Thought this was illegal ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Camaro-SS-RS/143111614559?hash=item21521df05f:g:Z6cAAOSwdwVcTfZi:rk:12:pf:0
I know this has been discussed before, and in current threads. If paired with a Dynacorn body, is it a federal or state laws that apply ?
Regards,
Steve
QuoteThought this was illegal ?
It is, but as long as ebay gets their cut, they don't care. Too bad. They're an accessory to a felony.
QuoteI know this has been discussed before, and in current threads. If paired with a Dynacorn body, is it a federal or state laws that apply ?
From the DYNACORN (http://dynacornbodies.com/) site:
QuoteA Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.
1. An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority).
2. A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection.
3. A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.
These bodies are intended to save rust or collision damaged vehicles by providing a welded shell to start bolting on parts from your car along with the new parts for the restoration. In most States, an application to build a vehicle from scratch is allowed and outlined. Contact your State motor vehicle division to get the paperwork and instructions from them.
While they state that "An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority)", the buying and selling of VIN plates and Titles is a federal crime. Therefore, you can only transferred the VIN plate if you own the car it's currently attached to. And of course, even this varies from state to state. Some states allow it while others don't.
Ed
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
http://brandnewmusclecar.com/register.html
These guys advertise:
An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part / replacement body (as instructed by your State authority). We can provided all-metal, all-new replacement bodies with original VINs and title paperwork if desired or required. This is optional depending on customer specifications and requirements.
Quote from: william on February 02, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
http://brandnewmusclecar.com/register.html
These guys advertise:
An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part / replacement body (as instructed by your State authority). We can provided all-metal, all-new replacement bodies with original VINs and title paperwork if desired or required. This is optional depending on customer specifications and requirements.
Id be very wary on that 'claim'. Check with the FBI or your state Highway Patrol first. A little back history lesson on re-VINs: during the 1969 model year close, Ford/Shelby wanted to upgrade unsold 1969 Shelby's to 'new' 1970 models. This required the re-VINs supervised by FBI officials. And this was from a known manufacturer, Ford.
Boys, Im just saying be VARY careful on a situation like the ebay auction concerning this matter....
QuoteIm just saying be VARY careful on a situation like the ebay auction concerning this matter....
The ebay auction is a felony, plain and simple.
Ed
Quote from: crossboss on February 02, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
I was in the collision industry. A VIN can be transferred to a replacement body part. Procedures and guidelines vary by state.
Quote from: Sauron327 on February 03, 2019, 07:54:17 AM
Quote from: crossboss on February 02, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
I was in the collision industry. A VIN can be transferred to a replacement body part. Procedures and guidelines vary by state.
You are correct...on a replacement cowl, on the SAME car. That does apply to reattaching it to another car.
Quote from: crossboss on February 03, 2019, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Sauron327 on February 03, 2019, 07:54:17 AM
Quote from: crossboss on February 02, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
I was in the collision industry. A VIN can be transferred to a replacement body part. Procedures and guidelines vary by state.
You are correct...on a replacement cowl, on the SAME car. That does apply to reattaching it to another car.
A Dynacorn body is considered a replacement part. Transferring the VIN depends on state guidelines. People in the collision business have bought brand new truck cabs to replace totalled ones and legally transferred the VIN.
Quote from: Sauron327 on February 03, 2019, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: crossboss on February 03, 2019, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Sauron327 on February 03, 2019, 07:54:17 AM
Quote from: crossboss on February 02, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
I was in the collision industry. A VIN can be transferred to a replacement body part. Procedures and guidelines vary by state.
You are correct...on a replacement cowl, on the SAME car. That does apply to reattaching it to another car.
A Dynacorn body is considered a replacement part. Transferring the VIN depends on state guidelines. People in the collision business have bought brand new truck cabs to replace totalled ones and legally transferred the VIN.
Hmmm...with all due respect, Im sure thats a no-no. Call the FBI and see what their reply is concerning removing/replacing a VIN onto a Dynacorn 'replacement body'. Re-VINs are generally done by your states Highway Patrol office.
Quote from: Sauron327 on February 03, 2019, 07:54:17 AM
Quote from: crossboss on February 02, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Boys,
Its a felony. According to Federal law, anyone who 'alters, tampers, removes/replaces a VIN is considered a felony' That said, would this also apply to re-stampng/re-attaching a known VIN on a 'new' Dynacorn body. Also known as a 're-body'. Just a reminder, Federal law trumps ANY state/local/county penal codes regarding these matters. Here is an example: California has 'legalized' pot, yet according to Federal law, pot is illegal in ALL 50 states.
I was in the collision industry. A VIN can be transferred to a replacement body part. Procedures and guidelines vary by state.
Lots of things are felonys, getting said felony prosecuted is another altogether,,nothing will happen to Ebay or the seller
best we can do is document it for the future if/when someone sells it
Interesting topic!
I found this site with the the US law.
Scott, The type of work you do (collision and restoration), would that fall under section b, 2-b&c?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511
Mike
Quote from: Mike S on February 03, 2019, 12:54:11 PM
Interesting topic!
I found this site with the the US law.
Scott, The type of work you do (collision and restoration), would that fall under section b, 2-b&c?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511
Mike
Affirmative.
If I interpret this correctly, it appears the US law is allowing the state decide what is legal or not.
Scott,
So if a body was either severely damaged in a collision or extensively rusted to the point there is no longer structural integrity, then a VIN can be moved to a new Dynacorn replacement body under sect B, 2-B,C if the state law allows. Is that how it could be done in Connecticut being it sounds like you have done collision work like this in the past? I assume the state would have this documented in the DMV records.
Mike
I made a deal one time on a 1970 chevelle in Kentucky that turned out to be a 71.The guy transfered the vin and the trim tag onto the 71.The only reason he had to recind the deal is he didn't fill out a $7 dollar form stating he did so.I called the state it was a legal swap if he would have done the paperwork.
Boys,
Ok, here is a real scenario that happened several years ago in California: a Mopar resto shop in the San Fernando Valley was raided by the FBI for doing exactly what is being discussed here: VIN swapping. This also happened to another shop (I believe in Texas) that was 'converting' cars into Eleanor Mustangs a few of years ago. The businesses were closed, cars seized, and who knows what happened to customers cars as a result. The charges were multiple felonies, including Federal charges. The Mopar resto shop was well known for turning out fake Hemi cars from 318/383 cars. So, IF you guys think its ok to 'swap' VINs, your just asking for trouble, and NOT worth the hassle. My worthless two cents...
Perhaps California's local law doesn't allow for that type of work to be done legally, or the procedure didn't follow state law, which is why the FBI was involved. Just a guess. But the US code does show it can be left to the state laws and I can only assume at that level, if done legally, it would have to be documented with the DMV.
Quote from: Mike S on February 04, 2019, 11:31:04 AM
Perhaps California's local law doesn't allow for that type of work to be done legally, or the procedure didn't follow state law, which is why the FBI was involved. Just a guess. But the US code does show it can be left to the state laws and I can only assume at that level, if done legally, it would have to be documented with the DMV.
Maybe you are correct. However, my concern is WHY would anyone want to take that chance?
Quote from: Mike S on February 04, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
If I interpret this correctly, it appears the US law is allowing the state decide what is legal or not.
Scott,
So if a body was either severely damaged in a collision or extensively rusted to the point there is no longer structural integrity, then a VIN can be moved to a new Dynacorn replacement body under sect B, 2-B,C if the state law allows. Is that how it could be done in Connecticut being it sounds like you have done collision work like this in the past? I assume the state would have this documented in the DMV records.
Mike
Mike,
I never got involved with a Dynacorn body. I know a tech who did and it needed a lot of mods just as any repro part does. I'd rather deal with rebuilding a GM carcass. Muscle Car Metal in NH does a lot of them. The only original part on some of them is the roof and side structures. Dcorn (a GM licensed restoration part) used to have each state's guidelines listed but no longer.
A tech on another forum was discussing VINs and the DMV inspector came to his shop and handed him the rivets and documented the VIN tag transfer to a late model truck replacement cab. So obviously transfers can be done.
Every state has different guidelines so a blanket statement should not be used.
Quote from: crossboss on February 04, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
Boys,
Ok, here is a real scenario that happened several years ago in California: a Mopar resto shop in the San Fernando Valley was raided by the FBI for doing exactly what is being discussed here: VIN swapping. This also happened to another shop (I believe in Texas) that was 'converting' cars into Eleanor Mustangs a few of years ago. The businesses were closed, cars seized, and who knows what happened to customers cars as a result. The charges were multiple felonies, including Federal charges. The Mopar resto shop was well known for turning out fake Hemi cars from 318/383 cars. So, IF you guys think its ok to 'swap' VINs, your just asking for trouble, and NOT worth the hassle. My worthless two cents...
Unique Performance in Texas went well beyond the limits of simple tag R&I. Far too lengthy to discuss here.