Amazing 69 Z/28 Survivor

[68camaroz28]

This is a true survivor and the best one I've been personally involved with but first a little history on this incredible Camaro. This NOR built late (09D) November, 1969 Hugger Orange Z/28 with black Houndstooth was purchased new in 1969 at Emrich Chevrolet in Manchester, PA. A good friend of mine purchased the Z/28 from that original owner and I just had the good fortune of tagging along and assisting with documenting both the change in ownership and its originality.  The car has 21,672 original miles and was stored the last 19 plus years in a corner of a downstairs basement under the house. One of two reasons this car is so special IMHO is the car was garaged from day one, and the owner had a 2nd car he used for daily transportation. By the way, he still has that 2nd car, a 1962 Nova.  


Inside the door resides a tag stating an oil/lubricant change took place May 11, 1978 with 21, 229 miles. And a receipt verified the same information. Gee, just 443 miles in almost 36 years.


Here the Z/28 is seeing daylight for the first time in over 19 years. Was car covered in the corner stall but still dusty and the tires looked dingy but incredible how it still shined when it finally hit the Sun.

Next up pictures of when it came to its new home!

[68camaroz28]

I had to take this picture of the cars reflection at the back of the trailer. I think it's happy and glowing with the new home. LOL.


Some more overall outside pictures of the car to appreciate its survivor status.

[68camaroz28]

Next up some interesting detail items like the original battery. This is the Y77 battery that came in the 09D (sept. 69) Z/28 from new. It has the delco energizer script but in black and has a label stating "recommend replacement with energizer Y77".


The original Y77 battery is sitting in the Delco box of a replacement Delco Energizer the owner purchased in December, 1974. It has the yellow script but not sticker stating "recommend replacement with energizer Y77".  Yep, believe it or not the owner had both the first original Y77 battery and the Y77 replacement.

[6667ss138]

Wow Chick, that is amazing. What a find. Thanks for posting! More detailed pictures when and if you can
Thanks again, you were adding as I was typing.

[68camaroz28]

Wow Chick, that is amazing. What a find. Thanks for posting! More detailed pictures when and if you can
Thanks again, you were adding as I was typing.

Yep lots to come and in the future as well so this is just what was easy up top.
And how many cars have all five original tires? Well this one does! The tires on the car in the pictures are later service replacements but here are some pics of the original tires.



The Tire jack mast in yellow zinc and date code!


One of the five YH rally wheels dated August 4, 1969.

[jims69]

Awesome car, truly something special.

Jim

[68camaroz28]

Awesome car, truly something special.

Jim

Jim you are 100% correct! There just ARE not too many in this category. More to come!
The trunk area is impressive! Left side shock tower cap:



Pulled the trunk mat up!

Looks like it was just installed!

Trunk lid screws as they came from the factory!

Jacking Instructions:

[68camaroz28]

Bottom of the air cleaner and air cleaner base hose and elbow!


When Emrich Chevrolet checked the anti-freeze and marked the fan shroud.

Lots of original paperwork including the POP, owners manual & bag, spare key envelope, etc.

[69Z28-RS]

A beautiful survivor for sure..    I hope the new owner plans to enter it and get it judged in the survivor class soon..  maybe in June??

[TooManyReels]

Chick, very, very nice looking pictures. Exciting to see an original car. Thanks for sharing.

TMR..

[ko-lek-tor]

Oh gosh Chick, that is just incredible! To say the least. That is a car you would never get tired of just studying details and documenting. Thanks for sharing.

[68camaroz28]

A beautiful survivor for sure..    I hope the new owner plans to enter it and get it judged in the survivor class soon..  maybe in June??

For sure it would not be this June due to other commitments Gary! Knew you would like the COLOR.

[68camaroz28]

Has both original T3 headlight lamps! No cracks or messed up grille that I can note.


Interior just needs a little loving care and it will look new. Original shifter Ball laying on console!

[68camaroz28]

Some chalk writing under the paint (cowl area)!

RC-15 Radiator Cap

Smog equipment and hardware never removed! That is rare!

Radiator Tag!

Correct washer bottle cap and power booster valve!



That's all for now but more to come! I was like a little kid going over this CAMARO.......

[BULLITT65]

lets see some pics of the motor!!

(thanks Chick)

[ko-lek-tor]

I can't believe that the plating is still on the booster and MC cap. That is incredible! What a find!

[BULLITT65]

Very nice. Other than the tires, did anything else ever get switched off the car? What are the owners plans for it?

[6667ss138]

I just keep going over and over these pictures. Can't wait for more, especially more under the hood. This being a later build date car is going to help me a lot when it comes time to go through the factory correct frame off restoration process with my 07A car. You are the man Chick!

[69Z28-RS]

A beautiful survivor for sure..    I hope the new owner plans to enter it and get it judged in the survivor class soon..  maybe in June??

For sure it would not be this June due to other commitments Gary! Knew you would like the COLOR.

I like everything about it...

[ZLP955]

What a fantastic car! Thanks for sharing it Chick. If you ever get an opportunity, I'd love to see a picture of the rear stripe overspray down into the trunk weatherstrip area, so many 'restored' cars have this area neatly masked off and the ends of the stripes are finished far too abruptly.

[Azure1969Z/28]

Survivor? It didn't even survive the factory paint line. It came out H.O. (lol lust kidding it is astounding !!!)

[NoYenko]

Chick can't thank you enough for the great story and pictures. Really an amazing survivor. Can't wait to see more. Did the original owner ever start it in the last 19 years?

[janobyte]

Beautiful car. Everything about it is truly amazing. What stands out is it just wasn't " toyed" with. Per #1 owner "mods" were made to mine in the parking lot at the dealer. ( pollution control removed, manifolds plugged) By 69 cowl hood was added along with 67 hideaways and RS lower valiance, rear tail lights. Car was always babied, never seen snow ,garage kept. Fact is never was in the rain as of 76. ( I honestly don't know if the wipers work). I have all 5 OE tires ,but 4 were "abused" Even the exhaust which was taken off soon after delivery has surface rust. And it has always been attic stored. 36K on the odometer.

With all that it was sort of overly loved to the point paint was wore off in some areas from so much waxing. Any dings happened in the garage. Passenger side only, , as driver's side usually was against the wall. Hoses ,plug wires long gone.Plenty of semi-gloss black under hood and underneath. Small stone chips on the lower parts of the doors. But believe me ,I'm not complaining.

That 69 Z is truly something special. By the pics, presents as only a few years old. Sure that car wasn't abducted and recently beamed back down ? LOL!! Wonderful post and looking forward to future readings. thanks.

[Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28]

Incredible car, thank you for the pictures.

[JKZ27]

Gee-Wizz! Thanks Chick.
Hey, can you ask the owner how much $ to go for a ride? I've never ridden in a 302 Z  . That may certainly be the closest I could get to living a day in 1969.

Happy Easter!!

[janobyte]

How did his jacking instructions not yellow ? No "spider web" cracking in the stripes ? Top edge of the spoiler flawless. Once again all I can say is wow. I can see were you would be excited going over that car in person.

[69Z28-RS]

How did his jacking instructions not yellow ? No "spider web" cracking in the stripes ? Top edge of the spoiler flawless. Once again all I can say is wow. I can see were you would be excited going over that car in person.

I agree with Janobyte... the entire car is outstandingly preserved, but the 'freshness' of the jacking instructions didn't look *realistic* to me...  Is there some chance that sheet was replaced over the years??  I'd think like Janobyte, it would be yellowed or stained.. or something..  even if the trunk remained closed all these years (evidenced by the slight 'rust color' stains at places in the trunk floor, etc)..?

[janobyte]

By no means am I questioning, just adoring. Mine yellowed and pulled away around the edges. Keep in mind the car did do a little time in the burnout box. I had the underneath of the deck lid and hinges  left untouched. It's flawless and retains the jack , and small air shock? stickers. No surface rust in my trunk. Those pesky mildew spots in the interior look familiar from leaving the windows up year after year. I found fogging it with Lysol (fresh linen scent !) a few times a year prevented it. I would imagine some sort of moisture wick might also do the trick.

[janobyte]

The car basically sat entombed , even wiping the interior down on occasion--they would reappear. And still the flaws over the years.

[Steve Shauger]

Nothing looks out of place, just a stunningly well preserved car. Congrats to the new owner and another car that can be used as a benchmark. Look forward to examining the car...

[z28z11]

Survivor? It didn't even survive the factory paint line. It came out H.O. (lol lust kidding it is astounding !!!)

I agree - must be a conspiracy.

Unreal find -

[Mike S]

In regards to the jacking instructions decal, the thing that caught my eye immediately was the shrinkage line along the top edge (due to file size limit I had to shrink this down a lot so it is harder to see the line). Paper will shrink with age depending on humidity (one factor) and is also one cause for the bubbles.
This leads me to believe that the sticker on the 69 is possibly original. Most people don't know about shrinkage lines and usually a new sticker will cover it up because it is larger (no shrinkage).
I put a side-side comparison of my 67 04B LOS with original trunk decal and this 69 09D NOR. You can see the shrinkage lines on both though the 69 I can only make out the top line. Plus, don't forget a camera white balance will impact the color hue accuracy quite a bit especially with shades (white and blacks). Most point and shoot cameras have inaccurate white balances so it may be a fine line between light yellow and white when viewed.

Mike

[janobyte]

I said, alien abduction, somewhere they are cloning the ultimate vehicle as we speak

Got to add ,nice to see this car is in good hands. Hope it doesn't hit the red carpet and get crated up overseas. This one needs to be on display for all who know about them to enjoy. Captures a time long gone by.

[maroman]

I was lucky enough to ride in a friend's '69 Z when it was one day old. This wouldn't be much different. fabulous find!!

[BULLITT65]

Steve, I bet you can't wait to have it at your show! What a nice example of a car that happen to benefit from just the right circumstances.
It is funny to me how many people set out to preserve a car back in the day, and how only a small handful actually came out the other side in nice condition. I remember a few years back there was a raffle for a like 50's plymouth/chrysler that was entombed when brand new in a cinderblock mausoleum, and then at the 50 year anniversary of the town they were going to announce the winner who would have entered the raffle when the car was locked away new. Well long story short, the cinder block tomb only trapped moisture inside and the car that was suppose to have been  well preserved looked like it had been buried in a river.

[z28z11]

Steve, I bet you can't wait to have it at your show! What a nice example of a car that happen to benefit from just the right circumstances.
It is funny to me how many people set out to preserve a car back in the day, and how only a small handful actually came out the other side in nice condition. I remember a few years back there was a raffle for a like 50's plymouth/chrysler that was entombed when brand new in a cinderblock mausoleum, and then at the 50 year anniversary of the town they were going to announce the winner who would have entered the raffle when the car was locked away new. Well long story short, the cinder block tomb only trapped moisture inside and the car that was suppose to have been  well preserved looked like it had been buried in a river.

I remember that one - greatly disappointed a lot of people, including me. I can't remember what magazine it was featured in (or at least showed the pics of the rusted hulk).

[69Z28-RS]

Steve, I bet you can't wait to have it at your show! What a nice example of a car that happen to benefit from just the right circumstances.
It is funny to me how many people set out to preserve a car back in the day, and how only a small handful actually came out the other side in nice condition. I remember a few years back there was a raffle for a like 50's plymouth/chrysler that was entombed when brand new in a cinderblock mausoleum, and then at the 50 year anniversary of the town they were going to announce the winner who would have entered the raffle when the car was locked away new. Well long story short, the cinder block tomb only trapped moisture inside and the car that was suppose to have been  well preserved looked like it had been buried in a river.

I remember that one - greatly disappointed a lot of people, including me. I can't remember what magazine it was featured in (or at least showed the pics of the rusted hulk).

The story, and the 'before and after' photos were everywhere back when they opened up the *underground* vault (which had filled with water and mud over the 50 yrs it was 'buried')..  There was a recent revisit of the story by Hemmings, in which it said a lot of money had been spent attempting to clean the car, but that it was basically scrap .. even the frame was rusted down and the sheet metal was like foil...      (Another fine example of what our 'politicians' can do for us..  ie.  Tulsa city leaders were responsible for the 'time vault'...

[68camaroz28]

What a fantastic car! Thanks for sharing it Chick. If you ever get an opportunity, I'd love to see a picture of the rear stripe overspray down into the trunk weatherstrip area, so many 'restored' cars have this area neatly masked off and the ends of the stripes are finished far too abruptly.

Here you go Tim! These are what I'd say were pretty nice work from the factory. Steve has looked at many more than me but both the front and rear are fairly neat.
This serve what you asked for?




And a little side bonus, the orange colored crayon mark on the trunk W/S.  Located 2/3 of the length in from the left side top section or close to the inside of the right side racing stripe.

[68camaroz28]

In regards to the jacking instructions decal, the thing that caught my eye immediately was the shrinkage line along the top edge (due to file size limit I had to shrink this down a lot so it is harder to see the line). Paper will shrink with age depending on humidity (one factor) and is also one cause for the bubbles.
This leads me to believe that the sticker on the 69 is possibly original. Most people don't know about shrinkage lines and usually a new sticker will cover it up because it is larger (no shrinkage).
I put a side-side comparison of my 67 04B LOS with original trunk decal and this 69 09D NOR. You can see the shrinkage lines on both though the 69 I can only make out the top line. Plus, don't forget a camera white balance will impact the color hue accuracy quite a bit especially with shades (white and blacks). Most point and shoot cameras have inaccurate white balances so it may be a fine line between light yellow and white when viewed.

Mike

Good observation Mike! Let me explain to everyone just how the car was stored which can explain IMO just how and why the car stayed as nice as it did. This car was stored for most of its life not just in a garage but in the full basement of a house where the furnace and water heater resided. Its just different with that type of storage vs. a attached garage not insulated, etc... Wish all of you could see just how incredible this car is. I told my friend and his wife, there's only one thing better than this and when they said what, I came back with "If I owned it!" LOL
Appreciate all the thank you notes but the new owner deserves them as well as he wanted to share this survivor and I'm just assisting.  And liking it also!   Give me time but will work to answer your questions.

[68camaroz28]

Very nice. Other than the tires, did anything else ever get switched off the car? What are the owners plans for it?

Not much was off the car and he added just about zero. Only thing I noted added was a fuel filter but the rubber line is original and someone (we think the dealership) just pulled the line off the hard line, stuck it on the end of the original rubber fuel line, added a piece of rubber line to other end of the filter and stuck it back on the 3/8" metal line. Super easy to remove and everything is original. "What are the owners plans for it?" It's found a new home for a very long time!

[68camaroz28]

Chick can't thank you enough for the great story and pictures. Really an amazing survivor. Can't wait to see more. Did the original owner ever start it in the last 19 years?

Hi George, no, the owner did not start the car up. Reason, since it was stored in the basement under the house he said if he started it, it stuck up the house with fumes which I can understand.  Remember back in the day when I sprayed paint in the attached garage and the fumes came in. Whew, my dear wife was not a happy camper. Oh the memories! OK, back to this car! We know the old gas will have to be removed and some before firing preparation. The oil on the dipstick looked almost new......

[68camaroz28]

How did his jacking instructions not yellow ? No "spider web" cracking in the stripes ? Top edge of the spoiler flawless. Once again all I can say is wow. I can see were you would be excited going over that car in person.

Yep, its been a joy and wish all of you could participate in looking it over as we have and will continue. Guess we will try to be your eyes.......

[ko-lek-tor]

How did his jacking instructions not yellow ? No "spider web" cracking in the stripes ? Top edge of the spoiler flawless. Once again all I can say is wow. I can see were you would be excited going over that car in person.

Yep, its been a joy and wish all of you could participate in looking it over as we have and will continue. Guess we will try to be your eyes.......

Chick, I am thinking that you could provide a series, say each week (later to be offered on a DVD for one's library) that could highlight components and areas of the car. This would be an incredible restoration tool and valued documentation. How many pristine examples of 69 Z's exist? JohnZ's car and that one with, like, 2000 miles on it?

[cam69aro]

Chick, are the tags on the coil springs and rear leafs still intact ? mine had only one coil spring tag but was so badly deteriorated I couldn't read it and it was too far gone to even make out. What a nice find, would be a nice car for Jerry M to look at for posterity

[68camaroz28]

Chick, are the tags on the coil springs and rear leafs still intact ? mine had only one coil spring tag but was so badly deteriorated I couldn't read it and it was too far gone to even make out. What a nice find, would be a nice car for Jerry M to look at for posterity

Eldon, have spent very little time looking underneath except for general inspection so cannot answer at this time but can when its on the lift.

[ZLP955]

Chick, thank you very much for posting the rear stripe pictures! It does seem to be a neater masking job along the bottom edge than perhaps I expected, but the way the paint coverage reduces further into the weatherstrip channel on the pinstripe (your first picture) is exactly what I was looking for; perhaps by this late stage of NOR production, they had refined the optimum masking technique.
Love that car!

[MyRed67]

Awesome car, thanks for sharing.  This can be very helpful to many.

[asm69]

great information. Is the hurst T-hanlde also original to the car,or was it installed by dealer or owner?

[Steve Shauger]

great information. Is the hurst T-hanlde also original to the car,or was it installed by dealer or owner?

Camaros were never originally equipped with a hurst T-handle. They had a chrome ball
on console equipped cars, and black shifter ball with shift pattern on cars without a console.

[Edgemontvillage]

Nice work Chick, would love to see more detailed photos of this important find (and who better to take them!).  Thought it was interesting to see the cowl air cleaner is a ridged bottom version.  There has been much debate if any of the ridged bottom actually made it into late production cars (vs service part) or if they were all flat bottomed.  I think this benchmark car provides some clarity. 

[Azure1969Z/28]

Looks like the original chrome shift ball sitting on the console.

[68camaroz28]

Nice work Chick, would love to see more detailed photos of this important find (and who better to take them!).  Thought it was interesting to see the cowl air cleaner is a ridged bottom version.  There has been much debate if any of the ridged bottom actually made it into late production cars (vs service part) or if they were all flat bottomed.  I think this benchmark car provides some clarity. 

Agree 100% except for the "who better to take them"...... Car is a true benchmark IMHO....

[68camaroz28]

Looks like the original chrome shift ball sitting on the console.

Yep, as I had mentioned in an earlier post the original shifter ball was there. It will be put back on!
OK, have some engine pics to post soon!

[BillOhio]

Gorgeous car. What a neat deal to get to be a part of Chick

[69Z28-RS]

Nice work Chick, would love to see more detailed photos of this important find (and who better to take them!).  Thought it was interesting to see the cowl air cleaner is a ridged bottom version.  There has been much debate if any of the ridged bottom actually made it into late production cars (vs service part) or if they were all flat bottomed.  I think this benchmark c

Unless I've missed some proof that the cowl induction system was factory original on this car, that is an assumption re the 'ridged bottom'...  Just as the owner installed the Hurst shifter knob, he might have also installed the hood..  unless we have *proof* that it was factory original?   I haven't yet seen such proof...?

[rszmjt]

Nice work Chick, would love to see more detailed photos of this important find (and who better to take them!).  Thought it was interesting to see the cowl air cleaner is a ridged bottom version.  There has been much debate if any of the ridged bottom actually made it into late production cars (vs service part) or if they were all flat bottomed.  I think this benchmark

Unless I've missed some proof that the cowl induction system was factory original on this car, that is an assumption re the 'ridged bottom'...  Just as the owner installed the Hurst shifter knob, he might have also installed the hood..  unless we have *proof* that it was factory original?   I haven't yet seen such proof...?

If the hood has a production date stamped in the rear driver side , then chances are it's a ZL2 car. I believe it to be real, Nice looking car. Kudos to your friend Chick!

[BULLITT65]

I saw the pop, but was there any dealer invoice or any other docs that might show the factory options on this car?

[68camaroz28]

Nice work Chick, would love to see more detailed photos of this important find (and who better to take them!).  Thought it was interesting to see the cowl air cleaner is a ridged bottom version.  There has been much debate if any of the ridged bottom actually made it into late production cars (vs service part) or if they were all flat bottomed.  I think this benchmark c

Unless I've missed some proof that the cowl induction system was factory original on this car, that is an assumption re the 'ridged bottom'...  Just as the owner installed the Hurst shifter knob, he might have also installed the hood..  unless we have *proof* that it was factory original?   I haven't yet seen such proof...?

I really debated whether or not to even comment on your response Gary and will only state not sure how a shift knob change relates to a hood/air cleaner change but it does relate to how the owner kept everything. Think about it, he kept the original shift knob, battery & even the 2nd one, all 5 tires, etc. Major items like the smog set up never removed, same owner since new, etc.. The last thing I want to get into is debating about "he might have also installed the hood.. unless we have proof that it was factory original?" Have a great day!

[69Z28-RS]

Chick,  it's a GREAT car..  there's absolutely no doubt!  I'm sorry you took offense to my post, but it had nothing to do with the quality of the car!  The fact that the owner changed the shift knob only points out that HE like 99% of Z28 owners was open minded about putting something he liked better on the car?   Did the owner special order the car?  Did he buy it off the lot?  Is there original sales paperwork?  Is there a date code on the hood?   If any of this has been posted previously, then I apologize for I hadn't seen it...

The ONLY point to my post was that Edgemont made a conclusion about a 'ridged bottom' aircleaner (which there HAS been a tremendous amount of debate over for years) based on it being on this super car, WITHOUT a single previous post being made about the hood or it's originality to the car!  that's it.   As rgt said, if the hood has the date code on it consistent with the car, and nothing else is 'out of place' re the ZL2 option, then I too would agree that the air cleaner is LIKELY the original one for that car...    that's it.

MY Only point was that he drew a conclusion based on no evidence at all so far....

[Steve Shauger]

Chick I was going to comment on that as well. How you can relate a shift knob change to a hood replacement is well beyond a real stretch. (BTW as noted the original shift knob was clearly visible in the photo). The orig owner kept just about every part he ever replaced including the original tires. Now look at the facts presented from the pictures regarding the hood; orig hood insulation, original solenoid(assembly line correct), cowl wiring looks original with correct strain reliefs. From what I can see the entire car looks like a time capsule. Also I have documented several late car with the ridged bottom cowl air cleaner so to me there is no debate. Remember the 70 Chevelle SS was also in production at the time this car was produced and could be optioned with the same air cleaner. I believe all 70 chevelles that were equipped with cowm air cleaner have been documented with the ridged bottom.

To throw far fetched theories out there without any evidence or research serves no purpose and does a disservice to this benchmark car. The more I see of this car, the more excited I am to have an opportunity to Vintage Certify it in the future. The car has a great caretaker who will share the car with all of us. A lot of lessens can be learned from the pictures provided.

[6667ss138]

Chick, I'm not sure if anyone else here has asked you to do this yet but please give a big THANK YOU! to your friend (the new lucky owner) for his support in allowing you to share this unbelievable find with us here on CRG. Very excited to see more picture and details as your time allows.
Have a good day!
Len H.

[luv2sixty9]

Chick,
He finally got it! Good for him and a nice one at that. Can you answer me the following three questions or I can notify him personally and view the car if need be.
1. Are the door strikers allen head or torx
2. Does it have the higher RPM Tach or standard 6-8 Tach
3. The exhaust bracket on the left frame rail. Does it have the two knotches "one on the top and one on the bottom" or does it go straight across. Thanxs Dave

[janobyte]

Yup, as stated above, #1 and #2 owner also kept everything they took off the Z. When #1 got in touch with me about 6 years ago, he had JUST gotten rid of the pollution control set up, which had been up in his parent's garage from around May/June 68.He actually apologized ,but his intentions were to buy the car back, so he was being nice.

You can safely deduce : Why would someone keep old tires and a battery while getting rid of a hood

I hate to admit, but shy of the shocks and battery ,the few items missing for this one has been my own fault over the years due to moves, storage when building the house ,parts "intermingling" etc..and how many really gave much thought to keeping old hoses, belts ,plugs etc...at the time I got it, was not even considered a classic. LOL.

IMO this HO 69 should define survivor--beautiful, well cared for, un-molested. No state of disrepair what so ever. I wouldn't even take a hose to the body--hand wash ,Simple green to the engine...period.

Even though my car (and some may gasp ) retained over 90 % of it's original paint ,presented well--- you can argue it should not have been touched ,I thought it needed it, my bar's set high and I own it.

Stunning is that 69,many an article should be written about it.

[68camaroz28]

Chick, I'm not sure if anyone else here has asked you to do this yet but please give a big THANK YOU! to your friend (the new lucky owner) for his support in allowing you to share this unbelievable find with us here on CRG. Very excited to see more picture and details as your time allows.
Have a good day!
Len H.

Will do Len and know he will appreciate that. Thanks!

[68camaroz28]

Chick,
He finally got it! Good for him and a nice one at that. Can you answer me the following three questions or I can notify him personally and view the car if need be.
1. Are the door strikers allen head or torx
2. Does it have the higher RPM Tach or standard 6-8 Tach
3. The exhaust bracket on the left frame rail. Does it have the two knotches "one on the top and one on the bottom" or does it go straight across. Thanxs Dave

Not sure Dave on your question 1 & 3 but the tach was the std. 6-8 version. Will check out the other stuff when we go over the car some more which will be a little while since Carlisle is here.

[68camaroz28]

OK, I promised some engine pics so here you go!


Silver looking paint on lift hook and manifold bolts appear to be phosphate (show no signs of clear zinc)





A-arm shaft and washer have remnants of black paint.



Bellhousing is partially painted orange.

[BULLITT65]

I can't tell in the pic, but does this car have the bracket that holds the vacuum line?

[68camaroz28]

I can't tell in the pic, but does this car have the bracket that holds the vacuum line?

Yes it does as we looked for that when we had the air cleaner off.

[TooManyReels]

Chick, I noticed that this car had the left side motor restraint cable assembly installed. You see them on some cars, but not all...I guess these were some of the first things to be removed when they got in the way.

TMR...

[68camaroz28]

Chick, I noticed that this car had the left side motor restraint cable assembly installed. You see them on some cars, but not all...I guess these were some of the first things to be removed when they got in the way.

TMR...

Eddie I believe that was a major recall in 1971 and some remained and many were taken off. Some maybe were taken off due to having mount changes also. Hard to believe back then the recall ID Number 7IV235000 impacted over 6 and a half million cars.

[ZLP955]

Awesome! May have missed it, but does this late-build car have the carb stud fuel line clip/bracket?

[rszmjt]

Chick, Does it have the 4 clip trim rings? or the Serated/finger type?

[68camaroz28]

Awesome! May have missed it, but does this late-build car have the carb stud fuel line clip/bracket?

Tim, I'm fairly certain it did not as I have no recollection of seeing it and would think I would have noticed if it was there but will need to look next time just to make sure 100%.

[68camaroz28]

Chick, Does it have the 4 clip trim rings? or the Serated/finger type?

I looked at the two on the left side of the car Mike and they both were the serrated finger type.

[zman1969]

Love this stuff, really liking the engine detail shots please keep em coming!

[janobyte]

Good timing for me seeing as the car isn't shot yet. Under hood detail as I remember...black. And the details my paint guy is looking for : overspray and stripes into the upper valiance.

[rszmjt]

Chick, Does it have the 4 clip trim rings? or the Serrated/finger type?

I looked at the two on the left side of the car Mike and they both were the serrated finger type.

Thanks Chick, That goes along with the possability of later production finger type replacing the 4 clip style. My 06A has clips BTW.

Looking at the picture of the engine compartment you can see the original GM Decal on the side of the air cleaner, I'm pretty sure it is original, a buddy has a 20,000 mile 10B 69 Z28 and it has the cowl air cleaner with the grooved or ridged bottom.

No doubt in my mind it is a original ZL2 car, as the cowl solenoid and wiring are exactly the same as my car.

Thanks for posting the pictures, what a Time Capsule!!!!

[copo]

Nice car, Does the battery hold down clamp have the 2 dimples on the top lip.

[68camaroz28]

Nice car, Does the battery hold down clamp have the 2 dimples on the top lip.

All original battery hold down clamps I believe to had the two dimples and yes this Z/28 has the that type of two dimple battery hold down clamp. Actually a hard item to locate! This is one of mine but the type of two dimple clamp we are referring to.

[BillOhio]

I vote chick makes us a cd! Thanks for the pictures

[cam69aro]

I second the motion, I`ll even buy him a spindle of 100 for us

[69Z28freak]

Wow! Awesome find and unreal car. Thanks for sharing Chick. One of the finest examples I have seen to date.

[Steve Shauger]

Chick,
He finally got it! Good for him and a nice one at that. Can you answer me the following three questions or I can notify him personally and view the car if need be.
1. Are the door strikers allen head or torx
2. Does it have the higher RPM Tach or standard 6-8 Tach
3. The exhaust bracket on the left frame rail. Does it have the two knotches "one on the top and one on the bottom" or does it go straight across. Thanxs Dave

Dave, my 9a has the torx head strikers and the frame rail exhaust bracket has no notches. My tach is an anomaly, as its a 6-7 (l78 tach) . I haven't a clue why that is, and will check for an inspection date.

[luv2sixty9]

Thanxs Steve for the response. Dave

[zman1969]

any more engine pics- carb? underneath? looks like Charley's 70z with little more wear and tear

[68camaroz28]

any more engine pics- carb? underneath? looks like Charley's 70z with little more wear and tear

Yea, Charley's 70Z was incredible with the original spark plugs, oil filter, etc...... No, no more pics at this moment as the car is put away as other commitments are needed to be completed but hopefully in the future we can share more.
I would like to share this as it coincides with some questions brought up earlier in this thread concerning the ridged air cleaner base. Recently I reviewed with a good friend a late 10C local Ammon R Smith car and the owner has the original window sticker. His air cleaner base has the ridge. Know several have documented this but wanted to share as well. I did not want to show the portion of the window sticker with the vin but you can see the options and cost at that point. Wish I could buy them for that now. The car is an excellent example with a re-paint many moons ago and just to know is NOT for sale. We were just checking things out.
[/URL
[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Survivors/ScottsZ28_zps3f6b8dd6.jpg.html]

[iceman]

               
                     looking at pictures of amazing 69 z/28 surviver (wow) _ I see lifting lugs (painted silver) and safety cables_
     were these factory installed or dealer on a 9a car_also the left spark plug wire tower with 2 bends was this on all 69 z/28
     or just those with a cowl air cleaner.
      I have a 9a_never been out of family_went thru. brier patch in early years_finnaly getting it put back together_
      have original sales slip 4149.20 dollars. need to gather up some lost items.



                                                                       iceman
                                                                       looking foward to more pictures of amazing z/28 what a find.

[JohnZ]

               
                     looking at pictures of amazing 69 z/28 surviver (wow) _ I see lifting lugs (painted silver) and safety cables_
     were these factory installed or dealer on a 9a car

The motormount recall was announced in March, 1972, 2-1/2 years after 1st-Gen production had stopped; the restraint cables were dealer-installled as part of the recall fix.

[iceman]

                     thanks john.
                       
                                      I guess if it was a recall it wouldnt be original.
                                       any info on lifting lugs and left wire tower would appreciate.
                                       
                                                                                69 olympic gold z
                                                                                 iceman

[68camaroz28]

                     thanks john.
                       
                                      I guess if it was a recall it wouldnt be original.
                                       any info on lifting lugs and left wire tower would appreciate.
                                       
                                                                                69 olympic gold z
                                                                                 iceman

The lifting lugs as you call them were installed at the factory and yes, the rear spark plug tower does have two bends.  Sounds like you have a neat car iceman!

[iceman]

             

                                   thanks Chick

                                                                     iceman

[68camaroz28]

Thought I'd add a few more pictures of discoveries on the car that were not shown prior. The sub-frame has a stenciled date of September 1969 along with a crayon mark.


The gas line support:


The console oil line fitting off the rear of the block:


Vac hose for distributor going into carb has white stripe:


Pictures of how the white was painted in the cowl area:

[Bryan302]

Chick, Thank you for those new photo's.  The carb studs were an item that I've been wanting to compare from this car.  The studs with the undercut at the top seem to be original across the board and very very hard to find.  Some of the more advanced vendors do not have these studs.  I have these same studs in my intake, and know of a few more cars that have them, but many have the replacement type.  I was wondering how rare these studs actually are, or not.

Thanks,
Bryan

[Dusk Blue Z]

Great Pictures! Thanks for posting.

A couple things I would like to point out. The first is the ribbed PCV hose with the Black flat ended spring clamp, no clamp on the PCV valve which was probably changed out years ago. There was a post about this hose awhile ago.

Next is the Y fuel block that looks to be steel? Will a magnet stick to it? Mine is brass.

Mike

[BULLITT65]

good eye, I assume the ribbed hose is original?

[68camaroz28]

Great Pictures! Thanks for posting.

A couple things I would like to point out. The first is the ribbed PCV hose with the Black flat ended spring clamp, no clamp on the PCV valve which was probably changed out years ago. There was a post about this hose awhile ago.

Next is the Y fuel block that looks to be steel? Will a magnet stick to it? Mine is brass.

Mike

Umm, I thought every survivor I've looked at has the black phosphate flat ended spring clamp so where did you find or learn that? I just went thru my pic file and everyone has it including JohnZ's 69 Z, and Jerry McNeish's 68Z survivor. On the hose, many of the originals had some type of ribbing and what I've noticed is later service replacements do not. One can still purchase the PCV hose from GM but its smooth. What post are you referring to? The fuel block does have the look of aluminum but is non-magnetic and I assume it to be brass with a coating as I have an original cross-ram fuel block that looks exactly the same but is heavy and in the threads you can see its brass. If you go to my build thread & post 838 I have a picture that was supplied by Jon Mello showing a 68Z motor coming off the dress line (assumption) and the pcv hose has the clamp. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584&page=56
Hope that helps Mike on our end,

[68camaroz28]

Great Pictures! Thanks for posting.

A couple things I would like to point out. The first is the ribbed PCV hose with the Black flat ended spring clamp, no clamp on the PCV valve which was probably changed out years ago. There was a post about this hose awhile ago.

Next is the Y fuel block that looks to be steel? Will a magnet stick to it? Mine is brass.

Mike

Mike here is a picture of an original cross-ram fuel block and it looks steel or more like aluminum but its some type of coating over the brass. At the bottom of the threads you can see the brass as this fuel block had been used at Bill Jenkins shop. I can only assume that the late 69Z has a similar or same coating as again, it is non-magnetic as we checked!

[JohnZ]

Go to your Assembly Manual, section Z28, sheet A5, item #6 PCV hose - it says "prod. clamp" at both ends. That refers to the standard V-8 in UPC 6, sheet C8, item #8, which is the black spring clamp, used at both ends of the PCV hose. The clamp is correct - no clamp is not.

[Dusk Blue Z]

Chick,

You can learn a lot going through Legends Judging... I had seen the ribbed hose in several pictures of low mileage original cars. If you use the still available hose from GM wipe off the inkjet part numbers first. No inkjet printers in 1969. I found one at http://www.newyorkrestomod.com/default.asp but I don't see it on their website now.

The square cut clamps ends are made differently now and have rounded ends, I have heard a small grinder can change that. The one in the picture looks like it was painted Black as there is a small section flaked off.

I wonder what finish would be on a NOS fuel Y block?

Mike

[68camaroz28]

Chick,

You can learn a lot going through Legends Judging... I had seen the ribbed hose in several pictures of low mileage original cars. If you use the still available hose from GM wipe off the inkjet part numbers first. No inkjet printers in 1969. I found one at http://www.newyorkrestomod.com/default.asp but I don't see it on their website now.

The square cut clamps ends are made differently now and have rounded ends, I have heard a small grinder can change that. The one in the picture looks like it was painted Black as there is a small section flaked off.

I wonder what finish would be on a NOS fuel Y block?

Mike

I think most here Mike know about the correct squared off spring clamps that also applies to the gas line clamps that are a kind of olive green color. NCRS is where I first heard of changing the repro's that are round to squared off years ago but they are still catchable IMO since the ears become too short. The clamp in my opinion was not painted black but has a small section that is rusting causing a type of flaking. Looking at this car I'm confident the carb was never off the car and is quite a specimen for reviews.

[68camaroz28]

Spare with 27 marked inside rim.


This I always found interesting that the 69 had such a different trunk lid bumper compared to the 67 & 68. This is one of the originals off the car and quick story. We knew the left side deck lid bumper was missing when the car was first looked at way back when. Not too long ago we were looking at the car and the trunk mat and in the crevice of the left side of the trunk the owner/friend while I'm standing beside him says can you believe this and picks up an original trunk lid bumper. What was interesting was the hole in the lid where it goes seemed to indicate if there was one there at one time it was not for too long. We believe possibly it was put in but not correctly, fell in the trunk corner crevice, and been there since the car was built. Just one of those things you find interesting.



Labels on the rear hubs.

[L78 steve]

Spare with 27 marked inside rim.


This I always found interesting that the 69 had such a different trunk lid bumper compared to the 67 & 68. This is one of the originals off the car and quick story. We knew the left side deck lid bumper was missing when the car was first looked at way back when. Not too long ago we were looking at the car and the trunk mat and in the crevice of the left side of the trunk the owner/friend while I'm standing beside him says can you believe this and picks up an original trunk lid bumper. What was interesting was the hole in the lid where it goes seemed to indicate if there was one there at one time it was not for too long. We believe possibly it was put in but not correctly, fell in the trunk corner crevice, and been there since the car was built. Just one of those things you find interesting.



Labels on the rear hubs.

Different trunk lid bumper for 67 68 ? My late 67 has the same type.

[68camaroz28]

This I always found interesting that the 69 had such a different trunk lid bumper compared to the 67 & 68. This is one of the originals off the car and quick story. We knew the left side deck lid bumper was missing when the car was first looked at way back when. Not too long ago we were looking at the car and the trunk mat and in the crevice of the left side of the trunk the owner/friend while I'm standing beside him says can you believe this and picks up an original trunk lid bumper. What was interesting was the hole in the lid where it goes seemed to indicate if there was one there at one time it was not for too long. We believe possibly it was put in but not correctly, fell in the trunk corner crevice, and been there since the car was built. Just one of those things you find interesting.

Different trunk lid bumper for 67 68 ? My late 67 has the same type.

Originals I have looked at were a thicker and more squared off where the outside diameter met the face. Here is an example from a 68Z and our 68 was the same. Just my observation over the years between different years.

[68camaroz28]

Steve, you remember this thread? It dealt with different deck lid bumpers with pictures.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7160.0

[L78 steve]

Steve, you remember this thread? It dealt with different deck lid bumpers with pictures.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7160.0

I'm getting old, Cant remember stuff. Thank you for the pics. and link.

[69Z28-RS]

Chick, Thank you for those new photo's.  The carb studs were an item that I've been wanting to compare from this car.  The studs with the undercut at the top seem to be original across the board and very very hard to find.  Some of the more advanced vendors do not have these studs.  I have these same studs in my intake, and know of a few more cars that have them, but many have the replacement type.  I was wondering how rare these studs actually are, or not.

Thanks,
Bryan

Bryan,  your comment would be more meaningful if you could post a comparison pix between the original 'undercut' top type of stud, along with the reproduction you are referring to..  that would show the difference(s)...?

[luv2sixty9]

Chick,
Would it be possible to get detailed pics of the Master Cylinder Lid / Wording and Vent holes. Thanxs Dave

[68camaroz28]

Chick,
Would it be possible to get detailed pics of the Master Cylinder Lid / Wording and Vent holes. Thanxs Dave

Sorry it took so long Dave as I was on vacation and then took some time to get back up for a picture but here you go!

[luv2sixty9]

Thanxs Chick for the response and I don't care that it took some time I'm just glad that you could accomadate me. I know that you're a busy man and things in life pop up. 

Do you have any pics of his shifter body / date. I've been trying to keep tabs on the shifters and I believe they are dated, but some guys don't think so.

[68camaroz28]

Thanxs Chick for the response and I don't care that it took some time I'm just glad that you could accomadate me. I know that you're a busy man and things in life pop up. 

Do you have any pics of his shifter body / date. I've been trying to keep tabs on the shifters and I believe they are dated, but some guys don't think so.

I thought they were dated as well! No, do not have any pics of shifter body as have not been totally under the car YET.

[69Z28-RS]

I believe we've collected sufficient information from enough shifter bodies/cars to know that there is a date coded into the manufacturer's number; not an explicit 'date only code', but the date of manufacture (month and year) is coded into the number on the shifter body. 

[68camaroz28]

Well we have much to update on as Skip and I had his incredible 69Z survivor on our 4 post lift to review and take lot's of pictures. I will be posting them over this weekend. And for anyone going to Carlisle's GM Nationals Skip's 69Z will be in the solid lifter display building just outside gate one.  Busy week here with the street rods in town.

[ZLP955]

Looking forward to those pictures Chick!

[68camaroz28]

Front wheel Hub assembly with crayon markings (two colors), part #, and note "A" on wheel studs. Rear stud marking different.


Rear stud had dash type identification.


Front brake Caliper-


One of the front brake hoses-


Left side drum brake adjuster Julian code in orange.


Right side drum brake adjuster Julian code in white.


Note paint line caused by drum being on when painted.


Other brake hardware colors-

[BULLITT65]

Great pics. That is interesting with the orange and white. I didn't take a pic of my passenger side, but my drivers rear brake hardware has the julian date in white and still has the original brake shoes as well. I am pretty sure it has never been serviced since new.

[6667ss138]

Great stuff Chick! Your efforts with all the pictures will be so helpful to me one day. Thanks!!

Austin, thats great that yours are still the originals too, I haven't been into mine yet but can't believe mine will be factory. To many miles.

[NoYenko]

Chick, thanks for sharing these great pictures. Did you happen to get a picture of the upper shoe springs?

[68camaroz28]

Chick, thanks for sharing these great pictures. Did you happen to get a picture of the upper shoe springs?

Yes I did George but the dang thing was not clear so I deleted it. Will have to work to take it again.
More pics to come.......

[68camaroz28]

This we both found interesting and can only assume there were two assemblers, one on the right side and one on the left side.
The right side front spoiler hardware was put on this way!


But the left side front spoiler hardware was put on opposite from the right side. Makes it nice to see exactly what hardware was used though!


The sub-frame inner rails from underneath definitely had some gloss and appeared to be a semi-gloss!


Except for two pieces much of the exhaust is original to the car.



Shifter is in just outstanding condition and easy to note coatings from new.



Dip painted!


Gas cap!

[ZLP955]

Can anyone else not see the latest pictures, or is it just me?

[6667ss138]

Tim, I am seeing them with no problem.

[1968RSZ28]

Tim, I am seeing them with no problem.

Ditto.

Paul

[ZLP955]

Can anyone else not see the latest pictures, or is it just me?

getting them now, temporary issue with photobucket.

[68camaroz28]

I'm always interested in how assemblers placed these on.......



Rear panel area-


Rear spoiler paint-


Suspension paint markings found-

[BULLITT65]

My apologies in the picture you say "dip painted", what is that a picture of?

thanks

[1968RSZ28]

My apologies in the picture you say "dip painted", what is that a picture of?

thanks

Austin, it is one of the rear axle rubber bumper and bracket assemblies.  They mount to the rear frame rails.  You can find their exact locations in the AIM: UPC 4, Sheet B3.

Paul 

[bergy]

How about the way they painted the stripes on that spoiler?  Don't see many restored like that!

[1968RSZ28]

How about the way they painted the stripes on that spoiler?  Don't see many restored like that!

Yup, it looks like they removed the masking tape while the paint was still wet. 

Paul

[Steve Shauger]

Chick thanks for posting the pics. Looking forward to having this car participate in Vintage Certification in the near future. Just looking at the pics weakens my knees. This is one of the most complete unmolested and unfluffed cars I've seen. Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!

[68camaroz28]

Chick thanks for posting the pics. Looking forward to having this car participate in Vintage Certification in the near future. Just looking at the pics weakens my knees. This is one of the most complete unmolested and fluffed cars I've seen. Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!

Agree Steve! The more in depth its looked at the more appreciation we have for this rare specimen of a Camaro. Had LOL when I read Bruce's (Bergy) note on don't see them restored that way (spoiler), as I thought the same thing when looking at it.....
The rear stamping-


Differential plug and posi tag-


Aren't those dimples cute-


Both rear body mounts show the tape used to keep water out during the water spray test.



Oil pan plug-


Trans mount bolts-


Trans speedo cable clip located in trans tunnel-


Trans metal tag-


Trans stamp-

[Steve Shauger]

BTW the quality of your pictures is outstanding. What model camera do you have....

[68camaroz28]

BTW the quality of your pictures is outstanding. What model camera do you have....

Oldest camera we have and now obsolete I believe! It's a Kodak easy share that utilizes a docking station to re-charge. Small, and I like the close up feature on it along with ease to download to computer. Its the best of what we have for taking those close up's!

[69Z28-RS]

I agree with Steve..  your closeup photos are outstanding...

[6667ss138]

X3  I'm with Steve and Gary! Great job Chick!

[BULLITT65]

Lets really see how good that camera is .....how about the vin stamp? j/k the engine one is a toughie to get the right angle

[ZLP955]

Fantastic details Chick, please keep them coming!

[68camaroz28]

Bell Housing of course is not 100% painted. Note the clutch fork has paint due to being part of the engine assembly going to paint. The rubber boot was put on at NOR on the dress line.



Similar to the bottom of the oil pan the bottom of the bell housing is almost void of paint. Note also the crayon mark! Maybe Steve will voice some information but I've seen this on several cars including our 68Z.


Some light blue paint on end of pinion.


One of the rear shocks-


In behind the rear wheel well/rear quarter area gray primer both sides.



And a little forward we note the red type primer.

[ZLP955]

Amazing!

[68camaroz28]

Coil spring tag-


A little more suspension and Exhaust-





Starter-


Note the A-arm paint (painted as assembly)


And they were re-cycling tires even back then-


Both tail-pipes original and look great-


And a fitting end for now, The (rear) End (of the car)....

[69Z28-RS]

Chick,

What's the code on the coil spring tag?   I can't quite read it in the photo...    and I'm also curious about the date on the Starter.  Did you notate it?

[ZLP955]

Starter date looks like 9 J x

[BULLITT65]

Great pics Chick. Thanks for the time you put in.

[68camaroz28]

Chick,

What's the code on the coil spring tag?   I can't quite read it in the photo...    and I'm also curious about the date on the Starter.  Did you notate it?

Gary, did not realize that coil spring tag picture was that unclear until the time came to post so will have to review that along with the starter as I need to take a mirror to see around the corner similar to taking this left side shock absorber.

[69Z28-RS]

The coil spring 'code' appears that it might be 'EY' as is my own, but not sure since I can only see half.   I think I could read the PN but I can't find the table between PN and code (as yet)..      I agree that the starter seems to be a Sept '69 date (9 J  ?).. I suspect late in September since it's a 10C car but?   

[Bryan302]

Gary, 3925814 is EY code.  I'm curious as to how and why the same spring would be in a std. and RS car.  Is RS equipment not enough weight to have a different spring?

Bryan

[69Z28-RS]

It's all about the total weight on the front and rear of the cars (with their options).   BOth that car and my car have the cowl hood which is a significant weight addition..  and their is a 'range' of weights' that fall into the same spring category.

[BULLITT65]

Intersting. I wasn't aware of a big weight difference of the hood. So you think if my car would have received the flat hood, that would have dictated different springs? Or just your combo of RS and hood that did it?

[69Z28-RS]

I was wrong about the cowl hood being a 'significant' weight addition (checking the tables it only adds 1 lb)..  but Power Steering adds 30 lbs, and HD battery adds 18 lbs....  Note: The RS package adds 23 lbs.
See the data here:   http://camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/69_spring_chart.pdf

[BULLITT65]

I will take the 1lb for the hood, and you can have the 10lbs (9lb) for the radio/speaker. Some of figures can't be right can they? 7lb for a vinyl top, 8 for a console?
A early (no spoilers) base Z/28, radio delete car must end up weighing at least 100lbs less than any other typical Camaro. My car only has the hood and radio for options, oh and floor mats (also has factory spoilers). But even my car would weigh 20+ more lbs than a bone stock early car according to those stats.

[68camaroz28]

The coil spring 'code' appears that it might be 'EY' as is my own, but not sure since I can only see half.   I think I could read the PN but I can't find the table between PN and code (as yet)..      I agree that the starter seems to be a Sept '69 date (9 J  ?).. I suspect late in September since it's a 10C car but?   

Gary, its a 09D car!

[69Z28-RS]

Sorry Chick,  I thought it was nearer to mine, but today I was running back thru all the photos and the only trim plate I saw was a 10C... post 86.. was that for a different car?

[68camaroz28]

Yes! There had been questions about the underside of the cowl air cleaner and that is another local car Garnet Red from Ammon R Smith and the post prior showed the window sticker from that car. During that span we showed with a mirror the underside of that air cleaner!
First post in thread states the 09D, but can understand the confusion so here we go Gary!

[m22mike]

Chick
Are the lug nuts on your car clear cad/zinc or clear with yellow dichromate ?
Mike

[jdv69z]

I was wrong about the cowl hood being a 'significant' weight addition (checking the tables it only adds 1 lb)..  but Power Steering adds 30 lbs, and HD battery adds 18 lbs....  Note: The RS package adds 23 lbs.
See the data here:   http://camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/69_spring_chart.pdf

My Oct 68 10B RS/Z has EY springs. Originally Flat hood, and power steering. Would think RS would have different springs than non RS?

[69Z28-RS]

I was wrong about the cowl hood being a 'significant' weight addition (checking the tables it only adds 1 lb)..  but Power Steering adds 30 lbs, and HD battery adds 18 lbs....  Note: The RS package adds 23 lbs.
See the data here:   http://camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/69_spring_chart.pdf

My Oct 68 10B RS/Z has EY springs. Originally Flat hood, and power steering. Would think RS would have different springs than non RS?

I think there's an 80 to 100 lb range of weights that got the EY front springs...

[68camaroz28]

Chick
Are the lug nuts on your car clear cad/zinc or clear with yellow dichromate ?
Mike

Mike, clear zinc or what many refer to as silver zinc. Just to clarify, this incredible survivor belongs to a good friend (Skip) and unfortunately is not in my garage dang it. This car will be at the solid lifter display outside gate one at Carlisle's GM Nationals.

[bergy]

OUTSIDE?  Brian, if you're listening - make room inside the building!

[m22mike]

Thanks Chick. I have seen one othere later Camaro with the lug nuts yellow dichromate, that's why I asked.
Looking forward to seeing you and Skip soon. I will be tagging along with Grady. No car for me this year.

Mike

[68camaroz28]

Thanks Chick. I have seen one othere later Camaro with the lug nuts yellow dichromate, that's why I asked.
Looking forward to seeing you and Skip soon. I will be tagging along with Grady. No car for me this year.

Mike

See you Thursday when I tag along with Skip when he brings this car up for display. Look forward to seeing everyone!

[HawkX66]

If you are still able to take some pics and you have a chance, I'd love to see some pics of the diff cover, including a detail shot of the brake line block/bracket and bolt. Also a pic of the brake backing plates (the side facing the diff) would be great. Thanks!

[BULLITT65]

Chick how about a new thread with the story and pics on the garnet Red 10C car?

[Steve Shauger]

We are excited to announce that this car will be joining us at MCACN to be Vintage Certified. This is a great opportunity to see the car up close at the show. We have a 68 Z28 (member here) that we look forward to certifying as well. We also have a 4300 mile 70 Chevelle LS6 and 11 other cars.

[miket1]

Steve, is the 4300 mile LS6 coming from Colorado

[Steve Shauger]

Yes and we have several other cars with ultra low mileage as well. How about a 1969 Hemi Super Bee with 3600 miles.

[zman1969]

any more pics of rest of these clips?


do any of the nuts have washers under them?
Thanks so much for the detailed pics 

[68camaroz28]

Yes and we have several other cars with ultra low mileage as well. How about a 1969 Hemi Super Bee with 3600 miles.

Looking forward Steve as I'm traveling with that 69Z to be right there when its observed and judged.
Rich, I will take some more pics of the speedo clips but believe they changed design along the way so be careful depending on when your car was built. The dimpled nut for the emergency brake cable brkt had/has no washer that I'm aware of.

[Steve Shauger]

Chick, we have a line-up of killer cars and owners. We will begin judging around 12pm on Thursday. Skip will be mailed his credentials and move-in time, although Vintage begins at 11ish on Thursday. We have 15 cars so it will be both intense and fun.  Very much looking forward to the event. Simply put it will be amazing.....

[68camaroz28]

Chick, we have a line-up of killer cars and owners. We will begin judging around 12pm on Thursday. Skip will be mailed his credentials and move-in time, although Vintage begins at 11ish on Thursday. We have 15 cars so it will be both intense and fun.  Very much looking forward to the event. Simply put it will be amazing.....

Steve, you always have a great line up but this year might be one special year for sure with some of the survivors coming. Anyway, Skip and I are ready and will see you Thursday.
Hope to see many CRG members......

[dannystarr]

I fly in on Wednesday.. Reliable will be loading my car in on Thursday as far as I know. Good Times!! Can't wait to meet everyone and take some great pictures!!..      .. Danny

[BillOhio]

It looks like my buddy and I are going Friday, will be good to meet you guys. I think I first posted Dannys car on here, will be neat to see it

[Steve Shauger]

I just finished making Vintage Certification posters for two celebrity owners and their cars for the upcoming MCACN show Nov 21st & 22nd.

[dannystarr]

Hey Steve, SWEET.. Can't wait to get it. But am I seeing 2014 instead of '15? In no way am I complaining, just wondering... D

[Steve Shauger]

Hey Steve, SWEET.. Can't wait to get it. But am I seeing 2014 instead of '15? In no way am I complaining, just wondering... D

Oops, good catch.  Thanks

[BULLITT65]

Steve the posters look great, where do the posters get displayed?

[Steve Shauger]

The poster is placed on the cars windshield. It helps get a conversation going between spectator & owners. The poster is laminated and they get that, their score sheets, and certificate/plaque.

[68camaroz28]

For all CRG members we are planning or arriving to MCACN Thursday around 2PM at which time we will be placing Skip's 69Z in place with other survivors. Look forward to meeting many members and a enjoying a great show......

[bergy]

Steve - gotta say - thanks for all you do for our hobby!  I'll be caravanning out with Chick & Skip.  See you all at the show!

[dannystarr]

My car loaded on Reliable, left Friday afternoon. Truck heads to San Jose, CA for 3 more cars, then one more stop in Northern CA off Hwy 80 for one more car. Then that's it for that truck, 5 cars on the way to MCACN!!    My car's time of entry is also scheduled between 2 & 4pm. We fly in Wed. night at about 9pm.
Looking forward to meeting everyone. Since they yanked out my thyroid my weight has been all over the road. Don't think I can fit into my CRG shirt    Maybe Steve the shirt guy or someone else will have an XX I can buy at the show.... Danny

[Steve Shauger]

Steve - gotta say - thanks for all you do for our hobby!  I'll be caravanning out with Chick & Skip.  See you all at the show!

Thanks. Very much looking forward to the show, and uncovering the jewels of information from these time capsules. You're in great company with Chick and Skip . We have 16 cars this year, so again we are at max plus capacity. One constraint in the past was we only had one lift, this year we have a new lift vendor "Titan", and they have committed to two lifts which should help move the process along. I appreciate every owners effort in participating in this show; we understand the commitment, time and expense it takes.

Last year we added the Time Capsule (95% unrestored in all 5 areas) award level and I think we have a few candidates. Something new for this year was I offered original owners of unrestored Muscle Cars, the Vintage Certification at no fee(they've earned that). We have two participating and one is a 65 Impala L78, red with a white interior which is over the top.

Very excited about the show and the amazing collection of cars, owners and collectors. Make sure you stop by the Vintage area and say hi. Hope everyone has a safe trip....

   

[dannystarr]

I get it when it comes to expense. I am at $5,600!! That's Reliable Carriers cost, show fee's, hotel for 6 nights, flight out and back, long term parking, not including food and daily life in Chicago. JUST about drained my savings. It's all worth it to me and an honor to be there. Always wanted to go to this show and now not only am I going, but participating also. Can't beat that..     BUT, to lighten the load.. my birthday is in a few days and my sweetie bought me a set of 4 E70-15 Good Year Speedway Wide Tread GT's from Rusty {Good Year tire connection} a few days ago and they arrived JUST in time. So that was a nice touch... Danny

[BULLITT65]

I am jealous you guys are going to have a great time. I just made a road trip through there. Just missed the show by one week, what a bummer. Unfortunately I had no more wiggle room with my schedule. I was lucky enough to see my friends Unrestored 69Z, and purchase a clean 2010 Camaro SS (for my wife) on the trip so it was not a total loss.

I look forward to all the updates and pics!

[68camaroz28]

A few more things learned or happened to see at MCACN along with some info I was asked to show.
Engine lift bracket and intake bolt (Intake bolts are phosphate) have silver paint on.


Detailed pic showing underside of spoiler stripe paint.


Weld bead on wheel and paint dab on tire used to assist with ease of balancing or obtaining a good balance first time. Good reason we seldom see large amount of lead weights on survivor wheel/tire combo's.



And was asked to show the size of the date stamp on the sub-frame. Letters/numbers are approximately 1/2" in height.

[68camaroz28]

This was pointed out to me at MCACN that it shows late built Camaro's with spoiler at some point changed from the normal earlier rectangular square corner slot to a radius.

[BULLITT65]

that rear spoiler pic has me thinking. Can someone post a pic of the squared off hole? when did they make the switch?

[68camaroz28]

that rear spoiler pic has me thinking. Can someone post a pic of the squared off hole? when did they make the switch?

Not sure when switch was made but must be late year as several spring 69 cars looked at have the rectangular type. See Danny's survivor for picture of rectangular type posted.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14070.0

[BULLITT65]

Interesting, might be another research topic to narrow down the date, and figure out why this may have happened. One thing I noticed on my unrestored car is a grease pen type date on the under side of the left wing, it says "6-24 D" . Not sure if you saw anything on the underside of this wing that would be similar. I will have to get at the right angle , and see if I can figure out which spoiler I have on my 08C car.

[6667ss138]

My 07A Z/28 spoiler with original paint has the radius slots like Chick's photo.
Austin, after your comment, I looked and sure enough there is a writing on the left wing of mine as well....It's hard to read but pretty sure its M528. So far, every original part on my car is dated May or June.
Chick, thank you for the continued photos!

[BULLITT65]

Well maybe we should start a new thread on spoilers? thats 2 that have the markings!

[6667ss138]

Lets do it. I nominate you to get it started 

[Jon Mello]

Here's another shot of the frame marking on Skip's car. I took this at MCACN last month.

[Jon Mello]

I thought this was interesting. On spoiler cars, I thought the holes for Camaro trunk emblems were drilled in both the lower and upper positions. There is no sign that the lower holes were ever drilled on this lid. Also, there are no acorn-style nuts along the back edge spoiler studs.

[Jon Mello]

Notice that the inner part of the stripe on the cowl does not follow the contour of the sunken area. It extends back from that about 1/4" or so. Most Z's I've seen are masked this way on the cowl panel but if people don't have an original example to go by, they typically follow the contour line.

[BULLITT65]

I think mid 69 they switched from acorn nut to the ones in your picture for the rear spoiler. My 08C car has the same kind as Skips car, while I am pretty sure JohnZ 02D car still has the acorn nuts. I would have to go back and look at the stripe layout, good observation.

[cook_dw]

From my database of trunk lids it appears around April - May the cars that had spoilers did not have both sets of holes..  I can not say for certain that the nuts are correct or original..  Excellent observation Mr. Mello!!

[68camaroz28]

I thought this was interesting. On spoiler cars, I thought the holes for Camaro trunk emblems were drilled in both the lower and upper positions. There is no sign that the lower holes were ever drilled on this lid. Also, there are no acorn-style nuts along the back edge spoiler studs.

Excellent Jon! Know Lloyd has some good pics he could share also! Help me but believe JohnZ or someone along the line stated the top holes were pierced (all the earlier lids) when the deck lid was made making only spoiler cars needing the drilling at the plant. 

[X33RS]

Notice that the inner part of the stripe on the cowl does not follow the contour of the sunken area. It extends back from that about 1/4" or so. Most Z's I've seen are masked this way on the cowl panel but if people don't have an original example to go by, they typically follow the contour line.

The original stripes are still present on my cowl and they are done in a similar fashion however not as pronounced as that one.  My main stripe measures about 1/8" back from the contour.  12D Norwood car.

[Jon Mello]

From my database of trunk lids it appears around April - May the cars that had spoilers did not have both sets of holes..  I can not say for certain that the nuts are correct or original..  Excellent observation Mr. Mello!!

Thanks, Darell. I'm glad you have been following the '69 trunk lids. Maybe this hole drilling change occurred at the same time the D80 appeared on the cowl tag?

[Jon Mello]

The original stripes are still present on my cowl and they are done in a similar fashion however not as pronounced as that one.  My main stripe measures about 1/8" back from the contour.  12D Norwood car.

Good info. Yes, I will agree there is some variation to how they were masked but it seems that most original examples are more similar to what has been observed on Skip's car.

[BULLITT65]

The stripes look similar to my car, Skips may be a bit straighter than mine

[BULLITT65]

better angle

[hgger69]

better angle

He, he, looks pink to me....are your car a "special paint" too?

[X33RS]

The stripes look similar to my car, Skips may be a bit straighter than mine

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost looks to me that your main stripe actually gains thickness from the contour from the inside out.    Mine kind of gave me that appearance as well but can't get an accurate measurement difference.  At best mine is a "heavy" 1/8" not quite 3/16, but where I got the most accurate measurement on mine was definitely 1/8" overhang.

[X33RS]

The original stripes are still present on my cowl and they are done in a similar fashion however not as pronounced as that one.  My main stripe measures about 1/8" back from the contour.  12D Norwood car.

Good info. Yes, I will agree there is some variation to how they were masked but it seems that most original examples are more similar to what has been observed on Skip's car.

Build dates might be helpful with something like this?  Unfortunately there probably isn't enough originals to document such a thing.

[cook_dw]

Thanks, Darell. I'm glad you have been following the '69 trunk lids. Maybe this hole drilling change occurred at the same time the D80 appeared on the cowl tag?

Very well could be.. I went back through this morning and looked at my data again and I missed an 03E car that doesn't have both sets of holes..  I need a better pic of JohnZ's lid to very my theory but I'm thinking it has more to do with the introduction of the T/A lid..  Its also hard to verify due to not knowing some of the ones I have whether or not they were original spoiler cars/lids..

[69Z28-RS]

Are you coining new terms, Darrell??     What's a T/A lid...?   

[cook_dw]

Trans Am.  When they came out the lids had to be changed due to the spoiler; the inner layer of the lid needed 4 additional holes to be able to drill through the outer layer.  At that same time the tabs close to the lip of the lid were eliminated.

[cook_dw]

Also previously all lids were punched with the standard non spoiler holes by the supplier (I assuming this due to photos & lids I've seen) and when these other changes happened I would bet these were done away with & left up to the plants to punch.  Again assumption..

[Edgemontvillage]

Here are some photos I took at MCACN (I did not note all production dates). For D80 optioned cars the unused trunk lid emblem piercings were covered with textured tape (on top of lid):

68 Z/28 Survivor (holes pierced). Note the finger smudge marks from the factory painter raising/lowering the trunk lid.

69 Z/28 5A Norwood (holes pierced)

68 RS Z/28 Survivor (sort of) in Barn Find section (holes pierced)

69 Z/28 Survivor, 1C build, Van Nuys (holes pierced) Note the narrow shoulder of the original acorn nut unlike the repops

69 RS Z/28 3C, Norwood (Larry Christensen restoration) holes pierced

My (former) RS Z/28 4C Norwood (holes pierced)

My current RS Z/28 project 2B Norwood (holes pierced, shorty '68 spoiler)

[cook_dw]

Thanks for the photos and Ill add them to my data but we need to move this discussion to this thread and not cloud up the purpose of this section..

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12390.0;all

[68camaroz28]

If I can suggest, pictures of other deck lids and discussion particular to that theme seems like it should be on that excellent deck lid thread  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12390.0;all  and possibly not on a particular thread dedicated to a survivor. Just a thought!
The first deck lid picture Lloyd posted is Danny's 68Z with the finger mark in it which I posted on Danny's survivor thread. A good picture to post here Lloyd if you can is the one you took of the lower A-arm bushings concerning paint used to answer a question on another thread. You got some great pictures!

[69Z28-RS]

Trans Am.  When they came out the lids had to be changed due to the spoiler; the inner layer of the lid needed 4 additional holes to be able to drill through the outer layer.  At that same time the tabs close to the lip of the lid were eliminated.

Ohhhhh...   you are referring to the 'introduction of the '69 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am pix (which they made so very few of).   What was the introduction date of those cars?  I've never heard a date mentioned...  It was years before I even knew '69 TA's were built.

[dannystarr]

Here is the factory tape under my spoiler. I pulled it to get the spoiler part number.. Danny

[Steve Shauger]

Trans Am.  When they came out the lids had to be changed due to the spoiler; the inner layer of the lid needed 4 additional holes to be able to drill through the outer layer.  At that same time the tabs close to the lip of the lid were eliminated.

Ohhhhh...   you are referring to the 'introduction of the '69 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am pix (which they made so very few of).   What was the introduction date of those cars?  I've never heard a date mentioned...  It was years before I even knew '69 TA's were built.









The introduction of the TA's was early March of 69 and production began I believe in April (don't quote me). No TA's were built in the Lords plant as all firebird production shifted from that plant to Norwood. The deck lid was changed at that time to accommodate the TA winged spoiler. The LA also produced the TA but in very small quantity. Although I don't own one now I was lucky enough to own in 2003 ish. Great car that had much better handling and road feel than the Camaro.

[69Z28-RS]

Thanks Steve..

Do you or anyone know the production quantities for the '69 Trans Am ??  The production must have been tiny, in comparison to Z28s...

[bcmiller]

I think 697 total Pontiac Trans Ams in 1969.

689 coupes and 8 convertibles.

Most coupes were Ram Air HO. 55 coupes and all 8 convertibles had Ram Air IV.

Getting a little off topic though.

[69Z28-RS]

.. blame Darrell..  he's the one who mentioned 'TA lids' in a Camaro conversation...

[68camaroz28]

Some picture of hardware that might have not been posted. If they have been I apologize.
Rear bumper guard hardware-

RSC bolt with "N" stamping within circle on bumper guard bracket.

Oil pan drain plug-

Should be noted the 69 trunk lid used a different lid rubber bumper than the 68 lid as it was smaller in thickness and design but believe it utilized the same part number. This is one of the originals in this 09D Z/28.

[Steve Shauger]

I think 697 total Pontiac Trans Ams in 1969.

689 coupes and 8 convertibles.

Most coupes were Ram Air HO. 55 coupes and all 8 convertibles had Ram Air IV.

Getting a little off topic though.

Just correcting the record. None of the 8 convertibles were RAIV's they were all RAIII . There were 55 RAIV coupes 46 manual and 6 automatic built.

[Jon Mello]

A few more pics of Skip's car taken at MCACN 2015.

[bcmiller]

I think 697 total Pontiac Trans Ams in 1969.   689 coupes and 8 convertibles.
Most coupes were Ram Air HO. 55 coupes and all 8 convertibles had Ram Air IV.
Getting a little off topic though.

Just correcting the record. None of the 8 convertibles were RAIV's they were all RAIII . There were 55 RAIV coupes 46 manual and 6 automatic built.

I will check my sources again.  Notice when I posted I said "I think".       For the record in your post 46 + 6 = 52.   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You were correct.  Thanks for the post.  None of the convertibles were Ram Air IV.  Sorry about that.

Looks like for the Ram Air IV coupes, there were 46 with manual transmission and 9 with an automatic transmission.  That's 55.   

http://www.transamworld.com/fbird-history-php.php
________________________________________________
Steve did not want to hijack the thread but did want to add this info.

All Trans-am were equipped with the special code 611 Ram Air package.  With that being the case the engine options were either RA III or RA IV. Basically the 400HO + Ram Air package 611= RA III.

[Steve Shauger]

I've attached a link which highlights some of the cars we Vintage Certified. Included in the article is Skips magnificent 69 Z/28 which achieved our Time Capsule award. This car represent how these cars rolled off the assembly line. I'm always fascinated with not only technical aspects of the car but the history behind how they were selected and why they have remained virtually untouched. I know back in the day I couldn't wait to modify a car with go-fast day2 modification, so to find a car like Skip's well it's special.

Link:
http://www.hotrod.com/events/1602-check-out-the-amazing-stories-behind-these-unrestored-original-muscle-cars-at-car-and-corvette-nationals/

[68camaroz28]

Detailed pictures of this late 09D cowl induction original air cleaner.






[/URL
[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/69z28/Skips%2069Z%20round2/DSC_1142_zpsuhflncmo.jpg.html]

[IanMo]

what state was this car found in, if you don't mind me asking?

[1968RSZ28]

what state was this car found in, if you don't mind me asking?

Pennsylvania.

Paul

[zman1969]

Have you looked at the PCV to see if its the Spun one? looks by pic that its not??

[68camaroz28]

Have you looked at the PCV to see if its the Spun one? looks by pic that its not??

Rich, yes it still has the old spun valve which was checked during Vintage Certification.

[firstgenaddict]

I thought this was interesting. On spoiler cars, I thought the holes for Camaro trunk emblems were drilled in both the lower and upper positions. There is no sign that the lower holes were ever drilled on this lid. Also, there are no acorn-style nuts along the back edge spoiler studs.

FWIW there is a research topic on the piercings on the decklid... this is the best discussion on the subject without rival.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3752.0

[68camaroz28]

Original battery tray and note the tab where the battery hold down clamp attaches. I've not noted a NOS service replacement battery tray yet with the tab but have pictures of several survivors that have the tab.

[68camaroz28]

Some detailed hardware pictures.
"RSC" marked distributor hold down bolt


Both lift brkt shouldered "M" marked bolts


Anchor marked coil brkt screws with star washer.


Spark plug looms attached to valve covers are natural with rubber type coating.

[69Z28-RS]

Chick,  those are very nice and detailed photos which will help many here...

[6667ss138]

Thanks, Chick!

[68camaroz28]

Some say the a-arm shims were zinc from the factory but what I've noted seems to indicate they were natural with no coating. Note on Skip's A-arm how well preserved the zinc nut is, the painted A-arm assembly, and how rusty the original shims look. No remnants of zinc IMHO.


Now to the lower hood release and how it is attached with four 3846202 captured washer screws.

[BillOhio]

It appears Skips distributor hold down is painted?

[68camaroz28]

It appears Skips distributor hold down is painted?

Yes Bill, and a few intake bolts had remnants of silver paint on as they were not zinc as seen in one picture.

[Charley]

My 1100 mile 70 Z28 also had it's dist hold down and other brackets painted silver and others were brush painted orange.

[janobyte]

Reply #231


Like most of everything else, my shims were entombed in undercoating and/or paint. No corrosion. The surfaces which mated next to each other bore no sign of zinc, from what I could observe. Nothing shiny. And I had my reading specs on They received a low pressure bead blast and a coating of Sharkhide. You can see part of the shim tab upper left corner.

[BULLITT65]

So I was reviewing Skips car, and noticed a couple of things. Looks like the original owner installed some aftermarket rear speakers. Was this a factory AM/FM car?

Also in relation to the radio. Shouldn't there be the rosewood trim pieces on the radio face behind the volume knob and tuning knob?

Thanks

[68camaroz28]

I took this picture recently reviewing and confirming that the screw and bottom section of spark plug 2 piece heat shield (drivers side) that bolts to block was installed prior to paint at Flint and bolt's captured washer was in fact a star type locking washer.

[68camaroz28]

All four center caps have a prominent indent from inner portion to face. The inside of caps have double poles or columns where screw attaches. Bottom of inside cap is different from earlier caps smoother bottom. All cap inside bottoms stamped #3925805 and 5525504.
cap 1969 step2
cap 1969 step
cap 1969 09D