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Author Topic: Engine painting poll  (Read 2751 times)
NoYenko
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« on: August 12, 2012, 12:56:38 PM »

I was at a car show with my 70 chevelle and someone commented on my by pass should not be painted. That didn't really bother me but it brought up a sore point I have had with judging in the past. Twice I lost points because I was told the by pass hose should not be painted. One of the judges said I had too much paint on my exhaust manifolds, but also told me my original 772 fan blade was made in 1972 so I just ignored his opinions. I worked on these cars when they were fairly new and worked on many original corvettes and distinctly remember the by pass hoses on CAST IRON manifold cars were fully painted. The paint did not adhere to the rubber hose so after 40 years only the clamps and part of the hose has paint remaining on it. Aluminum intakes had a mask that also covered part of the by pass hose but that's a different animal. Last night I got view an Original owner 1966 427 Vette that is one of the most untouched cars I have seen in many years. Her car shows paint on both ends of the hose.This is a NCRS awarded car. The B&W photo is from Chevrolet archives and clearly shows the hose painted. Another archive from VN shows the how BB exhaust manifolds were painted. I will also post how I painted my engine and would like to get comments, positive or not, if you feel that I did it correctly. This engine has not run in 18 years so more paint will probably flake off after I start it.
Thanks for your time. George.
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NoYenko
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 12:57:58 PM »

Archive photos
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NoYenko
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 01:02:04 PM »

Pictures off chevelle site, 2nd picture is LS6, 3rd picture is mine
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NoYenko
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 01:04:33 PM »

Complete engine
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Mike S
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 02:29:18 PM »

 It's hard to argue a point that is very subjective with someone who may not be entirely educated in the process back then. Looking back at that time it was dependant on the person applying the paint to how far they wanted to go with coverage. Besides the bypass hose that was on the block when painted, the exhaust manifolds and bell housings (manual cars) and distributor clamp coverage were entirely up to the painter.
  I have my entire bypass hose painted and never got docked points when I showed my car many years ago. I had a discussion with a person just last week about the Camaro build process and I told him the early Camaros' front end sheet metal was painted by Chevy and the main body by Fisher. He still doesn't believe me that was how it was done  Sad

Seeing the archice picture I may print that out just in case I encounter that situation like yours.

Mike
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JohnZ
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 12:52:11 PM »

Your photos look fine to me. Iron-intake big-blocks didn't get any masking, and the bypass hose was pretty much completely painted; aluminum-intake big-blocks did get a mask, and their bypass hoses will show somewhat less paint than on an iron-intake car. Tonawanda painted the big-block engine with the exhaust manifolds in place, and they had lots of paint, as shown by the photo on the Camaro assembly line. Flint V-8 (small-blocks), on the other hand, installed the exhaust manifolds AFTER engine painting starting in 1965, so post-'64 Flint-built small-block exhaust manifolds won't show any paint.

Have your buddy read my "1st Generation Camaro Assembly Process" report if he doesn't believe how the body and sheet metal were painted; the Fisher Body/Car Division assembly plants painted the body and front sheet metal in different plants for 50 years.  Smiley

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 01:28:08 PM »

Interesting I though all of the manifolds were cast iron color. I will have to remember that if I ever paint mine.
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NoYenko
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 05:22:36 PM »

Guys, thanks for the input. John I really appreciate your comments, that means allot coming from someone who oversaw or implemented operations like these at the plant. We are lucky to have you on board. George.
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 06:58:45 PM »

What is interesting is that in Jerry's book appendix E component color and plating chart shows the exhause manifolds as natural cast iron finish. Is painting them strictly for big block applications? I have had several 67-72 chevy trucks and always coated the exhaust mainfolds the cast iron gray color. This is the first time I have seen them painted orange. 
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JohnZ
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 09:31:28 AM »

What is interesting is that in Jerry's book appendix E component color and plating chart shows the exhause manifolds as natural cast iron finish. Is painting them strictly for big block applications? I have had several 67-72 chevy trucks and always coated the exhaust mainfolds the cast iron gray color. This is the first time I have seen them painted orange. 

Small-block exhaust manifolds were natural unpainted cast iron. Big-block exhaust manifolds were painted on the engine, but most of it burned off in the first hour of operation (the resulting smoke was a problem, so Tonawanda changed their process at some point in the 70's and installed the big-block exhaust manifolds AFTER engine painting).
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 10:50:46 AM »

So them would painting the manifolds with a Vht orange or ceramic powder coat so the color does not burn off be considered correct? I think I will just leave mine alone oxidized for now.
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william
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 04:35:12 PM »

This is a photo of an L48 engine in a '69 Nova SS, taken at the dealership in 1969. Must have been a Tonawanda engine as they painted with manifolds attached. Tonawanda did not build 302s.

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NoYenko
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 07:07:35 AM »

William nice picture. I think I have some old french locks off a small block manifold that have orange paint on them. Mickey I had my manifolds ceramic coated in a dark cast iron color then painted them orange. I  hope that as the paint burns off it will show dark iron color instead of rust. The picture below is from a 27 mile LS6 and you can see how quickly the paint burned off. Credit for taking the photo goes to (704EVER2008's). George.
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 12:49:52 PM »

William nice picture. I think I have some old french locks off a small block manifold that have orange paint on them. Mickey I had my manifolds ceramic coated in a dark cast iron color then painted them orange. I  hope that as the paint burns off it will show dark iron color instead of rust. The picture below is from a 27 mile LS6 and you can see how quickly the paint burned off. Credit for taking the photo goes to (704EVER2008's). George.

George that is a good idea with the coating and paint. It will be interesting to see how well it will last.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 07:56:52 PM »

Also notice the engine lift brackets being natural and not painted chevy orange.
Nice pic George to display.......
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william
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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2012, 08:17:35 PM »

Also notice the engine lift brackets being natural and not painted chevy orange.
Nice pic George to display.......

They probably aren't natural. Some of the bracketry on aluminum intake engines was brush painted.
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 02:13:06 PM »

JohnZ wrote:
"Have your buddy read my "1st Generation Camaro Assembly Process" report if he doesn't believe how the body and sheet metal were painted; the Fisher Body/Car Division assembly plants painted the body and front sheet metal in different plants for 50 years.  "

Good example and case in point:   I own 55 and '57 Nomads, both assembled in the Atlanta, GA assembly plant.   but ALL Nomad bodies were build in Cleveland ('55 thru '57 at least).   The Cleveland fisher body plant delivered the bodies (from firewalll back) painted and complete with interior in place,  in Atlanta (and other assembly plants as far away as LA), the bodies were placed on the chassis along with engines and drivetrain, front sheet metal etc..  so in these (and lots of cases) the front clips were painted not only in different (adjacent plants) but also in different STATES with a train ride in between...  Smiley

Gary / 69Z28-RS
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2012, 10:06:24 AM »

George,
Can you take a photo of your front engine lift hook. I saw yours in this photo and noticed it is angled like mine and not rounded. The person the did the inspection on my car said this was not the correct lift. But, knowing our two cars were built at the same plant in the same week and now seeing yours I am think that it is factory intstalled even though it is not the rounded lift hook.
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NoYenko
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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2012, 12:29:21 PM »

Mickey, The engine from my car was taken apart 18 years ago by previous owner. He saved & bagged everything, but I got 2 lift brackets in with the parts. I saw the squared top bracket in Jerry's book and decided to use that one. Does not make it correct though. Maybe these are left over 1968 brackets because I have seen them on 68 396's.
Here are pictures of both of mine.  George.
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2012, 03:09:05 PM »

Thanks George. The top pic is the bracket that is on my car.
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copo
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2012, 04:51:17 PM »

The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2012, 10:14:13 AM »

<<The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.>>

Huh Those two statements appear to conflict with each other.
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mickeystoys69RSSS
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2012, 07:23:27 PM »

Yes I was a little confused about that myself. Can you please clarify?
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NoYenko
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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2012, 08:39:31 PM »

The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.
The rounded bracket with the small hole in I do not think was for throttle return spring because the hole is on the front of the bracket away from the carb. Here is a picture of the rounded bracket. It has a part number 3969829 stamped on it but the 8 is very faint, could be a 3. This picture is again from the 1970 454 LS6. George.
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