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Author Topic: Stamping Tool for VIN on Block & Trans  (Read 5552 times)
Larry Gibson
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« on: March 26, 2013, 09:02:21 AM »

Was the stamping tool for the VIN number used on the block also used to stamp the VIN on the transmission? The reason I ask is that I just pulled the engine out of my 69 Z and found the last 4 digits of the VIN stamped on the rough cast area by the oil filter. The stamping of course is very hard to see although the 4 digits I see are clear. So far I can't see any other letters or numbers in front of those four. The VIN stamping on the transmission is very clear but the first few letters are kinda light.

A little background info on this Z. Bought it in November 1983 and knew at the time that the block had been decked on a previous rebuild that blueprinted & balanced the engine. I also knew it was a real Z by the X33D80 on the trim tag. I was looking for a Z at the time and this was a nice car.

I have been doing a lot of research on CRG lately and have used that to make some discoveries about my car. I pulled the engine on Sunday in preparation to fix a rear main seal leak and some clean up and detailing. In the process, I checked part numbers, date codes, took pictures and created a document listing what I found. Of course I found some incorrect pieces(some I knew about already) but also found a lot of original items.

Let me know what you think about the stamping tool.

Thanks,

Larry
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rszmjt
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 10:10:53 AM »

Larry, Yes the same gang holder was used on the Transmission and the engine, so the characters/fonts should match. The Vin's are usually very hard to read in the rough cast area and sometimes only carefull scrutiny with a magnifying glass will reveal them, although I have seen others that are easily read, kinda depends on the roughness of the casting in that area and if Brutus was on the stamp that day! . It looks like your trans build date is P9E06A, which is P=Muncie,9=1969,E=May,06=6th day,A=M20 Wide Ratio. I am guessing your car is 06A production on the cowl tag?
BTW - That fill plug has seen better days, looks like it is going to be hard to get out and replace.?
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 10:59:03 AM »

Yes, the trim tag shows 06A as the time built code. The trans is an M20 as shown by the two rings on it.  See attached pictures. I have looked at the VIN on the block with a magnifying glass and also used a crayon and I can only make out the last 4 numbers of the VIN.

Larry
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KurtS
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 02:34:07 PM »

Actually, there are several documented examples of cars that had the VIN stamped on the engine and trans with two different sets of stamps. It's unknown why.

I've only seen one other black with blue interior 69. It was on ebay recently and also was a Z.

Welcome!
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 03:07:55 PM »

Kurt,

     Thanks for the welcome! I've been hanging around CRG for a couple of years and have learned a lot about my car as a result.

     As a result of the thread on cowl induction hoods, I was able to verify that my Z originally came with the cowl hood. It was on the car when i bought it but had no wiring, solenoid, relay or frame on the back of the hood. I dug out the parts I got with the car recently and found the door(knew I had that), solenoid, relay, and grommet for the hood. Other items that came with the car is the backdrive linkage and some shifter rods(Car has a aftermarket Hurst shifter in it), chrome exhaust tips from the original exhaust, NOS door and roofrail weatherstrips, and a few other miscellaneous items.

    I still need to document some other things like the bell housing, flywheel, starter, etc but after I do that I'd like to post what I've found if that is OK.

    Is it fairly common to be able to only see a few of the VIN numbers on the rough casting of the block? I have no doubt now that it is the original engine based on the car build date and the casting date of the block.

    Thanks,

Larry
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BillOhio
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »

My block is stamped on same place and the number is tough to see. The light has to be just right. Neat car you have
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1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 11:34:58 PM »

Hey Larry. My 69Z is an 06A car. Your body number is 258 behind mine. That's the closest I have seen so by far.





Yes, the trim tag shows 06A as the time built code. The trans is an M20 as shown by the two rings on it.  See attached pictures. I have looked at the VIN on the block with a magnifying glass and also used a crayon and I can only make out the last 4 numbers of the VIN.

Larry
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GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver X33D80 Z28
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2013, 02:26:37 AM »

Larry, that is a highly unusual color combination; I have a silver VN Z/28 with a 715 interior, but would love to see some pictures of your black on blue car if you're willing to post them!
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 08:38:07 AM »

Here are a few pictures of my Z. Some people will cringe at the sight of the stripes but they were on the car when I bought it and are a reflection of what was popular in the 70's. The stripes get a lot of comments when I have the car out. They are called endless lines. When I bought the car it had 50,197 miles on it. Today it has 57,379. Not a lot of miles in nearly 30 years of ownership. Until recently the only things I have done to it are: Replaced the headers in 1984 with a set of white Blackjack headers. Replaced the tires, added two wheel well moldings that were missing and a trunk mat. I replaced the exhaust system around 1988-89. When I got it had mufflers in front of the rear end with turndowns on them. Made a unreal sound when the rpm's got about 4K.

The car is really solid with only a couple of spots that have been worked on. Namely above the rear wheels and a spot behind the right rear wheel where a lady backed into it when the previous owner had it. Still has most of it's original paint although it is getting thin it spots and the lacquer is getting checked .

At this time, my intent is to keep it is with just doing some cleanup and detailing under the hood plus fixing the rear main seal leak.

Larry
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 08:53:13 AM »

A few more pictures:
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Charley
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 09:20:03 AM »

I love your car. Keep the stripes...
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 10:35:13 AM »

I agree with Charley; you've got a nice car, an unusual color, and I think the small custom feature of the paint in the stripes sets it off, and coordinates with the blue interior quite well...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 03:43:02 PM »

    Is it fairly common to be able to only see a few of the VIN numbers on the rough casting of the block? I have no doubt now that it is the original engine based on the car build date and the casting date of the block.

    Thanks,

Larry

Yes Larry, very common to only see a partial of the stamping. That is one rare color combo so congratulations.
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Chick
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 06:10:23 PM »

Very cool. Someone spent some time on the stripes. I like it!
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1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 07:10:40 PM »

Great car Larry. Thanks for sharing the pic's.
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Rick
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 07:34:56 PM »

Thanks for the nice comments about the car. I enjoy taking it for a spin. It's a blast to drive.

Larry
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2013, 12:12:47 AM »

That car is very cool, I love it! Thanks very much for sharing it with us.
Is the interior all original? Just interested because there was a recent thread regarding grab handle colors in code 715 interior cars, and your handle appears to be black, same as mine.
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2013, 08:39:29 AM »

Yes, the interior is original with the exception of the dash pad. I replaced it a couple of years ago due to the original separating around the edges and curling up. Last fall I added a repro clock to the dash and some new chrome trim to the pedals. I got the original clock with the car but it had a very small piece broken off and I couldn't find anyone who though they could repair it. I also replaced the tach with a repro with the 8K limit. The tach that was in car when I bought it was a 7K limit with the redline starting at 5500. May have been the original from the factory, I don't. The repro tach was an OER brand that in my opinion was poor quality. The tach mounting studs were not "clocked" properly and it wouldn't fit in the dash properly. I ended up modifing the mounting holes slightly to get to get it set correctly. Poor quality control.

Larry
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bcmiller
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2013, 08:52:34 AM »

If you can, post a picture of the original tachometer.

Very nice car. 

There was a 68 Camaro in my area in the early 80s that had a similar paint job. But it was very dark blue.  Stripes were very similar.  I wish I knew what happened to that car.
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2013, 11:21:47 AM »

Here is a picture of the tach that came in the car.

Larry
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2013, 08:40:34 PM »

I don't believe that's the correct tach for a Z28, Larry.   Z28 should 'yellow' at 5500 and red' at 6000.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2013, 05:46:46 PM »

I don't believe that's the correct tach for a Z28, Larry.   Z28 should 'yellow' at 5500 and red' at 6000.
Interesting point Gary; mine 'yellows' at 5700 and 'reds' from 6000 (to 8000, as it's an 04A car).
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2013, 07:02:10 PM »

Thanks ZLP.. Smiley    for correcting my post.    Shows how little attention I paid to the 'yellow'..  *L*..    usually I didn't pay a lot of attention to the 'factory redline' either since I removed the original tach and installed a Sun Super Tach in the dash and had the redline set at 7000 after I rebuilt my engine (in the 70's).   Pictured below is the original tach from my 09C Z28, and it does 'yellow' at 5700 (not 5500) and reds at 6 grand.  I had it rebuilt 30 yrs ago, but haven't operated it since.   I'm planning on reinstalling it and HOPE it works better now than it did before.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
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60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2013, 08:08:59 PM »

Hey Gary, no "correction" intended; I thought it was yet another difference between the early (6k-7k redline) and mid-production (6k-8k redline) tachs......
What (if anything) does a tach needle resting above, or below, zero indicate about the gauge's functional state? I see the one in your picture is below, and mine (removed from the car) rests just above, zero. I'm planning to send it out anyway for rebuild and recalibration, but wondered if that may indicate some internal damage Sad
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2013, 07:00:06 PM »

Larry, did you check the engine when you had it out to verify it has a 302 crankshaft in it?
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 08:22:26 AM »

Larry, did you check the engine when you had it out to verify it has a 302 crankshaft in it?

Yes, I did that in 1984 when my brother and I put a rear main seal in it then. See attached picture.

Larry
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bcmiller
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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2013, 10:11:14 AM »

Well that picture is a flywheel, and it is not specific to the 302.  Had lots of applications.
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2013, 10:31:44 AM »

 The flywheel shows the impression left by the crankshaft flange. The shape shown is normally associated with a 3 inch stroke ,302 crankshaft.

Bob
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2013, 03:32:25 PM »

I follow you!
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2013, 07:41:49 PM »

I tried to post another picture of the crankshaft but the site won't let me.   Huh??

Larry
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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 08:33:40 PM »

Pic is likely over 400 kb, the system won't accept it. Bob is 100% correct - you couldn't have posted a better picture to verify the crank. The Z shaft is the only one produced with that kind of identifying notch. Nice flywheel, though - I wish mine was that pristine.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 09:59:47 PM »

When I first looked at that pic I didn't notice the crank flange impression. Man, it is so obvious what that flywheel was attached to now that is see it. Great pic.
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GaryC

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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 08:04:10 AM »

Well that picture is a flywheel, and it is not specific to the 302.  Had lots of applications.

I think he's pointing out the impression on the flywheel that was left by the crankshaft. The notch is exclusive to the 302 if I'm not mistaken. You can see a picture for reference HERE that John posted in another thread.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 01:23:08 PM »

That notch is NOT, I repeat NOT exclusive to the 302.  Some 283s also had it, as noted in the thread above.  Here is the link.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.0

Larry, I am not trying to cast doubt on it being a 302.  Just playing "devils advocate" in this case.  Somebody has to once in a while.

But I am confused on the redline of the original tach picture you posted.  It should be 6000.
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 01:56:37 PM »

Well excuse me !!!I didn't know a Camaro came with 283 !!
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Daniel  
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 02:18:46 PM »

Camaros didn't come with the 283. But some 283's came with the notched crank

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 08:35:17 PM »

Camaros didn't come with the 283.
Well, actually.... http://www.camaros.org/foreign.shtml#swiss
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Kurt S
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 07:08:15 AM »


Maybe I was 1/2 right??
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2013, 04:18:57 PM »

I think my 69 Z/28 in two numbers behind yours! Smiley

                NOR344839
711 INT     79  B   PNT
06A Build    X33D80

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VIN # 124379N659959

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Rally Green 1969 Z/28 - Under slow resteration
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« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 12:34:17 AM »

Seeing that you're both in OH, I'd guess that the cars were ordered at the same dealer. May have similar options (or may not).
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Kurt S
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 06:50:24 AM »

Several on the Pilots in 1967 were 283 equipped.
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Larry Gibson
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« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 07:05:56 PM »

I have been out of town since last Thursday so I'm catching up on here. Went to the Charlotte Autofair. Been attending for the past 26 years.

I think my 69 Z/28 in two numbers behind yours! Smiley

                NOR344839
711 INT     79  B   PNT
06A Build    X33D80

Cowl Tag Attached

VIN # 124379N659959


Our body numbers are two numbers apart but our VIN #'s are 5,925 #'s apart. Interesting.

Pic is likely over 400 kb, the system won't accept it. Bob is 100% correct - you couldn't have posted a better picture to verify the crank. The Z shaft is the only one produced with that kind of identifying notch. Nice flywheel, though - I wish mine was that pristine.

Regards,
Steve
 

Picture is 42.1kb, I have resized it several times. Going to try and post it again with this reply.

Looks like the can be attached now. Same pic that I tried to post last week, same size too.

As for the tach, not saying it was original to the car, just that it was in the car when I bought it.

Thanks,

Larry

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KurtS
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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 08:03:59 PM »

Several on the Pilots in 1967 were 283 equipped.
Maybe, but no saleable units were made /sold in the US with 283's.

Our body numbers are two numbers apart but our VIN #'s are 5,925 #'s apart. Interesting.
Body #'s in 69 are order confirmation numbers. Meaning the orders were placed right after each other. If a dealer ordered several vehicles at the same time, the numbers may be consecutive.
http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml#69
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Kurt S
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« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2013, 02:13:40 AM »

I have been out of town since last Thursday so I'm catching up on here. Went to the Charlotte Autofair. Been attending for the past 26 years.

I think my 69 Z/28 in two numbers behind yours! Smiley

                NOR344839
711 INT     79  B   PNT
06A Build    X33D80

Cowl Tag Attached

VIN # 124379N659959


Our body numbers are two numbers apart but our VIN #'s are 5,925 #'s apart. Interesting.

Pic is likely over 400 kb, the system won't accept it. Bob is 100% correct - you couldn't have posted a better picture to verify the crank. The Z shaft is the only one produced with that kind of identifying notch. Nice flywheel, though - I wish mine was that pristine.

Regards,
Steve
 

Picture is 42.1kb, I have resized it several times. Going to try and post it again with this reply.

Looks like the can be attached now. Same pic that I tried to post last week, same size too.

As for the tach, not saying it was original to the car, just that it was in the car when I bought it.

Thanks,

Larry



Hey Larry is your car Dusk Blue. My car has a blue interior as well. Love your car. Would love to see more pictures for reference.

Thanks
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Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
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« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2013, 08:50:06 AM »

My car is black. There are a couple of pictures of it on the first page of this thread.

Larry
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