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|-+  Orphans - documentation or VIN-stamped drivetrains - in search of the original cars
| |-+  1969 - Orphans
| | |-+  Orphaned block 19N571318
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Author Topic: Orphaned block 19N571318  (Read 4501 times)
z28z11
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« on: August 05, 2012, 07:25:50 PM »

Attention 19N571318 Camaro owner - your block is taking up space on my engine stand.
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1968 Z28 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77 LeMans/W
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 08:07:25 PM »

What's the engine assembly stamp?

Paul
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KurtS
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 12:50:32 AM »

Umm, could this be a 396 block??
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Kurt S
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 06:52:32 PM »

Quite possibly - if the car is still around, it would be a nice thing to reunite this one. Wouldn't mind it coming here to meet the engine and get acquainted.
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 01:19:27 PM »

I don't know where the car is but I will ask. It's blue, btw.

When you get a chance, can you email me a close-up picture of the engine pad?

Thanks!
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Kurt S
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 10:23:47 PM »

I'll try to get to it this weekend - I have it buried in the garage, but the corner of the block above the filter is visible enough to see the VIN.
Curious about the info you have uncovered - could you determine if it's a coupe or convertible ? You really have my interest up a notch -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 10:24:11 AM »

It's a coupe. Take a look at page 105 of Jerry's book....
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Kurt S
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 02:05:47 PM »

Wow, it's a L78!

Paul
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z28z11
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 09:27:13 PM »

Amazingly sharp eyes - as many hours/years as I have spent going through the Definitive book, I never thought to look at the window stickers (or shippers) to see if it matched. That's almost as good of a detective job as Jerry locating the 'Old Reliable' '68.

Yes, it is a JH, standard bore - now you also know why I was a little cagey in releasing that info. If we could only find the car (intact), maybe the current (legit, and only legit) owner would like to deal for the original block - wonder where Jerry got the window sticker copy ?

Great job - BTW, if the car is gone, this block will reside in my '69 L78 Cortez original SS someday - the original block is damaged (makes a good 500 pound Protect-O-Plate). Got both blocks with the car when I bought it -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 10:32:10 PM »

Kurt,

  I apologize for not sending these sooner. Lighting conditions in my garage are not conducive to high contrast pictures, so I used White-Out to highlight the stamping, in case you are wondering what the light colored stuff is. T1215JH, cast date K228, VIN 19N571318 (stamped from the transmission side up, kind of the opposite direction from a lot of blocks I have seen. Casting date is on the side of the block, my original is behind the manifold at the bellhousing flange (also is VIN stamped on the front pad, prior to the January location change).
I did measure the bores (for the first time) - I had stated in an earlier post that it was standard bore, but it's .060 over. No ridge, could possibly stay at .060, but at least it is an original block.

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 11:47:52 PM »

Thanks for the pics!
Hope the leads turn out and the block gets reunited.
Kurt
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Kurt S
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 10:58:39 PM »

Evening -

I'm going to request as many opinions as I can on this - I won't be surprised if they are pretty diverse. Just no offensive remarks, please - I'm a car owner like many of you, and an enthusiast like the rest of you.

I have been in conversation with the subject VIN car's owner concerning this block, and have offered it to him at what I think is a reasonable price - $1500.00. What I think is a reasonable price doesn't exactly coincide with what the owner thinks it should be.
 
I also think of my own situation, in that when and if I give this block up, I'm back to square 1 with my car, an original L78 with a damaged original block. Both blocks came with my car, with the intact block meant as a "spare" L78 block intended as the builder for restoring this car to driving condition. Do I search for a close date 272 4 bolt block to build, or build a later model block and hang all of my matching-casting-numbered/dated engine pieces and accessories on it for visual correctness ? My personal preference would be to get as close a match to the casting date and codes as I can (but not to restamp or clone one, as I already have the original salted away).

$64 question - how much is an original block worth to an original car ? How much value does it add to the vehicle ? Is $1500 too much to ask for  a 1-of-4,889 L78 original motors (blocks) ? Am I way out in left field ? Do I forgot all of this, and build it and drop it in my car ?


I welcome any opinions - the ones mentioned above are strictly my own -

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 11:37:06 PM »

if the block is "good", I'd think 1500 would be a more than fair price .. if he won't pay it.  then use it for your car!   
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 08:59:30 AM »

If you had 557961, I would give you $1500.00 for it. There is a guy up north that makes 4 bolts out of 272 blocks that probably has a later date coded block he could fix for you and even stamp it CE. Then you are not fooling anyone that it is a replacement block. My 12A has a F119 CE in it. If I see one of the 4889 that says born with block I would be suspious about it because I can,t believe that many survived. My car is an auto with 355,s and the original block still did not make it.
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 09:19:12 AM »

I would think that the original block would add at least $1500 value to said car. Just curious, how far apart? A lot? A little?

Another thought: No time issue for either of you regarding this. Maybe let in sink in for a while, and who knows, maybe the positions change?


Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 12:37:32 PM »

Jerry MacNeish has stated in another CRG thread that the original engine adds "about a 33% increase in value on the car"

Paul
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 01:59:58 PM »

A having the original block in his car would add $15,000 to the price of his car! If he wouldn't  go for 1500 for his block, tell him to change his medication and put it in your car. He probably wants you to deliver it too! The nerve of some people's children!
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 04:42:03 PM »

Thanks for the input so far - keep it going.

In all fairness, I should add a couple of concerns that the owner has about this block - 1) It's .060 over. No ridge in the bores, but some surface rusting (not pitted, but probably should be derusted, then honed). Pretty sure it will clean up without a problem. It was like this when I got it, been covered/garaged since I had it, but since I thought it was a standard bore for years, I was going to bore it .030 and use the L2242 pistons I had bought for it to assemble. He's afraid he'll have to sleeve all of the cylinders, or it won't be usable (like my 500 lb. boat anchor/Protect-O-Plate). 2) Initial disbelief that it is his legitimate block. My answer back - "why would I restamp a block with a random number, or any number different from my VIN ?". No answer from that question, but his interest remains.

If this deal was reversed, I have the opposite opinion - usable or not, it is the original block - that only happens once, long ago. There sure are a bunch of non-matching-numbered cars out there.
BTW - my engine is stamped as you see it (pic), his is 12/15. About a month difference in build dates (1st week December to possible 1st-2nd week in January).

Regards,
Steve   
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 08:40:38 PM »

Steve, I would sit on the block and keep looking for a closer build date block until you are ready to build the motor.  Then make your decision to be the better man or use the block for yourself. No one would argue that you should give the block away. I'm thinking the real reason the guy is not jumping on the block is because its .060 over. For some reason, this has always been a turn off when buying a car or motor when the motor is bored .060..

MTCW - If it was the original block for my car, I would buy the block take photos of the pad, get it notarized and then sleeve it, and deck it and restamp it.. So what if you spent $3,000 grand on the block, it would be the original one.

TMR
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 08:42:57 AM »

It is a big block, there is plenty of meat on that block. A big block could go .100 over with no problem. iTIS HIS ORIGINAL BLOCK!!!!!
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2012, 12:42:12 PM »

Personally, I find it difficult to believe anyone would turn down the opportunity to purchase their original block, especially for a solid lifter car... however a friend with a 68 Z28 had the same thing happen when he contacted the owner of the car for which he had the Original MO. Unfortunately many of these will never be reunited.
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2012, 12:07:30 AM »

What is wrong with your block?
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Kurt S
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2012, 09:08:36 AM »

Horsepower - too much of it. According to a past owner, the car was a drag car for some period of time - evidently while under a moderate level of rpm, it launched a piston through the cylinder wall (I suspect the rod was the culprit) into the lifter valley. Bad enough, but at least it went to the inside rather than the outside. Deck surface is still intact, but I don't think it's repairable. I guess it's possible to sleeve it, and patch the inside of the block, but I agree with the guy that owned the car before me - considering the fact it came with a "spare" block, it's much cheaper (and more reliable) to build another block to use as a driver, and keep the original as what it is - a 500 pound Protect-O-Plate. Not something you can leave in the glovebox, but pretty effective for documentation. I'll try to get a pic of the damage posted today - maybe someone has a better opinion of it (recovery or paperweight).

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2012, 09:38:44 PM »

(Reply to Kurt's question of what's wrong with my original block)

Happy Halloween - here's some stills from my latest horror classic -

Explanation - #4 cylinder breezeway. Note the details of: nice view of the #6 cylinder wall internally, the lifters still stuck in their respective bores, the new trapdoor from the lifter valley into the water jacket, the remaining half of the cam still jammed in the cam bore, with lifters still in place. One heck of an explosion - must haver been running something mixed in with the premium gas, like nitro. Either that, or the cylinder hydrauliced. Bet the driver was mildly surprised, especially if the intake came off of it a couple of inches.

Amazing fact - as bad as the destruction is/was, somebody was smart enough to keep the block with the car -

Sympathy donations accepted !

Regards,
Steve
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2012, 02:04:09 PM »

Looks like connecting rod failure. Seen a 396 one years ago after drag race rod failure. Rod bent like pretzel.  One piston frozen in place. Block becomes shrapnel. When it happens, it literally is an explosion.

Jimmy V.
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 03:16:45 PM »

Looks like that F motor I raced in the 70,s. Cam broke and dropped a piece down on the crank. I pulled a head and all looks good till I pushed on a piston. It fell into oilpan. Funny thing was it made no noise or anything just cut off at high RPM.
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 09:01:57 AM »

I'm sure it could be fixed, even though it is awfully beat up. If the car isn't driven too hard the block would most likely have no problems.
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2012, 01:13:46 PM »

Just my $.02, but $1500 for the orig block is a GIFT to the owner of the car.
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2012, 12:12:16 AM »

Thanks for the $0.02 - that's pretty much how I feel.

The owner's offer is pretty low - I'll keep and build it myself. I'm certainly not afraid of .060 over, seeing as I don't intention Banzai 7000 rpm launches or street racing - old age finally taught me the errors of youth and hormones. I prefer the sound of an idling solid lifter big block than a 10,000 rpm imported FWD sewing machine.

Regards,
Steve
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