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Author Topic: Reproduction Endura Bumpers are horrible  (Read 6001 times)
DavidS
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« on: September 10, 2012, 08:39:02 AM »

This is the best fit for a $279.95 reproduction 1969 Endura Bumper.  Blech.






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camaronut
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 03:07:39 PM »

Welcome to the world of bad reproduction Camaro parts.

Why make this junk in the first place?Huh
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DavidS
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 03:26:16 PM »

Welcome to the world of bad reproduction Camaro parts.

Why make this junk in the first place?Huh

It's really terrible living in the world of foreign made junk.  The only thing that seems to fit OK so far are the reproduction kick panels.  

note: My clone car is loaded with reproduction parts......my Z gets all the good parts that I can find and pay through the nose for (like original weatherstripping).
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KurtS
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 06:18:49 PM »

What's amazing is how well the original endura bumpers fit.....
They've never made a good repro endura yet - they've been like that for years.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 06:49:58 PM »

I hate to be negative but I hate all repop stuff  !!!     Angry
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DavidS
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 07:42:50 PM »

What's amazing is how well the original endura bumpers fit.....
They've never made a good repro endura yet - they've been like that for years.
It's also amazing that reputable resellers have been selling this stuff for years.  They should be putting warning labels on some of this junk.  

I recently bought an original one that has been hacked up.  The former owner had cut two big chunks out of it to attach tow tabs to their car.  Once the original one is patched up, the repop bumper can go into the dumpster.
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LM69Z28
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 11:35:00 PM »

Just curious as to what materials/product your using to repair the endura bumper. I know GM made an actual repair kit in a can.........."Urethane Bumper Repair kit" #1050951
I have one can but the black paste tube has dried out...............good luck
Michael Kellogg
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 09:17:08 PM »

Evening, Gentlemen -

I wish had started reading posts at CRG years ago - it really goads me into looking for solutions that I have ignored for years upon years. Anyone ever use John @ www.endurabumper.com ? He has some really nice examples of his work on the site, and gave me a rough estimate of repairing my original (jack damaged) Endura bumper for my X77 - price starts around $375.00.
I had some delusions about being able to repair my own for years, even purchasing the aforementioned GM repair kit attached, but I would rather hand this over to a more experienced shop, hopefully like John's. If someone has past experience with this man, please post it.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 08:56:58 AM »

Just curious as to what materials/product your using to repair the endura bumper. I know GM made an actual repair kit in a can.........."Urethane Bumper Repair kit" #1050951
I have one can but the black paste tube has dried out...............good luck
Michael Kellogg
LM69Z28

I was thinking about trying 3M Automix 05883 Plastic Repair Kit on a small area, but after reading Steve's post, I might end up sending it to John at www.endurabumper.com.

The repop bumper is on my clone car which is loaded with repop parts that needed to be modified (like the horrible rear quarter panels and window trim).  The repop bumper might be able to be modified enough to be somewhat OK.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 10:22:35 AM »

I was told the repro bumper will fit better if you buy the correct mounting brackets such as these:

http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/20482/Endura-bumper-brackets-exact/

The difference between the crappy repro brackets and the correct brackets is apparent just looking.  The correct ones have about a 20% grade or slope to the front that are just not there on the crappy ones.  If I had a good one in my hand, I am sure I could modify the crappy one to the correct angle.

Reason I ask is that I have a repro and am wondering if trying to get it to fit, even with the correct brackets is hopeless.  If so, I will just put on a chrome bumper.

Anyone have ACTUAL experience using repro bumper with correct mounting brackets.  I know that generally most repro stuff is pathetic, so I don't need that input.

Thanks for any help.

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DavidS
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 02:59:33 PM »

I was told the repro bumper will fit better if you buy the correct mounting brackets such as these:

http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/20482/Endura-bumper-brackets-exact/

The difference between the crappy repro brackets and the correct brackets is apparent just looking.  The correct ones have about a 20% grade or slope to the front that are just not there on the crappy ones.  If I had a good one in my hand, I am sure I could modify the crappy one to the correct angle.

Reason I ask is that I have a repro and am wondering if trying to get it to fit, even with the correct brackets is hopeless.  If so, I will just put on a chrome bumper.

Anyone have ACTUAL experience using repro bumper with correct mounting brackets.  I know that generally most repro stuff is pathetic, so I don't need that input.

Thanks for any help.



The HBC brackets are the ones that I used.  However, the shop that I had my car at was able to modify the repro bumper to get it to fit better.  It's not as good as an original, but I think it's passable.  If you want, I can post of some pics of how it looks now.  

They had to shave down a few areas on the back of the bumper.  Also, at the corners where the bumper was sticking out, they removed some material on the inside of the bumper (it looked like about 1/2 a golf ball size) and filled it with epoxy while pulling the edges in.  This way, it doesn't look like ears sticking out any more.  

I'm not sure what type of epoxy he used, but I'll find out.
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mark x22
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 05:17:32 PM »

Get the correct mounting hardware kit  EXT-1024 from Heartbeat City when you get the brackets .
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z28z11
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 07:41:10 PM »

I don't want to violate posting rules, but I did list my spare VE3 on eBay this past weekend if anyone is interested in a very intact original. I hope that an owner with a need gets to it before a speculator -

Regards,
Steve
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 10:17:28 PM »

David:

I would appreciate any info you can provide on the fitting of your bumper.  I already have it, along with the crappy looking brackets that came with it.  It looks to me like I can cut a two inch "V" in each bracket, then bend them down to the correct angle and weld them up.  I am a pretty good fabricator, and think I can do that in about 5 min.   The only question for me is how wide to make the
"V" cut.

The other problem with this bumper is the amount of silicone all over it.  I will be cleaing this for hours trying to get it silicone free.  I can see fisheye problems trying to get it painted.  Getting out the acetone tomorrow.

It's always something.

Steve, did your bumper sell?  Semd  me a pm if you still have it.

Lynn
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z28z11
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 10:31:37 PM »

Lynn,

Not sold yet, but still receiving bids as of this afternoon. If you need any bracket pics or measurements let me know - the originals are still mounted to my bumper, and the intermediate brackets are handy ( I also have a spare set of the intermediates I can do pics of if you need them).

Down side of looking at this thing today - realizing that when it's gone, it's gonna be difficult (no, say impossible) to ever replace - I guess I'll have to make do with the chromes -

Regards,
Steve
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 11:55:21 AM »

Bought Steve's bumper (thanks Steve).  Will compare side by side once I get it, and do a little tutorial mayby showing how the repro brackets need modified if it isn't too extensive.

Lynn
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 09:47:51 AM »

Well, I compared Steve's bumber with the original brackets to my repop.  Night and day.  Of course.  BTW, Steve's is even nicer than described.

The biggest problem with the repop in my opinion is that it doesn't wrap far enough around the fender extensions.  You can't make if perfect.

However, it appears a very simple mod (if you can weld) to the inner brackets will at least make it fit OK for a driver quality car.
I do not have time right now, but will post up comparison pics and then some before and after pics when I modify the repop inner brackets to make them at least functional.  Plan to do that before selling the bumper.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2012, 08:23:49 PM »

OK.  Here are pics of the original brackets and the repops side by side.
As you can see, I modified the repops so that they will at least be a functional fit.
I didn't worry about the cosmetic aspect.  Sandblasted and painted black, no one will ever know once installed because they are pretty burried.
They should work fine.
The pics show the progression of the modification.  One odd cut, bend to match the factory brackets, cut and place a small piece of 1/2 by 1/8 steel to fit the void, weld it in and grind the welds down.  Normally wouldn't have to grind so much, but having issues with the voltage setting on the welder.
Can only post a few pics at a time, so more pics follow.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2012, 08:24:56 PM »

More:
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2012, 08:28:30 PM »

And again:

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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 08:29:19 PM »

Again:
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2012, 08:31:39 PM »

Sorry for the blurry ones.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2012, 08:32:25 PM »

Last two:
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427-KING
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2012, 08:45:01 PM »

Lynn, thanks for posting these pics etc . I have to tackle putting one on tommorrow AM and im sure your pics will come in handy.
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tmodel66
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2012, 09:33:10 PM »

Looks good Lynn. Are you taking measurements as you go or would it be one of those jobs you just have to play with it as you go to get it right?
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Daniel  
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2012, 11:05:27 PM »

Lynn,

I had no idea the repop brackets were so far off. No wonder people complain about the repop bumper - no way you could make it work with so big a difference in mounting datums/locations. Thanks for showing these to everyone.

I'm slightly embarassed that the originals didn't get cleaned up before shipping. The part number on top of the one bracket surface is a nice detail that people should notice - they really don't say RH or LH like the repops -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2012, 11:30:08 PM »

does anyone repair the originals? my bumper has a tear.
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Chris
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2012, 01:24:56 AM »

Lynn,

I had no idea the repop brackets were so far off. No wonder people complain about the repop bumper - no way you could make it work with so big a difference in mounting datums/locations. Thanks for showing these to everyone.

I'm slightly embarassed that the originals didn't get cleaned up before shipping. The part number on top of the one bracket surface is a nice detail that people should notice - they really don't say RH or LH like the repops -

Regards,
Steve

No problem Steve.  I was thrilled when I received your bumper.  It was much nicer than described and better than the pics made it look.  I plan to blast the brackets with fine sand so the numbers will still show.  It will be about 2 minutes of work, and I am blasting a few other things this week anyway.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2012, 01:30:29 AM »

Looks good Lynn. Are you taking measurements as you go or would it be one of those jobs you just have to play with it as you go to get it right?

I did not measure since I had those originals to compare as I went along.  For some of the comparison I was able to use the opposite side bracket as a mirrror image.

I do have an inclinometer out in the garage somewhere, and will get a precise measurement of the angle for anyone wanting to do this job.  I think that angle is the most critical, and obviously what is missing on the repop brackets.

If you make the cut pretty close to where I made it in the pics, then you will just need to bend so the spread at the top is just over 1/2 inch.  Of course, I realize if you make the cut with a wheel or cut off saw, then your initial gap will be bigger.  I used a hack saw.  So... just to make sure everyone else can get it right without having an original to go by, I will post the finished angle.
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KurtS
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« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2012, 03:39:20 AM »

The holes in the repro brackets don't appear to be in the same position. Hopefully they are close enough.....
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Kurt S
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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2012, 08:59:46 AM »

Chris/crobjones2 - 

I ran across this guy and posted his contact info earlier in the thread - I have my original to send to him at some point (when I can afford it !) - I could probably repair it, but this gentleman seems to have a good handle on how to fix them correctly:

"I wish had started reading posts at CRG years ago - it really goads me into looking for solutions that I have ignored for years upon years. Anyone ever use John @ www.endurabumper.com ? He has some really nice examples of his work on the site, and gave me a rough estimate of repairing my original (jack damaged) Endura bumper for my X77 - price starts around $375.00.
I had some delusions about being able to repair my own for years, even purchasing the aforementioned GM repair kit attached, but I would rather hand this over to a more experienced shop, hopefully like John's. If someone has past experience with this man, please post it."

Regards,
Steve

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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2012, 09:11:16 AM »

I'd say your damage probably looks similar to this - I call this jack damage, others might call it a not-well-thought-out-design-flaw. This was the damage on the bumper when I bought the car in '73 - I never found a solution for it (and really didn't worry about it) until later years - my spare sold, so now I'm in the same hunt for a fix that several people are. If you do use the Endura guy, post your results if you don't mind -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2012, 10:33:32 AM »

Sure appears to be a 'poor design' to me.... but of course, this is looking back after many years, so lots of design fail that test...
PS.  I always thought if I liked the look of a 'painted bumper', I'd think about stripping the chrome from a regular bumper, and then painting it body color...   Has anyone else done this?

Gary
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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2012, 11:42:52 AM »

Lynn where are the numbers located on yours?  Mine are powder coated and that might have the numbers filled in. Big R and L on top/front though. Also are these brackets causing all the problems with these repop bumpers or are there other issues?
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Daniel  
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2012, 12:32:06 PM »

The only photos left of a pair I had.
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2012, 12:33:13 PM »

PS.  I always thought if I liked the look of a 'painted bumper', I'd think about stripping the chrome from a regular bumper, and then painting it body color...   Has anyone else done this?

Gary

Gary,

Chip Foose does this all the time.  You can Google images of his cars to check it out.

Paul
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tmodel66
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2012, 12:43:49 PM »

Thanks Scott. That's where mine have the big L and R stamped. Maybe mine are service replacements.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 12:49:05 PM »

I can't recall if these had L&R on them also. Been a long time since I had them.

Many people paint their bumpers. EDP only bumpers are available but I don't know how well they fit. Stripping the chrome on a core is best, some lightly blast existing chrome and epoxy.
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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2012, 01:02:50 PM »

The HBC brackets are exactly like the originals however the repro bumper still won't fit correctly...

AS A SIDE NOTE!!!
Flexible repair material needs to be mixed in PRECISE QUANTITIES (I use a scale which measures .00 grams)
I did a little experiment and mixed in ratios other than the recommended 1:1 and only by fractions.

(1.0:1.1) 1.0g base - 1.1g hardener = durometer(hardness/flexibility) feels much higher than at recommended 1:1 (more brittle)
(1.1:1.0) 1.1g base - 1.0g hardener = durometer feels much closer to 1:1 however it seemed to cure out over a period of days vs 24 hours.

YOU CAN NOT EYEBALL THIS and expect to get results which are consistent.  

I use a few hundreths of a gram less hardener than base at most and have had great results.

 
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2012, 01:27:50 PM »

3M, Lord Fusor and SEM all make auto mixing dispensors. Same auto mixers when using panel adhesive. Many years ago we used the individual tubes when repairing bumper covers.  Follow the directions and there will be no issues.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2012, 02:33:58 PM »

3M, Lord Fusor and SEM all make auto mixing dispensors. Same auto mixers when using panel adhesive. Many years ago we used the individual tubes when repairing bumper covers.  Follow the directions and there will be no issues.

I sold supplies to body shops everywhere down the ohio valley and south east for 3 years and I can say rarely have I found a shop which follows directions 100% of the time Auto dispenser or not. Nor have they done any testing to determine what if any effects their tampering does to the products. It is always that's the way I was taught or it cures out faster when it's damp or etc.
The scientists creating these resins are using precise quantities same should apply for the users.

Maybe I should have said don't mess with the instructions, and follow them to the letter.
I was trying to make the point that tampering with the ratios in flexible materials can produce drastically different results so please take this into consideration when attempting any repairs of this nature.

Now that is a lawyer answer.. I have read way too much law... lol

 
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2012, 03:08:53 PM »

James, I've been in the autobody and custom paint business for over twenty years. I always follow the TDS. Many hobbiests experiment or don't read the TDS, if they even know what one is. Providing a "lawyerly" or technical answer is exactly what's appropriate in this business. There are many professionals who are very picky about their work and product use, and there are those as you stated that are not.
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lynnbilodeau
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« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2012, 03:16:12 PM »

The holes in the repro brackets don't appear to be in the same position. Hopefully they are close enough.....

I thought about that too Kurt.  I ran long 3/8 bolts through both sets of holes and it looks pretty darn close.  Of course, there is some slop involved.
It is hard to tell because the repop brackets are not exactly the same size.  I figured one could enlarge the holes on the repop brackets if needed.
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« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 04:16:13 AM »

I use a few hundreths of a gram less hardener than base at most and have had great results.
James,
Could you confirm which product you'd recommend for repairing cracks in an original VE3 bumper? I have had 3M Automix 05887 recommended to me, but noticed a reply on page 1 of this thread that mentioned 05883.
Cheers, Tim
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Tim - New South Wales, Australia
04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP
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