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Were the wheels that were painted the color of the car painted with lacquer or enamel? Were the black wheels painted at the assembly plant, or were they shipped in already painted black?

The pace cars and festival cars at the track were Wimbledon white. Whatever name you attach to the cars, they were the pace cars and festival cars. Wimbledon white was also a Ford truck color, and extremely popular on trucks in 64. The coupes (replicas?) were another shade of white. This was also a truck color which was renamed Indy Pace Car white for the Indy Car "non" program. My only point here was there were 2 colors of white in 1964 used by Ford in there pace car "non" program. The "Indy Style" Mustangs came in 2 colors.

You have me confused somewhat by your statement from above, quote  "What ford did was sort of like the 0-1/C-1 67 pace car dilema in reverse, where GM sent the standard ermine white color cars to the track and sold the 0-1 cars to the general public." Actually, weren't all the cars in the 67 Festival program all 0-1 cars? And the C-1 cars were the cars sold to the general public?

I do agree with you that enough has been said about the 64 Mustang IPC's and this needs to get back on to the 0-1 topic. You ask about results from the lab tests. Nothing is back yet. As soon as they are, they will be released. Sorry your not impressed by the test results. The goal is not to impress anyone, but just leave no stone unturned in seeking the truth in what really happened.

Has anyone heard from the member who started this thread, Marv who was asking about his 0-1 pace car?

You've got your references backwards the REPLICAS were certainly painted a different color, maybe they match a ford pickup color, don't know, but the cars at the track were Wimbleton white.

Additionally there are no convertible mustang replicas, they are all coupes, and there are no coupe mustangs in the group of cars sent to the track, they were all convertibles.  The replicas had nothing to do with the actual race events and none were there "officially" from Ford (doesn't mean some dealer local to Indy didn't take one or more over there).  What ford did was sort of like the 0-1/C-1 67 pace car dilema in reverse, where GM sent the standard ermine white color cars to the track and sold the 0-1 cars to the general public.  Ford didn't really have a mustang pace car program in 64, it was a stop gap measure at best.  The Galaxie was supposed to pace the race and at the last minute someone decided to substitute the Mustang as it was fast becoming their best seller.  The 190 pace car COUPES made by ford are no different that the 3600 or so 69 Z11s (or any of the thousands of cars built since then) that never got near the 500 during the month of may 1969, they were an advertising tool for their parent marquee.

All I'm trying to do is keep people from rewriting history, and quite frankly I don't give a hoot about the 64 Mustang pace car program, I'm just still trying to have someone tell me about enamel painted cars coming out of a factory setup to spray lacquer.  So far I'm not impressed with the info coming forth.

Mark,
What's not exactly true? Without burying this in a thousand words of statistical data, in your reply here, you speak of the 2 colors of white that Ford used on their 64 pace car program. So what's not true?
Ford's 64 Pace Car program contained cars painted both colors of white. These were the cars the Ford Motor company considered to be in their Pace Car program. It really doesn't matter what todays experts think happened, why it happened, or how it happened that Ford ended up with coupes and convertibles painted 2 different colors of white, yet all falling into the Ford pace car program. The fact is that is what happened. That's what Ford called their "Pace Car program. It does look like it was poorly planned, but it is what happened. Whether Ford built cars specially intended to be pace cars and festival cars, or had to call cars in from existing inventories to fill the ranks, these were the cars the Ford Motor Company chose to fill their needs at Indy.

Whats not exactly true then? My point was that Ford used 2 different colors of cars they considered to be in their pace car program for 64, and that's what happened. Are you trying to discredit all the 64 Festival Cars as to not having been involved in the race, or not to have been important cars because they were not produced with any special numerical production markings? Your Ford buddies from across the country that you mention probably wouldn't agree with that.

Here is a link to a page that has the information on the bottom of the "Color Information" sheet. Both colors you speak of are listed here.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1964-ford-pg03.jpg

Truth - The 64 Ford Pace Car program had Mustang coupes and convertibles painted 2 different colors of white. Slice it, dice it, or try to discredit it as you may, it is still the truth. 

Not exactly true according to mustang sources.  there was only 35 or so Pacecars at the track and they were obtained from production cars already at dealerships around the country.  Only the 2 actual pace cars and the winners cars were specially prepared for use at the track. 

In 1964, Ford had the Galaxie poised to pace the Indianapolis 500. That changed when Mustang madness swept the nation. But Ford had a serious problem: not enough Mustangs to meet consumer demand, much less the added demand of a racing event where more than three dozen convertibles were needed.  Indy 500 officials from the period have SAID that those responsible for the pace car program at Ford were scrambling to find suitably equipped Mustang convertibles prior to the race. To pacify Indy officials, Ford shipped 35 '64 Galaxie 500 convertibles in March, which were replaced by Mustang convertibles early in May.

The 35 Wimbledon White Mustang convertibles varied in the way they were optioned because many of them were sourced from Ford dealers within a sizable radius around Indianapolis. Each of these convertibles was D-code 289-4V-equipped. Interiors were red, white, or blue vinyl. Some had Cruise-O-Matics while others had four-speeds. Each had the Indy 500 graphics made for Ford by 3M.

Ford shipped these convertibles to Louisville, Kentucky, shortly after the race and sold them to dealers with the highest bids. Alderman Ford in Indianapolis successfully bid on a dozen or so of the pace car replicas. Needless to say, these cars sold quickly. What makes them hard to track is their status as run-of-the-mill production units. No special DSO codes or paint color.

While they don't yet know enough about the 35 festival convertibles, they do know something about the three actual Holman-Moody-prepared pace car convertibles built to pace the race. One paced the race. The other two were backup cars. The cars were all painted Wimbledon White. On race day only 2 of these cars actually made the parade lap, as the third ran into mechanical difficulties. Their vehicle identification numbers were 5F08F100240, 5F08F100241, and 5F08F100242, indicating all were 260-2V convertibles. All had significant chassis preparation. Each was fitted with a Holman-Moody-prepared 289ci V-8 engine.  Each of these Mustangs was fitted with grab bars and two-way radios. All three were produced as 260-2V convertibles and shipped to Holman-Moody. One of these cars survives today in Florida, owned by Bruce Weiss. The other two haven't been accounted for.

So, how do the approximately 190 Pace Car White Mustang hardtops fit into the pace car picture? For one thing, the pace car hardtop replicas really have little in common with the 38 Wimbledon White drop-tops at Indy. These pace car hardtops were Pace Car White (Color Code "C", 1964 only), had Trim Code 42 (white with blue appointments) interiors, and were equipped with the "F" code 260-2V V-8 with Cruise-O-Matic transmission.  Note that none of these were actually at the Indianapolis 500, they were just replicas built for general use, just like the vast majority of the Z11's.

The hardtops were produced for the Checkered and Green Flag contests, which were dealer incentives designed to both promote the new Mustang and indicate the Mustang's status as the official Indy 500 pace car for 1964. Each sales district arranged its dealers into groups based on sales volume in the preceding 12 months. A sales objective for April 1964 was established for each dealer in each group. Dealers who exceeded their sales objective by the greatest percentage in its group qualified to compete against all other group winners in the district.

Ford had already decided the total number of winners because the pace car replicas were assembled consecutively in mid-April 1964. The total number of winners, by district, was also predetermined since each of the pace car hardtops had a standard two-digit DSO code on the warranty plate. There were five standard-order DSO code pace car Mustangs per sales district for a total of 180 units. Each sales district determined the allocation of winners based on the best percentage of sales. The very best were declared Checker Flag winners. Second Place winners were Green Flag contest winners. Ford was aiming for an even split between the two contests. But it didn't turn out that way.

Since each sales district had considerable flexibility in conducting their contests and determining winners, the number of winners of each contest was inconsistent among the districts. There were many ties between dealers, particularly small-volume dealers. This created logistics issues across the land. Ford had already produced 180 hardtops for the two contests, but they needed more as a result of the ties. Approximately 10 more Pace Car White hardtops had to be produced in early May to meet the need. They say "approximately 10" because it has never been determined with documentation how many were produced. This is based on available documentation that addresses winning dealers.

Because these additional pace car hardtops were ordered internally by Ford, with no idea who the winning dealers would be at the time, they were ordered as DSO 84 (Home Office Reserve) units.

Checkered Flag winners (105 of them) were invited to Dearborn, Michigan, to pick up their free Mustang pace car hardtops in a nice ceremony with then-Ford Division General Manager Lee Iacocca. Dealers had the option of driving their winnings home or having them shipped. Green Flag winners had to stay home and pay for their prize with a $500 discount.

I would agree that at the current time the Ermine White, cut and buffed, seems to be very likely what the 0- paint on the pace cars was. Though more testing is being conducted to take this out of the "popular opinion" and "best guess" column. 1967 dated Chevrolet, Fisher, or paint supplier docs would be superior, but just don't seem to be there.

The two colors of white being used for 67 pace cars might seem very unlikely, until you examine the 1964 Ford Mustang Indy Pace Car program. Ford Mustangs that were used at the race as pace cars were painted a bright white that matched the Ford pickup trucks. The bright white was the exact same color as the trucks, though Ford re-named the color  "Indy Pace Car white" for the pace cars. Ford also built replica Mustang pace cars in a more cream colored white which was a standard production color known as "Wimbledon white".  Precedent had been set in 1964 to have your true Pace cars match the trucks, and have the replicas a different shade of the same color, white. Did Chevy use 2 colors of white on the pace cars? The document supported truth is not known. That's why the tests continue, to try and take this out of the "best guess" column, and place it firmly in a "test document supported" findings column. Not as good as factory docs, but it might be as good as possible 41+years later.

O-1 probably simply meant "Ermine White, show paint". The other pacers at the track were C-1, meaning Ermine White (as factory delivered). Obviously, they knew the O-1 paint cars were going to be in public display applications.

I highly doubt they wanted two different color white cars at the track (Ermine vs some other white) nor two different repair procedures (enamel vs lacquer), not to mention the problems of even trying to paint enamel in the plant.

Thanks Pat!  Guess I was just looking in the wrong spot. Lot of different technology here. I remember some time back that you had mentioned (on the other channel) you also believed the 0- coding for the paint represented special instructions for the paint.  Always sounded very believeable, but left me with a couple of questions.

I am new here, and don't see the link to send you a PM, could you help me out with that? I have an off topic subject to talk about that concerns a known 68,  - coded evening orchid coupe, a fairly low optioned car.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Steve

Hi Steve, if you look under the members user name you chose to contact you will see three boxes that if you drag your mouse arrow to will pop up profile, email address, and personal message. Its pretty simple.

Pat

it didn't smell like enamel when we sanded it and we painted it wih lacquer and it went on fine.

This is an excellent point Marv brings up. The factory enamels, when aged, have a distinctively different oder when sanded. Wonder what happened to Marv? Sounds like he has an significantly important car. Hope he checks back in.

Mark,

Would you have the broadcast sheet for any of the 0- coded cars you mention that were painted several different colors? Could you share one here?

Steve

Mark,

I couldn't think of a better place to post and share something like that broadcast sheet than right here. Would you consider doing that? Or maybe you would feel more comfortable sending it in an email or PM. That would be great, though I would think the other guys here would like to see it also. Is it an original, or a copy of the original? What a great document to possess, greater yet to share.

If you are not at liberty to divulge this information, would you consider releasing the owners name of the car (in a PM or email for privacy) so I could attempt to contact him and discuss the document and his car with him?

I am new here, and don't see the link to send you a PM, could you help me out with that? I have an off topic subject to talk about that concerns a known 68,  - coded evening orchid coupe, a fairly low optioned car.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Steve

The O on the tag, and on the braodcast sheet (theres really just a dot in the upper and or lower color box on a BBC on a special paint instruction car) was just there as an attention getter that said to check the paperwork for that car.  The O3 PC that I have the body broadcast sheet for specifically says to paint the car per the FSO on the bottom of it.  It probably also identified the part number for the door decals with instructions for them to be placed in the trunk of the car.

Mark,
Thanks for the reply. Up to now, I have never seen any (FSO paperwork) for a pace car. Am assuming you don't have a copy either for a pace car. Would you as share any example (FSO fso paperwork)  that is for one of the many other 0 coded 67's that you have mentioned that were a variety of colors?

Steve

Was informed about this thread, and thought I would offer a response. Would like to say that the article clearly states we are a work in progress, this is stated on page 1. The paint is still being examined and I'm sorry that we do our research out in public. By posting our work in public we feel we are able to operate more as a team, instead of a group of individuals. The team concept seems to work well for us.

As far as beating a dead horse, I agree, I am tired of it too! But I am also tired of so many unanswered questions about the 0-1 paint used on the pace cars. Was the paint enamel or lacquer (speaking of 03C cars)? What color was the white? Can or does the 0 code only indicate a wetsand and buff of the lacquer paint? Until these questions have complete fact based answers, then the horse isn't dead yet.

Quite simply, if it was Ermine white lacquer, then why the 0 code? Looks to me like Secretariat has a couple more laps around the 0 code paint track to me.

Steve