Booster check valves

[NoYenko]

I was told at the Camaro Nationals I had the wrong check valve on my brake booster and I am confused on which one I need for an early 69 ( Nov 68 ) built car. In the photo #1 is what I had at the show, I thought it was original. #2 is on my friends 4-69 built car, #3 is what I have seen in some other posts on 68-69 cars. I couldn't find any discussions here so I thought I ask, what have you seen or know to be correct. George

[Camarocards]

This is what I have on my 68 SS L35 which I believe to be original to the car.

Bob

[68camaroz28]

George, your #2 posted would be the correct one.
What Bob has is of course correct.
Oh, and the reason you see so many of the third picture you showed is due to that is what you normally get back on a restored booster.

[68camaroz28]

George, some examples include this one on a Power Booster dated 5/31/68.

Late Dec67 built 68Z with the same valve.

Late 07D 68Z/28


I had posted this pic in my build thread showing what is normally seen in cars and had noted the middle one was correct. Check out post #814 http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584&page=55

[NoYenko]

Guys thanks for the quick response, would anyone have an extra #2 check valve they would want to sell, send me a PM. Thanks. George

[KurtS]

#2 is commonly seen, but again, there were multiple suppliers.

[68camaroz28]

#2 is commonly seen, but again, there were multiple suppliers.

Sure there were Kurt as just about everything else did but what did they look like? I've been looking for two plus years and only have noted the aforementioned #2 on cars that had a high degree of being un-molested. 

[cook_dw]

Not that it matters but I have seen a few like the #3 (less than 5).  #1 never.  Most of the time its been #2.

[KurtS]

I recall also seeing another design. I'll have to look.
#3 is from the 70's, IIRC.

[ZLP955]

Can originals be rebuilt, or are they non-serviceable?

[Camarocards]

Inside of the check valve is a spring and rubber diaphragm. The ribbed cap is glued (epoxied) to the body capturing both the spring and diaphragm. There is no way to remove the ribbed cap without totally destroying it.

You might might, however, get lucky like what happened to me. The ribbed cap on my original valve was not epoxied very well and literally just fell apart. This happened about 25 years ago. I was silly enough to put the body and cap (the spring and diaphragm were long gone) in a zip lock bag and threw it in my parts stash. Fast forward 25 years. When I discovered that all of the reproductions are not manufactured to appear as the original, I purchased a reproduction valve. Using a Drexel tool I carefully cut off the cap on the reproduction valve, removed the spring and rubber diaphragm and then reassembled them into my original valve using super glue to adhere the cap to the body. It now looks correct and functions perfectly.

If you're looking for correctness in your restoration, your best best is to scour the junkyards and swap meets and take the route that I did.

Good luck,

Bob

[8ballracing]

From 1969 10E Z28 Hope it helps with the disscussion

[melav8r]

I recall also seeing another design. I'll have to look.
#3 is from the 70's, IIRC.

Did you ever find a picture of the other design?

[Pacecarjeff]

You can tell those guys at the Camaro Nationals that your check valve is perfectly correct for 1969.
There were like 6 different vendors making those for GM at the time.

Generally I like to see #2 on 67's and 68's as well as lots of different versions for those also. 1969s generally got the #1 in your pictures
There where many additional versions that are completely acceptable for all those model years.....
ie: Flat with diamond in center / Flat with no diamond, Ridged and tapered.

It was all a big transition during that period for that item.
The multiple circles #3 was adopted after 1974/5 or so.  And then there were a few versions of those also --the center circle got deeper.

I Have so many different designs of these things that It is clear that these were produced in HUGE quantities by many vendors simultaneously.

[m22mike]

IMO, #2 is the only assy line correct for 69. I have sourced a handful of the first one at a salvage yard from early/mid 70 cars, and as mentioned 3 is much later.
Mike

[Pacecarjeff]

Handful?  lol  - - - I have shoe boxes full of all of those.  Plenty of those #1s were on the 1969 cars.
And no way can you say that only one version is correct and the only style used.  At least 4 different vendors at that time - - all with slight variations.   Been pulling these from Junk yards for 30 years.  Pretty darn positive about this....   

[68camaroz28]

Handful?  lol  - - - I have shoe boxes full of all of those.  Plenty of those #1s were on the 1969 cars.
And no way can you say that only one version is correct and the only style used.  At least 4 different vendors at that time - - all with slight variations.   Been pulling these from Junk yards for 30 years.  Pretty darn positive about this....   

Great and interesting but can you show some survivors with those #1 valves! I have not seen one survivor with that type valve and agree 100% with Mike.

[z28z11]

What's your opinion on the attached pic ? Looks pretty close to me -

Regards,
Steve

[68camaroz28]

What's your opinion on the attached pic ? Looks pretty close to me -

Regards,
Steve

I agree Steve! I purchased one to review and yes, very close and 100% better then those that come on rebuilds or new repro's.

[Pacecarjeff]

Great and interesting but can you show some survivors with those #1 valves! I have not seen one survivor with that type valve and agree 100% with Mike.

I am not talking about survivors, those are always suspect anyways.  I am talking about cars that were crashed back in the day and have been parked and untouched since then.  Those are the yards I went to for 30 years, and where I grabbed and observed all the different examples.  I have 1000's of pictures, bet if i go through the crates (not digital - Fotomat) I could show you.  One of these days sir....   One of these days... 

[Pacecarjeff]

these are some i just had laying around the house.  The #2 (not shown) is on both my 67 cars. my 69 is wearing a #1.  But many of these others are still correct for those years interchangeably...

Would have had more, but the wife keeps putting the boxes in the garage when i am not looking and i can't find anything anymore.   lol

[BULLITT65]

Great info Jeff. My wife gives me about 24 hours before she clears the kitchen table of my stuff...

[68camaroz28]

these are some i just had laying around the house.  The #2 (not shown) is on both my 67 cars. my 69 is wearing a #1.  But many of these others are still correct for those years interchangeably...

Would have had more, but the wife keeps putting the boxes in the garage when i am not looking and i can't find anything anymore.   lol

Actually looks like a bunch of valves off later 70's and 80's cars to me. Know what you mean about parts as the wife was not too keen about using the kitchen stove and dishwasher for parts. LOL

[Pacecarjeff]

Ones on the Left are all early 60's.  look at the top left - just like #2 but no hole in the center.
The small hose // large Booster hole - are Midyear Corvette Z06. 
67 Camaros could wear any of those others on the left with no questions in my mind.

I have been observing these for some time - was thinking of writing an article for the NCRS one day.
I really am darn positive about these.  - the 80's valves look nothing like any of these. Others as well as the multiple circle style were used into the early 80s)

many vendors made these valves, as well as all the different parts for GM.  Millions of cars- millions of check valves.
lots of versions.  thanks.....

[68camaroz28]

Jeff, its a good topic and one to be aware of but I have tried to research this the last several years and have not once found what your stating on any 67-69 Camaro. For example, go to the CRG's http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?board=20.0 listing of original cars and look to see what valves are noted. Everything I've noted is type #2. Can there be exceptions, I'm sure there are but I'm still looking and it would seem to be rare. Can you show an example of a known survivor with that #1 or #3 valve?

[KurtS]

I'll venture that different plants used different sources. So a 69 Camaro might be only a couple of versions, where as a full-size (with all those different plants) could have many suppliers / versions.

[Pacecarjeff]

Which is exactly what i am saying. Both plants produced other models along side the Camaros.
Even a plant as small as St. Louis which only produced 1 model -- the Corvette. has variations of many items (including check valves)

To say or even believe that every 1st Gen Camaro only used one style check valve is really inconceivable.
But I know what I have seen, I am gonna check my boosters when I have time, I have 20 or so 9204s and 3 or 4 8515s hidden somewhere around the shop. They are all unrestored in "as found" condition - - don't remember if I left the valves and hoses in them or not.

I have a huge bin full of hoses tons of valves attached there - - will look for paper tags to ID them. 
been a little cooler here lately, was too hot up on my 2nd floor to go digging.

[KurtS]

Which is exactly what i am saying. Both plants produced other models along side the Camaros.

Actually, no. Norwood only produced the Camaro in 67-69 with the Firebird added later in 69.

Attached to original boosters would count.

[Pacecarjeff]

No Luck
At one point I was gonna restore all of the boosters and send them on their way.  so....,
Unfortunately I pulled all the check valves, pipes, and hoses - put them in a separate bin.  I never took the manifold vacuum ports either. 

Sold off 100's of the various check valves over the years, did not leave the paper tags on them.   
Still have a ton - -found 5 or 6 of the #2 right on top.

I have the #1 on my 69 Z11 - it came like that 20 years ago on the original booster.
That's kinda why I don't trust survivor cars so much - If the new owner believed (wrongly) - that his check valve or other part was not the one
everyone expected to see, he would just change it to the desired flavor at the time.

Like the dipsticks, oil plugs, and many other items - the believed "typical norm" seems to change from time to time - even though all versions are technically correct.

I did take 1000s of pictures in the yards. We traveled to many remote areas, most of the pics are buddies bent over picking, goofing off, or HUGE fields of cars. Lots of pics of really rare cars that just weren't salvageable (at the time) OMG  lol ?

So I guess I can't offer any forensic evidence at this time.

But I can tell you that I have seen, and provided parts for -- many Nationally Certified Survivor cars where parts had been changed in the past. - I will never tell..  lol

[melav8r]

"...I have 20 or so 9204s and 3 or 4 8515s hidden somewhere around the shop."

Jeff, would you happen to have a 9820 booster?

[67CruiseMaster]

Jeff I'm looking for an 8515 around December or early January date. You heppen to have one?

Scot