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Author Topic: Introduce myself an my car  (Read 4462 times)
ChronoX
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« on: August 24, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »

Hi together

My Name is André and i am new to this great forum. i live in switzerland and i am a proud owner of a 67 RS/SS camaro about 2 weeks ago.

Following some details, information and questions about my car.
VIN, TRIM and Engine i have decoded as best i could.
The transmission is sadly a 69. i am searching for an original 67 transmission M20 Muncie.
Rear Axle, i don,t know, because the car ist still in FL and waiting for shipping to Switzerland.

Question:
- If i will found a 67 transmission, can someone explain how the transmission code has to look --> P7Add (dd = day) or similar??
- Where can i find a 67 transmission??


VIN: 124377L137046
1 = Chevrolet
2 = the vehicle model, Camaro
4 = engine type 8cyl
37 = body type Sport Coupe
7 = year of manufacture 1967
L = plant of manufacture Los Angeles, CA
137046 = vehicles unique identification number.

Decode Camaro Trim Tag:
01 = January, 1967, the month car was built.
D = Fourth week of the month.
P68 = is a internal LOS Angeles Plant assembly code.
12637 = Deluxe interior coupe body style type.
LOS = Vehicle was assembled at the Los Angeles, California assembly plant.
14857 = Unique body sequence number assigned at the assembly plant.
765 = Deluxe Black bucket seat interior.
Z = Bucket seats without headrests.
C = Ermine White lower body paint color.
2 = Black vinyl top upper body color.
Breakdown of Group 1 Options:
W = A02 Soft Ray tinted glass, windshield only. Cost $21.10, total production = 81,998..
L = A67 Folding rear seat. Cost $31.60, total production = 17,993.
Breakdown of Group 2 Options:
L = M20 4-speed manual wide ratio transmission. Cost $184.35, total production = 45,806.
G = D55 Console with floor mounted shifter, storage compartment, rear seat ashtray and courtesy light. Cost $47.40, total production = 129,477.
Breakdown of Group 3 Options:
D = U29 Under dash courtesy lights. Cost $4.25, total production = 23,691.
L = Z22 Rally Sport Package including Z21 option plus full width grill with concealed headlights, bright lower body side moldings, RS grille emblem (or SS when options combined), parking/turn signal lights located below front bumper, reverse lights located below bumper in rear. Cost $105.35, total production = 64,842.
Breakdown of Group 4 Options:
P = L48 Super Sport with base 350cid, 295hp 4bbl V-8 engine. Cost $210.65,
Total production = 29,270.
*Note: On Norwood built Camaros the 4P code may indicate that the vehicle in question was either equipped form the factory with an L30 275hp 327cid engine and 4 speed manual transmission (L under group 2 options) or for the RPO L48 295hp 350cid SS option.
Breakdown of Group 5 Options:
Y = A39 Deluxe front & rear seat belts. Cost $6.35, total production = 51,247.

Engine
Partial Vin: 7L137046
Block Casting Code: 3892657
Assembly Code: V0116MT
V = Flint, Michigan assembly plant
01 = January
16 = day 16
MT = 1967 Camaro 350cid, 4BC, with K19 (smog) A.I.R. 295hp, L48

Thanks for your support and excuse my bad english  Grin
André
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william1
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 09:18:53 AM »

welcome, looks like you have been doing your homework, i cant answer question but the guys here are very helpful.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 11:25:05 AM »

Welcome, I am a semi-neebie, and very happy to be a part of this forum.
I have to say, as I have said in the past, I am not an expert in THIS field by any shape of the word. And doing my best to learn as much as possible. AND be able to retain it.

 But this cowl tag is not looking right to me. I hope I am wrong. William, Paul, Mark, JohnZ, Marty and all the guys will straighten it out as soon as they chime in. I wish interested parties sent pictures and check in BEFORE they buy. Again, don't panic, you will know very soon.... Danny
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lakeholme
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 12:54:41 PM »

[quote author=dannystarr link=topic=9930.msg72990#msg72990 date=134582550
But this cowl tag is not looking right to me. I hope I am wrong. William, Paul, Mark, JohnZ, Marty and all the guys will straighten it out as soon as they chime in. I wish interested parties sent pictures and check in BEFORE they buy. Again, don't panic, you will know very soon.... Danny
[/quote]

I've sent Ed a PM asking him to look at this.
I've got a question about the rivets.
Like Danny, I'm only saying this needs a closer look.
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 02:37:08 PM »

If you need a 67 trans call Danny at 336 621 4327 in NC or the 4speedman at 803 581 5466 in SC. His web is www.4speedman.com. They have got 4 speeds and their work is top notch. I would think they are both in Carlisle PA for the vette show this weekend. They both takes trades also if the freight would not be so much.
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 02:46:41 PM »

Welcome!  Yours is pretty close to mine (I have 01C) and some similar options...
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 03:40:58 PM »

 Welcome Andre'

  Does the partial engine VIN match the hidden VIN? Look below the windshield area under the cowl vent panel closely for the stamped hidden VIN.
What is the block casting date? Can you post pictues of the engine pad?

Mike
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 06:39:53 PM »

Welcome to the forum, sounds like a nice car.

Where in Florida is it? If it is in the upper part I may be able to pay it a visit for you.
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 07:30:27 PM »

You have done an amazing job at decoding this car; assuming most of it is correct. One question; why are you putting so much effort into a First Gen that doesn’t have a numbers matching transmission? If I were looking for something in Switzerland to be shipped to the United States, my first requirement/priority would be; is it a fully documented numbers matching drivetrain?  By looking at your post, one would think this is very important to you as well.

And...what Mike said X2 about the E-Pad.
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 09:36:37 PM »

Tag's been off the car (reinstalled with standard hardware store rivets), but it looks okay to me. I will of course bow to Kurt or Daniel's expertise.

Can you post a picture of the engine pad?

Ed
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 10:23:46 PM »

Just as an FYI, I have the M20 Muncie from 7L137175 and it is stamped P7T06 (Dec 6, 1966).
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 11:00:57 PM »

There was a Muncie on Ebay (10/2011) out of 7L135413 that the seller claimed was stamped P7A06...

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8685.0

Paul
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ChronoX
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 02:13:01 AM »

Welcome, I am a semi-neebie, and very happy to be a part of this forum.
I have to say, as I have said in the past, I am not an expert in THIS field by any shape of the word. And doing my best to learn as much as possible. AND be able to retain it.

 But this cowl tag is not looking right to me. I hope I am wrong. William, Paul, Mark, JohnZ, Marty and all the guys will straighten it out as soon as they chime in. I wish interested parties sent pictures and check in BEFORE they buy. Again, don't panic, you will know very soon.... Danny
[quote author=dannystarr link=topic=9930.msg72990#msg72990 date=134582550
But this cowl tag is not looking right to me. I hope I am wrong. William, Paul, Mark, JohnZ, Marty and all the guys will straighten it out as soon as they chime in. I wish interested parties sent pictures and check in BEFORE they buy. Again, don't panic, you will know very soon.... Danny

I've sent Ed a PM asking him to look at this.
I've got a question about the rivets.
Like Danny, I'm only saying this needs a closer look.
[/quote]

hi, many thanks, i appreciate your help, but i hope you are wrong and the cowl is OK ;-)
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ChronoX
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 02:19:47 AM »

Welcome Andre'

  Does the partial engine VIN match the hidden VIN? Look below the windshield area under the cowl vent panel closely for the stamped hidden VIN.
What is the block casting date? Can you post pictues of the engine pad?

Mike

Hi Mike

I will check that as soon as i can. I will travel to Destin FL at 09/07/2012 where my car is waiting.
thanks for the hint.

Regards
André
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ChronoX
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 02:24:27 AM »

Welcome to the forum, sounds like a nice car.

Where in Florida is it? If it is in the upper part I may be able to pay it a visit for you.

Hi

car stays in Destin, i will arrive destin at 09/07/2012 ;-)

Thanks
André
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ChronoX
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 02:41:25 AM »

You have done an amazing job at decoding this car; assuming most of it is correct. One question; why are you putting so much effort into a First Gen that doesn’t have a numbers matching transmission? If I were looking for something in Switzerland to be shipped to the United States, my first requirement/priority would be; is it a fully documented numbers matching drivetrain?  By looking at your post, one would think this is very important to you as well.

And...what Mike said X2 about the E-Pad.

Hi

Thanks for your compliment and your legitimate questions i appreciate that.

- It is not easy to finde a full documented car.
- Money ;-) Top matching cars are expensive
- I decided that minimum 1 Drivetrain Part has to match, in my case is the engine.
- i dont live in the USA, so ist is very difficult to find a car over the sea from switzerland.

Regards
André
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ChronoX
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 02:44:59 AM »

Just as an FYI, I have the M20 Muncie from 7L137175 and it is stamped P7T06 (Dec 6, 1966).

Many thanks!
André
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ChronoX
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2012, 03:01:38 AM »

Many thanks for your warm welcome!

Enclosed some pics
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:20:48 AM by ChronoX » Logged
ChronoX
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 03:15:31 AM »

more pics... Wink

and yes, there is a lot to do, to get a original looking car.

- black vinyl reinstall
- complete exhaust system
- finding matching transmission
- removing rear and front wing
- and a lot more....
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mopar346
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 04:52:50 AM »

Destin is about an hour and half/2 hours away if you need anything just say the word.
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2012, 06:31:03 AM »

http://trimtags.com/rivets.html

Use the link to see the correct rivets, where to buy them, and how to install.
As to the tag itself, as Ed says above, it looks okay. You just need to properly install it.
it is a good looking car. Congratulations!
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Phillip
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 07:51:31 AM »

Andre’ – You are correct about the $$$ but when it's all said and done I'm sure this '67 won't be cheap either. Wink

If you don’t mind me asking; who verified the engine is original to the car? And, I cannot stress this enough; have the seller send you clear pics of the engine pad so you can post them on this thread. The pad should be as clear as, or close to as clear as, the one I’ve posted below, without paint.
 
I hope you don’t think I’m meddling too much. I just don’t want you to get burned.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 12:57:25 PM »

Andre’ – You are correct about the $$$ but when it's all said and done I'm sure this '67 won't be cheap either. Wink

If you don’t mind me asking; who verified the engine is original to the car? And, I cannot stress this enough; have the seller send you clear pics of the engine pad so you can post them on this thread. The pad should be as clear as, or close to as clear as, the one I’ve posted below, without paint.
  
I hope you don’t think I’m meddling too much. I just don’t want you to get burned.


No problem, you do not meddling me, it's very kind your care.

I am absolutly with you, it is very important to verify what you bought.
In this case i've trusted the seller, he owned the car for 13 years an wrote me in a mail the engine pad codes.
Not very clever i know, so don't denounce me.

So, i have no pic at the moment, but when i stay at destin, i will check de engine pad as my first task and will post a pic i this thread.

till then, keep one's fingers crossed for so, that the seller told the truth.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 05:32:18 PM »

Andre’ – There are several reasons why a pic of the engine pad is so important. One, there are several sellers who say their car has a numbers matching engine/Drivetrain not knowing they might be misleading a prospective buyer. Two, which is more often the case, a seller knowingly attempts fraud. And three (the most important), the experts on this site can spot a re-stamp a mile away (or the real thing). Either way you will have peace-of-mind knowing CRG has evaluated this portion of the car for you, or any other part for that matter.
 
In the mean time, here is an excellent link/source you can use to study-up on engine stamps.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml

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jacmac
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2012, 07:08:14 PM »

Very nice car Andre,I hope the engine pad checks out ok!!
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2012, 08:08:46 AM »

If you don't get it by the end of the week there might not be a car. Looks like Isaac is gonna make a visit about Wednesday.

It occurred to me after I post we have a member in Destin, I Fire Chief or Captian. I can't think of his user name but seems like a nice guy, I'm sure he would help if needed. And I am serious, if you need anything when youa re in Florida just hallow 850-508-7357.

At the least make sure you go to McGuire's Pub jsut over the bridge in Ft. Walton when you are in Florida.
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lakeholme
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2012, 01:44:07 PM »

That's Captain John... You could send him a PM:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3628
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2012, 02:07:08 PM »

Hey guys, working this weekend and getting ready for a hurricane.  I'm sorry but I have never seen this
 car in Destin.   If you would like give me more information and I would be glad to check it for you.  The next few days maybe busy for me though.  
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I'm a COWBOYS fan.
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« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2012, 08:10:29 PM »

John- Looks like Isaac has his site's set on you guys. Stay safe!  Smiley
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mopar346
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2012, 08:36:22 PM »

We'll be thinking about you, we are far enough east to probalby miss anything nasty from this.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2012, 02:33:19 AM »

Very nice car Andre,I hope the engine pad checks out ok!!

Thanks  Smiley
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ChronoX
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2012, 02:39:56 AM »

If you don't get it by the end of the week there might not be a car. Looks like Isaac is gonna make a visit about Wednesday.

It occurred to me after I post we have a member in Destin, I Fire Chief or Captian. I can't think of his user name but seems like a nice guy, I'm sure he would help if needed. And I am serious, if you need anything when youa re in Florida just hallow 850-508-7357.

At the least make sure you go to McGuire's Pub jsut over the bridge in Ft. Walton when you are in Florida.

I hope Isaac will miss FL. Don't care about the car, the people are more important.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2012, 02:45:54 AM »

Hey guys, working this weekend and getting ready for a hurricane.  I'm sorry but I have never seen this
 car in Destin.   If you would like give me more information and I would be glad to check it for you.  The next few days maybe busy for me though. 

Thanks, the car is origin from Freeland MI and still not longer than 3 weeks in FL based.
My mate stores the car in his garage.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2012, 11:46:52 AM »

QUESTION to the experts.

Starting position:
Car build period was:
01 = January, 1967, the month car was built.
D = Fourth week of the month.
That means dates between: Monday 01-23-67 to Sunnday 01-29-67 correct?

What date was exactely stamped on my original 67 transmission for my car?
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ChronoX
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« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2012, 02:58:52 PM »

Andre’ – You are correct about the $$$ but when it's all said and done I'm sure this '67 won't be cheap either. Wink

If you don’t mind me asking; who verified the engine is original to the car? And, I cannot stress this enough; have the seller send you clear pics of the engine pad so you can post them on this thread. The pad should be as clear as, or close to as clear as, the one I’ve posted below, without paint.
  
I hope you don’t think I’m meddling too much. I just don’t want you to get burned.


here it is...

17L137046  V0116MT
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 04:00:02 PM »

I am not sure. I have some input, but I will wait to see what the experts have to say before I comment as I may be wrong.

Very nice car though. I hope it does check out.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2012, 04:11:23 PM »

The only way I would be able to give you my opinion one way or another is if that thick layer of paint is removed from the pad. Other-wise someone else who has access to the data base will have to make the call by comparing fonts for your model; possibly Kurt/Ed/Mark.
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« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2012, 04:38:20 PM »

Yes, please remove the paint. DON'T use a screwdriver, sandpaper, grinder, wire brush, etc... DO use paint remover and a rag. We need to see the machining marks under the paint.

Ed
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ChronoX
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« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2012, 11:52:12 PM »

OK, i will do that as soon as i am in FL.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2012, 10:48:36 AM »

QUESTION to the experts.

Starting position:
Car build period was:
01 = January, 1967, the month car was built.
D = Fourth week of the month.
That means dates between: Monday 01-23-67 to Sunnday 01-29-67 correct?

What date was exactely stamped on my original 67 transmission for my car?
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« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2012, 01:39:03 PM »

If that car didn't work out, i have seen some nice camaros on Ebay and i think on camaros.net in Florida recently.
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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2012, 07:09:10 PM »

QUESTION to the experts.

Starting position:
Car build period was:
01 = January, 1967, the month car was built.
D = Fourth week of the month.
That means dates between: Monday 01-23-67 to Sunday 01-29-67 correct?

What date was exactly stamped on my original 67 transmission for my car?


  That date is when the build period started. Figure a few days afterwards it was completed providing it didn't get pulled to the side for anything out of the norm. I haven't looked at the Julian date calculator to see if your day dates are accurate. As an example of a 'period' my 67 has a 4B date on the trim tag and the UOIT shows a date of April 13th. Almost at the end of that period.
   But, don't get hung up on the tranny date stamp. The date stamped could have been several weeks before the car build date and sat in inventory before being used. The fact that it will not be the original tranny will not make any "P" date any more valuable unless you happen to find the real case with the VIN stamped in it. Most cars today do not have their original trannys so it will not impact the value of the car much at all if you plan on selling it later.
  Don't worry about the tranny and just enjoy the car while you have your health and some $$$$ in your pocket. Life is short!

Mike
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« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 07:12:32 PM »

Andre’- There is no way of knowing exactly what was stamped on your original transmission. What I can say is there were 45,806 M20’s sold in ’67. More than were sold in ’68 & ’69. My point is they were flying off the shelves so the date should be within one month or less from your cars January build date; the closer the better (please KIM, this is where I'd like to see the date for a tranny but it wasn't always the case). I too have an L48 (TH350) which was built the 1st week in Dec. ’68 and its transmission is dated November 14.

Two members offered info on transmissions that would both work for your purpose; Jon & Paul. If any members would know what transmissions would qualify it would certainly be them. Check out some of their past posts and you’ll see what I mean.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 07:43:53 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2012, 07:14:51 PM »

If that car didn't work out, i have seen some nice camaros on Ebay and i think on camaros.net in Florida recently.

I'm leaning towards this being a legit stamp. Just want to get a closer look at the pad.
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« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2012, 08:28:39 PM »

FYI I have a new rebuilt P7P 4 speed. No miles never installed.
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« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2012, 09:08:15 PM »

If that car didn't work out, i have seen some nice camaros on Ebay and i think on camaros.net in Florida recently.

I'm leaning towards this being a legit stamp. Just want to get a closer look at the pad.
Andre’- There is no way of knowing exactly what was stamped on your original transmission. What I can say is there were 45,806 M20’s sold in ’67. More than were sold in ’68 & ’69. My point is they were flying off the shelves so the date should be within one month or less from your cars January build date; the closer the better (please KIM, this is where I'd like to see the date for a tranny but it wasn't always the case). I too have an L48 (TH350) which was built the 1st week in Dec. ’68 and its transmission is dated November 14.

Two members offered info on transmissions that would both work for your purpose; Jon & Paul. If any members would know what transmissions would qualify it would certainly be them. Check out some of their past posts and you’ll see what I mean.


Andre', I agree with Marty on both counts.  By any chance is the seller providing you with any original paperwork or the POP?

While the original question was about a 69, read Williams comments in the following thread:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9787.0
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Phillip
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« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2012, 02:53:20 AM »

FYI I have a new rebuilt P7P 4 speed. No miles never installed.

Many thanks Daniel, should the need arise I will remember this offer, same to Jon & Paul.
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« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2012, 03:35:53 AM »

QUESTION to the experts.

Starting position:
Car build period was:
01 = January, 1967, the month car was built.
D = Fourth week of the month.
That means dates between: Monday 01-23-67 to Sunday 01-29-67 correct?

What date was exactly stamped on my original 67 transmission for my car?


  That date is when the build period started. Figure a few days afterwards it was completed providing it didn't get pulled to the side for anything out of the norm. I haven't looked at the Julian date calculator to see if your day dates are accurate. As an example of a 'period' my 67 has a 4B date on the trim tag and the UOIT shows a date of April 13th. Almost at the end of that period.
   But, don't get hung up on the tranny date stamp. The date stamped could have been several weeks before the car build date and sat in inventory before being used. The fact that it will not be the original tranny will not make any "P" date any more valuable unless you happen to find the real case with the VIN stamped in it. Most cars today do not have their original trannys so it will not impact the value of the car much at all if you plan on selling it later.
  Don't worry about the tranny and just enjoy the car while you have your health and some $$$$ in your pocket. Life is short!

Mike

Mike - Many thanks again for your commitment!
I know that it is almost impossible to find the original transmission. Like a win in the lottery.
That is why i am searching only for a "date correct" muncie M20, to replace the installed 69 Muncie with Hurst shifter.
But you are absolutly right with de $$$$ an the health ;-)
So, i am just collecting information about the transmission in this great forum to achieve a correct replacement at some point.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2012, 03:42:00 AM »

OK, thank you guys, semms there is no closer connection, function or rule between the build date an the transmission date, exept the transmission date has to bee bevor the build date period.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2012, 03:52:35 AM »


Andre', I agree with Marty on both counts.  By any chance is the seller providing you with any original paperwork or the POP?

While the original question was about a 69, read Williams comments in the following thread:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9787.0

Unfortunately, no paperwork, POP or Buildsheet.
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ChronoX
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« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2012, 03:58:17 AM »

Welcome Andre'

  Does the partial engine VIN match the hidden VIN? Look below the windshield area under the cowl vent panel closely for the stamped hidden VIN.
What is the block casting date? Can you post pictues of the engine pad?

Mike

Now i can say, affirmed VIN and "hidden" VIN match Smiley (checked below the windshield area under the cowl vent panel) no photo possible.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2012, 04:52:40 PM »

ChronoX, you actually can get a picture of the passenger cowl hidden vin. My trick is I use soap stone. They use it to mark steel when cutting and fabricating. It is very thin and will fit between the louvers. You have to be easy with it cause it is brittle. But make sure you clean the area first with pressured water or carb clean er something. Then let dry and stick the stone down there and fill up the numbers with it by dragging it back and forth accross the area. Then lightly blow the excess away between the letters. With your mouth, NOT compressed air. And presto, you are ready for high lighted pictures.... Danny
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ChronoX
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« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2012, 11:49:21 AM »

better pic of my cowl tag incl. rivets
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lakeholme
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« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2012, 01:04:52 PM »

From the picture the right rivet looks correct, but the left one is incorrect.
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