22 installations: 41% Z/28, 23% L78, 36% COPO.

A problem with working with the resulting data is that COPOs were not built for the first 5 months of production.
   

[Fred Mertz]

Was the M22 also available in the Corvette and Chevelle?
OR does this data include all makes and models for '69?

[william]

M22 was optional for both Corvette and Chevelle. The 2,117 total is only for Camaro.

[hubleyman]

Thanks for the SWAG William,

That's the basic info I was looking for and roughly what I would expect for Z/28 usage vs. others.

Since only a small percentage (5%) indicates validated/known M22 usage, I realize that it's not going to be very accurate at this point in time.  Perhaps we can improve those results by conducting a survey, or creating an M22 registry, or   I would be willing to take on such a project, if someone else hasn't already started the efforts.  I'm pretty good with creating spreadsheets...

I know that many cars had M22's added, and some original cars no longer have them, so it would be very important to validate and document the source of info.  And they can fairly easily be faked/cloned, which wouldn't help the database.

But there are definitely documented factory equipped M22 cars out there, so it could be a worthwhile adventure.  I believe there are more people with vehicle info that would be willing to share than what is currently available in your database.  Many people don't offer info unless they are asked specifically....

So how about it, can we work with this topic a little further?

Charlie

[Steve Shauger]

Three of my cars came with M22's., a Z28 w/410, L78 w/410 & COPO, not sure if they are in the database.

[rts]

I don't think in a corvette you could get an M-22 unlees the car was an L-88 in 67-69,  ZR-1 in 70 or L-S6, ZR-2 in 71 or ZR-1 in 72
Correct if I'm wrong!

[ko-lek-tor]

Curiosity is getting the best of me? Production figures according to the PDF of RPOs here on the site.
Z28=  20302
L34=    2018
L78=    4889
L72=    1000 (liberal est)
L89=      311
ZL1          69
Total= 28589

M21=  26501
M22=    2117
Total= 28618

Even if every one of those engine RPOs listed were 4 spds and they were clearly not, except Z's, there are more trans. than cars to put them in?
And this does not even count the 37,816 M20's , albeit some were Saginaws.

Additionally, Total of these 4spd #s= 66434. Yet, At the top of page under total 4spd equipped cars for 69 it =55813! Should not all the numbers jive?

[william]

You overlooked L48 and LM1: 21,273 & 10,406.

Any Camaro, even a 6 cylinder, could be ordered with a 4-speed.

[bcmiller]

Curiosity is getting the best of me? Production figures according to the PDF of RPOs here on the site.
Z28=  20302
L34=    2018
L78=    4889
L72=    1000 (liberal est)
L89=      311
ZL1          69
Total= 28589

M21=  26501
M22=    2117
Total= 28618

Even if every one of those engine RPOs listed were 4 spds and they were clearly not, except Z's, there are more trans. than cars to put them in?
And this does not even count the 37,816 M20's , albeit some were Saginaws.

Additionally, Total of these 4spd #s= 66434. Yet, At the top of page under total 4spd equipped cars for 69 it =55813! Should not all the numbers jive?

Let me take a look later.

[ko-lek-tor]

You overlooked L48 and LM1: 21,273 & 10,406.

Any Camaro, even a 6 cylinder, could be ordered with a 4-speed.

Maybe you misunderstood. I was only looking at applications of M21 & M22, hence the RPOs listed. Only mentioned the M20 as we know all Zs & SS are not M21 & M22. L48 & LM1 had to be M20 and the rest Saginaw M20 in low HP, correct me if I am mistaken. I just am making an observation based on the OP M22 ?

[william]

Now on the same page

The M21 & M22 total is even more fubar if BB/TH400 and M20 Z28 is factored at 15% [plus 47 ZL1s]: 23,924. Obviously the M21 & M22 production totals are not correct.

[bcmiller]

I have a feeling that the M22 numbers may be right, but the M21 numbers are probably too high.  At least the M21 numbers are high based on only being available with Z28, L34, L78 and 427 cars.

Will do some more checking....

[Hans L]

Any Camaro, even a 6 cylinder, could be ordered with a 4-speed.

My first Camaro was an original Hugger Orange, 6 cylinder, 4sp car!