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Author Topic: 69 Z28 Radiator Re-coring ?  (Read 3147 times)
69Z28-RS
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« on: January 24, 2013, 12:22:48 PM »

I just spoke with my radiator shop.   I'm told my heator core is GOOD, but the original '69 Z28 (UH) Radiator core is bad (at the header at the bottom).   I'm told he can replace that with an *identical* core for $300.   I just told him to proceed, but I feel I should inquire here to make sure I'm doing the right thing.  I definitely need to repair this original radiator.   Should I be asking the radiator shop any questions re anything?Huh  manufacturer, type, size, etc?
Thanks in advance for whatever suggestions you might make!
Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
Mike S
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 01:30:17 PM »

  I had my core replaced but reused the original side tanks and mounts. I told them it was for a show car so they gave it the special treatment and had nice looking solder seams. The top square section of the replacement was missing a hole so the shop measured the original one and drilled it in the replacement. It looks exact including the fin density.
  

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
69pace
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »

Make sure they Save the TAG!
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
z28z11
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 05:38:28 PM »

Make sure they Save the TAG!

Better yet, remove the tag before you send it out !
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
z28z11
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »

Speaking of tags, do we have a listing anywhere in the site info of a breakdown of radiator tag info ? Specifically Z11 L48 auto A/C cars - both of my Z's have their original tags, but the Z11 is missing in action (probably from the apparent rework before I bought the car, hence my reference above to "remove it before you send it" post).

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 06:55:12 PM »

Quote
Speaking of tags, do we have a listing anywhere in the site info of a breakdown of radiator tag info ?

HERE you go Steve.

Ed
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 07:29:16 PM »

Beware of buying repro radiator tags that claim they are correct before checking this claim out completely.  The one HBC sells for the 68 Z radiator is incorrectly coded with a non-exisatant code.
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68Z28
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 11:20:07 PM »

I will call the radiator shop back tomorrow, and ask him to remove/save the tag.   he knows it's important to me but I didn't think about taking it off.   Is removing the tag and replacing it after the recoring, something I can easily do?  I've never seen one of these off before.

I will reuse the sidetanks and save/reuse the tag, but the core comes with the 'top' and bottom' braces.   The top brace has 'square' holes in it.   I asked him if the new core would duplicate that exactly and he wasn't sure; nor am I sure how one would 'drill' square holes if none are there in the new core... ?  Smiley

The original radiator is a 'three core', but when I asked the shop, they said the new one would be a three core, OR Equivalent 2 core (ie. larger holes?)...   that bothers me a bit.   Should it?   Is there a preferred source for radiator cores to ensure more exact duplication?

Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
z28z11
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 12:20:44 AM »

Gary,

Tags are easily removed, with a little care. They grip around the edge of the tank, and have a couple of "spurs" that lock them on. If you're careful, they'll usually come right off without damage. Be careful of weakened (rusted) metal - it's pretty thin steel.

I have not had any of my radiators rebuilt as yet, but a fellow Z owner near me had his rebuilt by a shop in Nashville. Swears it's dead nuts, and knowing this owner very well, I'd take his word for it. His Z has been in his family since the early 70's, and he is very particular about it. I suppose it's too late to get the source for you, but according to him, the 3 row core, exact duplicate, is available. I intend on getting mine done at the same source he used (whenI can afford it).

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
z28z11
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 12:34:29 AM »

Quote
Speaking of tags, do we have a listing anywhere in the site info of a breakdown of radiator tag info ?

HERE you go Steve.

Ed


Ed - just saved me a lot of heartburn. I have looked for this info for years, never realized it was right under my fingers. Another instance of why this site is soooo appreciated - and you guys that labor so diligently on it. Incidently, I bought the right GM UR tag (by accident) years ago - this just documented why I bought it !

Thanks and regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 12:37:36 AM »

Gary,

Tags are easily removed, with a little care. They grip around the edge of the tank, and have a couple of "spurs" that lock them on. If you're careful, they'll usually come right off without damage. Be careful of weakened (rusted) metal - it's pretty thin steel.

I have not had any of my radiators rebuilt as yet, but a fellow Z owner near me had his rebuilt by a shop in Nashville. Swears it's dead nuts, and knowing this owner very well, I'd take his word for it. His Z has been in his family since the early 70's, and he is very particular about it. I suppose it's too late to get the source for you, but according to him, the 3 row core, exact duplicate, is available. I intend on getting mine done at the same source he used (whenI can afford it).

Regards,
Steve

Thanks Steve,

If you get the name of the ship or the brand/mfg of the core..  please let me know..  Smiley
Gary
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 12:43:22 AM »

Gary,

Will do. I'll try to get it tomorrow, BTW, look at the link Ed sent me for a good look at the tags and the tabs that hold them on - good pictures (great info !).

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 01:15:28 AM »

I had my original 69 SS 350 radiator re-cored about 3 years ago.  I had it changed from a 2 to 3 core while he was at it.  He put all of the tags and everything back correctly.  It was pricey but I've been very happy with it and glad I did it and not install a new one.  Here is a picture of the main tags and info.  I did a poor job of painting the letters but I could see them better.
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 09:16:33 AM »

I had my radiator restored 30 years ago, before I knew anything about a tag. When I looked for it, it was missing of course. But then later I learned that the radiator was also identified by the side tank part codes and dating code. So, even without the tag, the radiator's originality can be verified.

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 09:44:29 AM »

Gary,

Will do. I'll try to get it tomorrow, BTW, look at the link Ed sent me for a good look at the tags and the tabs that hold them on - good pictures (great info !).

Regards,
Steve

Thanks Steve,   even though I'd verified my radiator *(UH) long ago from the site, in going there today, I noticed some additional information on specs for the radiator and core, and also additional data on fans and clutches.  
Note to Kurt:   The update did not include the *date codes* on both the fan (914087  H69, and 3947772) and fan clutch (EATON CV, and H21J) that my car has.   My car is a 09C production, and most of the parts on the car are dated 'H' for August).   I believe these fan and clutch H codes also represent August '69 in this instance.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 10:29:25 PM »

Gary,

Wish mine was more of a survivor than it is.

The radiator shop in Nashville that did my friend's Z is Tanks and Tabs, 801 Fesslers Lane, Nashville, 800-874-2559. I went on the website for them, you can select the core # for the '69 Z, but it won't give you anything but the number. I'll check them out next week when I'm in town (realize it's too late to help with yours !), but with eventually 4 to do, I'd like to get a handle on a good source.

My '69 Z radiator has never been touched, tag is intact, '68 Z's radiator appears original, a little bumped and bruised, but original tag is there and intact, Z11's tag is being restored, X66's is missing. Have to go the repop route on it -

Regards,
Steve
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
1969 X66 L78 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48
KurtS
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 12:23:42 AM »

Two things
- save the top and bottom plates and have at least the top plate installed on the new core.
- tags can be soldered on sometimes and thus won't come off easy.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 01:35:23 PM »

Two things
- save the top and bottom plates and have at least the top plate installed on the new core.
- tags can be soldered on sometimes and thus won't come off easy.
Kurt,
Thanks for the suggestion to save/reuse the top plate..  that's the one that had the square holes in it.   I'll talk to the shop on Monday!  Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
BillOhio
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 10:53:45 PM »

I had mine record and it turned out nice. Guy had a big book and told him what the car was and it was there. I can't think of the brand name but it was a big company
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1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2013, 12:15:41 PM »

OK..   after a month or so with my radiator at the shop, the shop gave up on finding a 'stock appearing' core that would satisfy me, so I picked up my radiator (I hate having my parts sit around in a shop longer than necessary!).   

My hope is that I can find a proper core for the '69 Z28 Camaro, that the local radiator shop couldn't find.    I will call the 'Tanks and Tabs' shop (suggested by Steve) in Nashville on Monday morning, but I'm interested in ANY manufacturer that you guys might know of who makes replacement cores for our cars?

I took several photos and measured the core size:   
It's a 3 row;  21" wide, 17" tall (not counting the top/bottom braces), and 2" thick.

Note:  The braces top and bottom, which are apparently unique as this was the issue with my local radiator shop, are soldered in almost a continuous way across the top and bottom of the core, and my shop was not confident they could remove and replace them on a new core.   The new cores available to the local shop had a totally different top/bottom brace.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2013, 12:15:38 PM »

...
The radiator shop in Nashville that did my friend's Z is Tanks and Tabs, 801 Fesslers Lane, Nashville, 800-874-2559. I went on the website for them, you can select the core # for the '69 Z, but it won't give you anything but the number. ....

Steve,
Thanks a lot for the tip.   I've been talking to the shop you reference, after searching everywhere I could think of for a new radiator or core that correctly matches the original one (without success until talking with Joe at this shop).   This shop is now a Northern shop so they go by that name.   Joe just told me they will remove the top/bottom rail/braces from my core, clean them, and send them to their core supplier, who will install my original top/bottom rails on the new core and send it back to Northern, who will install the core on my tanks!   I think this is the best *original* solution I've found.    Cost expected to be approximately $360 to about $480, depending on the number of fins/inch (from 12 to 16)?.   The original radiator seems have from 12-14 fins/inch.   Does anyone know the original spec exactly?

But I've got two trips to make to Nashville in addition... to avoid possibility of shipment damage.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
69Z28-RS
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2013, 12:01:07 PM »

OK, I FINALLY have my radiator back, after a long process of finding the radiator shop in Nashville that would reuse my original core rails, then looking for a more local source to do that same thing.  I finally got information from a core manufacturer, that they would *use* my original rails with some restrictions and requirements, but they would have to go thru a commercial radiator shop.  I then found a more local shop (12 miles away) that would work with me; ie. disassemble the radiator, give me back the parts for cleaning, and then order a '69 Camaro core' (from the supplier I identified) - notating that I would send them my original rails, bead blasted and cleaned.   This all took a few weeks to get the radiator shop an account set up with the core manufacturer, and 2 weeks ago I shipped the rails to Dallas; they installed them on a new core and provided back to the radiator shop on Monday of this week.   Yesterday I picked up my original radiator (UH), re-cored with a new core using my original rails.  See pictures attached to this message.   I asked them not to paint the radiator, as I wanted to do it myself!  Smiley     NOW, I need some recommendations from you guys that have restored radiators before to suggest the best means to prep and paint the radiator!   All suggestions appreciated.  My goal is to duplicate how the factory did this as closely as possible!    I intend to clean with lacquer thinner, and prime?  is a special primer required for the combo brass/aluminum parts?  and then paint with a glossy black to match the factory.  Should be finned part of the radiator be primed and painted also?
ALL suggestions appreciated!~
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 12:51:12 PM »

Gary I'll let someone with experience chime in on the paint and primer but I wanted to relay something I learned when I was young. Don't put the paint too heavy on the cooling fins. It don't take much to restrict the heat exchange and not a whole lot more to stop it completely up. I had a friend that painted one with Chassis Black using a paint gun and it ruined a brand new motor. The paint was so thick no air was getting thru. Ran it hot cracked both heads. I'm not running your business just wanted to tell you what I have seen.
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Daniel  
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »

Thanks TModel.. Smiley ..  that's good advice...  and very correct re 'too much paint'.
I am curious whether the fins need any paint at all, of if I should leave them bare..?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 11:07:40 PM »

The guy that has always done my radiator work would put a good coat of paint on everything and the fins basically only got over spray from that. I never saw him directly painting the fins. That engine I mentioned had  about 6 miles on it when they called for me to come get it off the highway.  The ole boy was sick.
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Daniel  
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2013, 11:27:37 PM »

Yeah, a better word for the 'radiator' would be 'convector', since the cooling is predominatly by convection, rather than radiation.  (Actualy there is conduction/convection heat transfer from the hot fluid to the tube/fins, and then convection/radiation from the fins to the air moving thru the fins)..
For radiation cooling, being flat black would be good, but for convection, I'm not sure 'color' makes a difference... so only issue is if the fins (Cu and Al) need any anti corrosive coating?  but I'm concerned about how the Harrison radiator factory did it..  as I want to match their process as closely as possible...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2013, 11:41:04 PM »

I was in the Harrison plant many years ago and.... I don't remember.
But process-wise, they would assemble and paint. Doubt they did anything prep-wise - rad shops just paint and the paint holds up.

Nice work on recoring!
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Kurt S
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2013, 11:44:39 PM »

thanks Kurt, and thanks for your encouragement to use the original rails.   It was a long costly process (cost me close to $450) but it wouldn't have 'looked' right otherwise.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2013, 12:39:37 PM »

I don't recall the specific type of black paint Harrison used, but I DO know they didn't use a primer; the more paint film you get on it, the less efficient the heat transfer is, especially from the tiny fins between the tubes. Skip the primer, and go light on the paint.
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 02:27:08 PM »

Does anyone have a picture of the top and bottom frame rails (69 Z) that not on a radiator?
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Rick
69 RS/Z28
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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 10:35:21 PM »

Attached is a photo of the top and bottom rails of my '69 Z28 Radiator after disassembly, beadblasting, and metal conditioning.  This is as they were sent to the core mfg to install on the new core.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 05:01:33 PM »

Awesome  Gary. Great pic's. Your the best. Were there any problems getting them off the old core?
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 05:07:17 PM »

I took my radiator to a local radiator shop (two of them before I found one who would do what I wanted).. and described what I needed them to do; which was 1) to dis-assemble my radiator for me including removing the top/bottom rails from the core, 2)  I picked up the parts, and cleaned all the parts I was going to reuse (side tanks, tag, brackets, and top and bottom rails); the core company requires that the rails be 'clean metal, no paint or rust., and 3) I shipped off the rails to the core company after first *ordering a '69 repro radiator core, with qualified notes to use the rails I would send them, 4) the 'custom core' was sent to the radiator shop for reinstalling with my tanks/etc.  I held onto all my critical parts until the core was returned and the shop called me (for fear damage might occur if they laid around the shop for a couple of weeks).   Three days later I picked up my redone radiator, minus paint..  because I wanted to paint it myself.

The radiator shop told me that they only had to heat up the rails all the way across to remove from the core... (each little fin is soldered to the rails)..
they said 'no problem' for them, but I have no idea how I would have done it.. Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 07:07:27 PM »

Thanks Gary, I know I will be getting mine done in the future and I appreciate you sharing your story. It's given me some insight on what I need to do.
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Rick
69 RS/Z28
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