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Author Topic: Is it a real SS  (Read 4452 times)
Aussie67rsss
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« on: May 09, 2013, 02:42:02 AM »

Iím having trouble confirming the authenticity of my 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, I know itís a genuine RS but a friend has indicate that it may not be a true SS car. Below is a photo of my cowl tag and the vehicle. Can you please tell me if I have a genuine SS car?
His and now my concerns are it has a 10 bolt diff and possibly a 327ci engine due to the size of the balancer. The car now has a TH350 Auto in it Iím aware it was originally a 4 speed manual car.
I would also greatly appreciate it if you can decode the engine number as below. Thanks
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1967 RS/SS
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 04:34:29 AM »

Based on the tag info, it's either an L48 or an L30, as you're probably aware; However, the engine block is a 327 application from a '68 Camaro, assembled at Norwood not LA - so not original to your car. If the suffix code is 'ME', it's originally a '68 327/210hp engine; 'EE' would be an L30 327/275hp, but the photo looks more like 'ME' on my screen. Engine pad stamp shows a Flint block assembled November 27, 1967 with a partial VIN assigned to a Norwood Camaro assembled in December 1967.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 04:47:01 AM »

Thanks yes I assumed the motor wasn't original however I didn't think it was from a 68, thanks I'm more interested in trying to work out if its a genuine SS car excluding the current motor. Thanks again
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 04:56:26 AM »

OK, the concern over the balancer indicated you thought engine was original. As far as I know, with the exception of a very limited number, all 4P cars (either L30 or L48) should have a 12-bolt rear, so looks like the car is missing original engine, trans and rear end. What's the rear end assembly stamp from the front of the passenger-side axle tube?
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 07:21:34 PM »

Thanks yes I assumed the motor wasn't original however I didn't think it was from a 68,

The partial vin on the stamp pad of the block is for a 68.   Check the casting number of the block, it is most likely a 678 block.
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Russ
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 07:38:53 PM »

What about the hood spring trick? Did'nt the SS's have 28 vs non ss 26 coils?

http://www.camaros.org/underhood.shtml

"Differences Between the SS Hood Spring and the Non-SS Hood Spring
As the SS hood is significantly heavier than the base hood, a different spring was need to assist in lifting the SS hood. (The hood hinges to which the springs attach are identical.) A comparative photo below shows the two different spring types in a side-by-side comparison. The physical details of the base and SS springs are tabulated in the table below, and further illustrated in the schematic below. These data apply to all three years of the first-generation Camaro. The non-SS springs were also applied to the ZL2 cowl-induction hood available on 1969 SS or Z28 cars. "



RichP
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 10:57:36 PM »

What's the axle code?
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2013, 11:03:01 PM »

Look at firewall see if there is a hole drilled in firewall above the accelerator lingage. Go to forums on transmiision show good picture of muncie 4speed hole. If that is right hole should be ss car!
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Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2013, 11:21:46 PM »

Thanks I'm in the process of removing thick paint from the diff to confirm,  I also have a photo of the firewall I'll post later today,  thanks
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Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 01:14:29 AM »

So the code on the passenger front of the diff is PW 1227G the VIN on the door is 124377L125415 does that help?
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2013, 01:39:11 AM »

So the code on the passenger front of the diff is PW 1227G the VIN on the door is 124377L125415 does that help?

That's weird.  PW is a '67 only axle code, but I believe 12/27 is too late of an axle for a 12A car.  What say you, Kurt?

Paul
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Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2013, 02:02:07 AM »

I took these today as well,
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1967 RS/SS
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2013, 02:47:01 AM »

Well since it's an early build car, the 'economy' ratio (2.73:1) non-posi 10 bolt could be original to the car if it's an L30, but as Paul said, it seems to be dated too late for the trim tag date......
Probably the biggest clue remaining is whether the firewall is penetrated for a Muncie or Saginaw cable, also as stated above.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 03:28:53 AM by ZLP955 » Logged

Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2013, 02:54:16 AM »

Thanks Guys, does the above or this firewall pic help? it shows the current speedo cable penetrating just under the steering column? I'm aware the current TH350 is not original
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Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2013, 03:25:22 AM »

It hard to see but this is the date code on the diff, am i correct it looks like J206? does that mean Oct 20th 6 being 1966
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 01:52:55 AM »

You're looking for where the speedo cable penetrates the firewall, either in the Muncie location or the non-Muncie (i.e. if the car originally had a Saginaw trans) hole:
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 02:15:19 AM »

Any updates from the OP on firewall piercing for a Muncie or a Saginaw trans?
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 03:25:17 AM »

I visited the car yesterday before I left for Bali, i couldn't see or feel a hole in that position it was near imposable to get my hand in there to feel and im not confidant i was in the right place, but i couldn't feel one. Would it be visible from under the dash??? The hood spring had 29 coils and is 175mm (end coil to end coil) long, I don't know if that helps? when she comes home early next week ill try and take a better look for the hole. I take it if it was a manual car it must or should be there?? thanks again
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 03:39:50 AM »

As your car currently has a TH350, the speedo cable is likely to be routed through the hole labelled 'Non-Muncie Hole' in the photo above (by the firewall use block). So if you definitely can't find the 'Muncie Hole' below the windshield wiper motor, looks like the car originally had a Saginaw 4-speed, which (as I understand it) rules out possibility of the car being a factory SS.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 03:48:09 AM »

So it can have a 4P code but possibly not be a true SS?
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 06:38:40 AM »

So it can have a 4P code but possibly not be a true SS?
4P can denote an L48 (SS 350) or an L30/M20; Worth reading these:
http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#67Codes
Your car's situation is very interesting, because if you read the above links, the timeframe for commencement of 4P on the tags for L30 cars is believed to be Late December 1966/January 1967, and although your car's trim tag is early December, the 10-bolt assembly date (if original to the car) is also late December. Hopefully Kurt will offer his opinion....
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 03:22:48 AM »

Any updates on the location of the speedo cable through the firewall?  Huh
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
Aussie67rsss
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 05:15:35 AM »

Thanks, no not at this stage, Ive had a look but i assume this hole is up under the firewall high and possibly very hard to see, I'm expecting the motor to come out late this year and ill check again, I would however appreciate any help in decoding the engine number, i want to understand if its a 327 or 350ci? 18N352974 VI127 E
Again THANKS
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 05:26:51 AM »

Did you see this?
Based on the tag info, it's either an L48 or an L30, as you're probably aware; However, the engine block is a 327 application from a '68 Camaro, assembled at Norwood not LA - so not original to your car. If the suffix code is 'ME', it's originally a '68 327/210hp engine; 'EE' would be an L30 327/275hp, but the photo looks more like 'ME' on my screen. Engine pad stamp shows a Flint block assembled November 27, 1967 with a partial VIN assigned to a Norwood Camaro assembled in December 1967.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 06:08:56 AM »

Thanks sorry where do I find the ME code I do know that one of the heads has an ME written on it in crayon?
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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2013, 06:23:36 AM »

In the 3rd picture you posted right back at the beginning, showing the machined pad stamp in front of the right hand cylinder head. The 'M' in the suffix 'ME' is very faint, but it can just be made out. Pad stamp looks like VI127ME.
V denotes Flint, Michigan, engine plant.
I127 denotes November 27 (of 1967) engine assembly date (I and 1 were interchanged).
ME denotes 327/210hp base V8.
The engine decoding info is here.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2013, 06:27:40 AM »

Ok thanks yes know I can  see the M so would that 327/210hp have had fulie heads?
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1967 RS/SS
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2013, 06:30:01 AM »

I guess you can't help wonder why they would have taken the original 67 engine out and put a 68 in,  I think this was only about 3 years ago but I have no way of finding out...
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2013, 06:37:34 AM »

Ok thanks yes know I can  see the M so would that 327/210hp have had fulie heads?
Not sure, no expert but I think it could have had any of a number of head castings, 290, 291, 461, 462, etc.
If you haven't removed the valve covers, you may be able to narrow down what heads you have by the shape of the end casting - found this site, but not certain how accurate it's info is:
http://www.fastnuf.com/Headguide.html
As a rule, if the heads are GM and have tapped accessory holes in the ends, they are from the '69 model year onwards, no accessory holes would be '68 model year and earlier.
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Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2013, 01:19:17 PM »

  The Heads probably are not be original to the block, I really don't think the 210 hp. Engine would have had Fuelie Heads.  If you want to go to the bother of pulling the Valve covers you can find the Casting date on top of the Heads.  As for the Firewall piercing, you can see it easier from the Engine side.
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 05:29:14 PM »

Can anyone tell me if the muncie  speedo cable firewall piercings the same in 69 camaro as in 67? if not is there a picture showing 69 firewall. Terry
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 08:26:19 PM »

Can anyone tell me if the muncie  speedo cable firewall piercings the same in 69 camaro as in 67? if not is there a picture showing 69 firewall. Terry

Its the same.  Like the pic above only difference is the back-up light switch hole.
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2013, 09:06:45 AM »

Thanks DW.
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« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 07:32:53 PM »

I guess you can't help wonder why they would have taken the original 67 engine out and put a 68 in,  I think this was only about 3 years ago but I have no way of finding out...
Back in the 70's I blew a number of engines on an olds. Didn't really care, I could get another From the junk yard for less than 100 bucks. Did lots of motor swaps, it was faster and much cheaper than a rebuild, and nobody cared about matching numbers on a driver.
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