Messages

Yeah, it's pretty goofy.

So how do you describe a car like this?  I suppose technically it's not "numbers matching", or at least not "VIN matching".  I guess you would describe it as "documented original drivetrain"?  Just curious in case I decide to list it somewhere.  Seems like you get a lot of grey area on this and some shady wording by some, although I think this car is about as honest as they come.

A little more information:

I checked the decklid for date codes, and it has a date code that falls in line with the build of the car.  That is an old sticker that has not been applied any time recently.  And why would someone put a Firebird jack sticker on a Camaro decklid many years after the fact?  When people fake things, they try to make them look as close to the norms as possible.

I was looking through my documents and came across the paperwork from when the second owner purchased the car in 1971 from Ellis Brooks Chevrolet in San Francisco.  On it is an imprint of the original protecto-plate for the car, showing the correct VIN that matches the car, the assembly date stamp that matches the engine, the exact same date stamp that appears on the transmission, and the rear end stamping.  In my mind, this puts this to rest as some type of factory aberration.  I think the odds that someone found a Muncie M-20 with the exact same stamp as the protecto-plate, along with a stange VIN that happens to have the Los Angeles "L" in the sequence are extremely slim.  If someone stamped the date on the case at a later date, why would the not stamp a matching VIN to the car as well?  This date code stamping on the transmission has already been verified as a legitimate stamping.

My 69 convertible has the original black comfortweave interior, and it is generally pretty presentable.  However, I have a couple of seams popping on the top corner of the passenger seat and on one seam of the rear seatback.  The vinyl is not torn and is still soft and supple.  It appears that the threads simply disintegrated from the California sun.  Would it be possible to stitch these seams back together?  The one on the top of the rear seat is the most obvious and the one I would like to get fixed the most.  I figure the seat cover could be pulled off and I might be able to get back to the back side to sew it back together by hand.  Has anyone attempted this?  Any suggestions on thread, needles, where to get hog rings, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

I didn't even see a picture of the trim tag, but he even got the X77 wrong - the car has style trim on it, so if he wanted to execute a good fake, should have gone with X33.

Generic disc brake upgrade kit, and houndstooth seat covers with standard door panels - looks like the dealer has baited the hook for another unsuspecting buyer with deep pockets and little knowledge of first gen Camaros.

Good Lord in Heaven, who the heck wrote this ad copy?

"This 1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS was born an X66 Super Sport, and today it has even more big block muscle under the hood. So when you find a sleek red coupe with a 454 and four-on-the-floor, it really is you muscle car dreams come true.

A Camaro dressed in red always look good. And since there was a nice respray later in life of the factory-correct Garnet Red, this one still gives off the right kind of gloss in the sunshine. We especially appreciate the investment in the brightwork to give this a solid classic shine. But this one takes a truly intimidating stance when combined with the super scoop cowl hood, dark front spoiler, and D80 rear spoiler. The side hockey stick stripe looks particularly nice on this car. It not only goes with the blackout grille, but also it mimics the '69 car's exclusive fender stamping just below it. The 15-inch Rally wheels fill the wheel wells better and look great with raised white letter tires. In fact, there are extra meaty rear tires, and when you view this from the back, the subtle upgrades like the wide rubber and polished diff cover give this an aggressive undertone even when just standing still.

The interior has been upgraded to the deluxe houndstooth interior, and this icon is beautifully finished right down to the correct button-top pattern. While the whole interior is a fresh and tidy place for people to enjoy, the true focus is all on the driver. The center console has the proper quad auxiliary readout package, and the bright shifter is just calling out for your right hand. You left one goes on the classic-style three-spoke Chevy sports steering wheel, and beyond that is a large speedo and tach in deeply recessed individual pods.

We bet you'll love lifting the hood to showcase the engine bay. It's a show-ready presentation with extra slick fender walls, Chevy orange motor, plenty of polished components, and fresh/orderly details really make this whole motor look terrific. The X66 code on the trim tag tells us this is an SS396 Camaro. And while this was born a big block machine, there's something even meaner under the hood. Because while the callout says 396, this is a LARGER 454 cubic-inch V8. It's upgraded further with performance goodies, like an Edelbrock four-barrel carburetor, Speedmaster intake, and long tube headers. The four-speed manual transmission gives you full control over the big power and high octane soundtrack. And this fees solid on the road thanks to newer suspension bushing, newer body mounts, power steering, and power brakes with front discs.

This is a desirable real-deal SS that combines a mean look and serious power behind it. It's everything you want in a muscle car, and it's ready to run right now. Call today!!!"

Oh believe me, I'm not changing anything that would affect the car's originality.  Just cleaning things up and fixing things like oil leaks.  I reluctantly replaced the u-joints, only because they were getting a little questionable after all those years.  Would prefer to have the originals in there.

Apparently the BS didn't matter - sold for $120K!

Interesting.  If a car was ordered with both RS and SS equipment, did it go on one line or the other, or were they split between the SS and RS lines?

Kelley, are you talking about the partial VIN that was on my transmission, or the fellow with the 79?  My problem is that it is not a valid VIN - I suppose I could take a guess on it, but there are different number sequences depending on whether coupe or convertible.  Also, it is almost impossible to make out the last two numbers.

Another thing that is weird with this transmission is that it appears that it never had the O-shaped magnet installed in the bottom of the main case.  No sign of any glue or residue.  I am torn between leaving it like it is and just buying a magnetic drain plug for the side and getting one and epoxying it in there.

Ed, I was referring to the sticker on the underside of the trunk lid for the jack instructions.  Mine has a Firebird on it.  I believe it to be original.  I also have deluxe comfortweave, and the rear seat bottom has the larger Firebird pattern rather than Camaro.

I have read several articles about the VN plant that they had a lot of quality control and employee morale problems.  If the idiosyncracies on this car are in fact as it rolled off the line, then I think that is supported.

I know I probably sound like an idiot saying that I believe that these things are original to the car, but the documentation and background of the car support it.  Maybe I was sold a bill of goods when I bought the car from a local collector, but he has long handled a lot of high end Chevy's and I think he has a pretty good reputation.  But I am not going to name names until I have a little bit better idea what's going on here.

I am in communication with one of the long-time CRG members and he is going to forward the pictures of the VIN on to a couple of Camaro experts to evaluate it.  I will post them when I pull them off my phone.  I'm not great with posting them straight off my phone to the site.  Once we figure out what happened (if), I'll post the pictures up for all to see.  It truly is an odd thing.  I always thought the trunk sticker was strange, and I am 100% sure that it's the decklid that came on the car.

Well, the surfer dudes who built my car must have been smoking something, because they put the wrong seat and decklid sticker on it too.  There are a couple of pretty experienced Camaro collectors who know the car.  I am not saying that somewhere along the way someone didn't swap some things out.  But it would come as quite a surprise to me, considering the car's history.

OK, I got a bit of a surprise when I removed the Muncie M-20 from my Van Nuys built L35 car to install a clutch.  Car is a 10A build, engine VIN checks out, but the Muncie has a completely weird looking VIN stamped on it.  It is a faint stamping and pretty hard to read the last 2 digits, but it appears to be "76L103238".  It has a date stamp of P9P10, which seems to fall into the acceptable range of when the car was built.  I have owned this car for 25 years, it has a very solid set of documents including the build sheet, warranty transfer plate, a lot of old receipts, and a very extensive log book that was kept by the second owner (bought it in 1972) that lists every fuel stop and maintenance entry all the way up until the early 80's.  To my knowledge, I am the third registered owner of the car, although it passed through the hands of a few collectors before I ended up with it.

A couple of other idiosyncrasies are that it has a jack sticker for a Firebird under the decklid, and a Firebird deluxe rear seat bottom.

I am aware that they were also building Firebirds on this line at the same time.  Being an early build, it sounds like maybe they were having some supply chain issues or some other confusion.  The second owner documents one clutch replacement while he owned the car, done at a GM dealership.  It seems like the odds that someone would swap in a Firebird M-20 that happened to be built at Van Nuys with that date code would be kind of slim, and based on what else I know about the car, I feel fairly confident that it left the factory this way.  Can anybody provide any insight as to how this could have been botched like this?  I'm sure some will argue that someone swapped that transmission into the car somewhere along the way, but I would be very surprised if this was the case, although I guess it may be possible.

Looking forward to hearing some comments.  Anyone ever seen anything like this?