Fake 1969 Camaro Indy Pace Car Alert

[sdkar]

hey guys,

I came across this 69 Pace Car for sale that says it is a numbers matching big block with manual transmission.

http://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/92775-1969-camaro-pace-car-convertible-z11-numbers-matching-396-and-4-speed.html


older ebay posting here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Pace-Car/351404837307?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D3bd52d1710514bfcbe545506625cad49%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D301636250558%26clkid%3D6282769564688034254&_qi=RTM2067268



However, I have been keeping track of every 69 Camaro pace car that is listed for sale and can be found on the internet.  I have several hundred in my database so far.  When I looked up this same VIN "625725" I show that is was a non-numbers matching small block with automatic transmission and was sold by sfsportscars on ebay back in January 2013.  One of the things in my notes was that the car had incorrect black door pulls...which this car also has. 

It appears to me, this seller is being less than honest, and someone is doing some numbers tampering. 


Just thought that any prospective buyers might want this info before buying this all original numbers matching pace car.

[bertfam]

For future searches:

124679N625725

Ed

[sdkar]

I found the older FOR SALE posting from the original seller "sfsportscars"  If you look at the pics here, you will see the small block engine and the automatic transmission in the listing.  The one thing that caught my eye, was the BLACK door pulls (they should have been orange), which is pictured on the car when it was a advertised as a small block with TH350 transmission, as well as the newer listing stating numbers matching big block with manual transmission.  This proves that this is the same exact car, but somebody seems to have tampered with the numbers on the big block.  Now, maybe I am wrong, and someone bought this car, and somehow, with a lot of luck, was able to fine the original big block engine and original transmission, and installed them into this car...but I have my doubts.  You can form your own opinion on the "originality" of this pace car. 

Shame on these sellers.  I hope they see this and correct their advertisement.  If not, I hope the buyers come across this and take action.  I represented a client who bought a supposed numbers matching Z28.  Lucky for him he had a friend who was into old Camaros and a lawyer, who took legal action on his behalf and got him the value difference between a numbers matching Z28 and a base coupe Camaro with a 302, which was $45,000 back in his pocket and he was able to keep the car.  Not to mention, the seller was out of state, but was hailed into the buyer's jurisdiction because he advertised on a medium that extended into it.  The seller fought it tooth and nail, and even tried to deny they knew of the falsity, but in the end, it cost him big time.  It didn't matter if he knew or not...he SHOULD have, and he advertised the vehicle as "Numbers Matching".  I am telling this story in the hopes that it will make all parties realize that this is a serious matter, and if this car is sold in its current state as advertised, there is some serious liability. This is NOT a case of buyer beware.  The seller is on the hook if he is sued.

[sdkar]

Here is the older link showing the Camaro with a small block and automatic TH350.

http://sanfranciscosportscars.com/1969-camaro-z11-convertible/extras/gallery/slides/1969-camaro-z11-convertible-553.html

[sdkar]

Sold at Mecum auction
https://www.sportscarmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/mecum_houston_04-10-14.pdf

Advertised for sale by 2040 Cars car dealership
http://www.2040-cars.com/Chevrolet/Camaro/1969-cmaro-indy-pace-car-rs-ss-293395/

Sold by Fastlane Classic Cars, Inc. as numbers matching Big Block w/ manual transmission
http://fastlanecars.com/vehicles/473/1969-chevrolet-camaro-pace-car

Now currently for sale by SMclassiccars.com
http://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/92775-1969-camaro-pace-car-convertible-z11-numbers-matching-396-and-4-speed.html

The plot thickens...

[sdkar]

San Francisco Sports Cars
http://sanfranciscosportscars.com/1969-camaro-z11-convertible/

[maroman]

It says right in their ad that they wouldn't lie!

[KevinW]

Good catch Steve! Keeps everyone on the up & up!

[JoeC]

good detective work !

[VINCE Z28]

Steve is the car a real pace car and was the small block and auto trans. original to that car?

[sdkar]

From what I gathered, the small block engine was not original to the car either.  It was never stated that I could find that the automatic TH350 transmission was original or not.  My guess is the car is a real Z11 pace car, but is a small block pace car with a non-matching engine. 

The value difference a small block pace car with a non numbers-matching 350 c.i. engine, automatic transmission, is about half that of the same indy pace car with a supposed all original 396 c.i. big-block, manual transmission drivetrain.  And that is why they did it.  take a $30-something thousand dollar pace car, install a $10,000 engine and transmission, re-stamp the numbers, and presto, you now have an $70k-$80K Camaro pace car.   

[KurtS]

Yup, I don't have that car before 2012, but it was NOM then.
And next appeared at auction in 2015 with the restamped BB.