Author Topic: Special Front Bumper VE3 differences between OEM & aftermarket (Read 29815 times)

x66 714 · « **on:** July 17, 2012, 06:54:30 PM »

I was looking for research between original & reproduction VE3 bumpers. How can you tell the difference off the car? Are things real noticable? Thanks, Joe

x66 714 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2012, 11:05:46 PM »

Maybe I should've said 1969 endura. Some people don't know it by it's real name...Joe

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:01:33 AM »

The 1969 camaro tv commercial refers to the bumper as (New resilient bumper). Nice originals are hard to find, prone to rusting out. Paid $350 for a nice used one 30 years ago!

restore-z28 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:34:07 PM »

Hey Joe, try the below link as there is a difference in overall size and weight of the after market compared to an OE bumper.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155455

william · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:05:30 PM »

Quote from: x66 714 on July 17, 2012, 11:05:46 PM

Maybe I should've said 1969 endura. Some people don't know it by it's real name...Joe

Chevrolet never marketed the VE3 "Special Front Bumper" using the trade name Endura as Pontiac did. I have much of the '69 Camaro marketing info and Chevy never did settle on a name. The US showroom brochure refers to it as the "color-matched" bumper, the Canadian version calls it the "Astro" bumper. All docs list it as "special front bumper."

Not a good design for the rust belt. The steel liner wasn't coated and quickly rusted.

x66 714 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2012, 02:18:32 PM »

Sonny
Thanks for the link. It appears the only option we have is the weight as it is 2000 miles away

William
I'm glad mine's not from the rust belt. My Camaro came from the dry rot belt. My bumper is perfect

Thanks, Joe

Mark · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2012, 03:20:03 PM »

Originals weigh about 12 lbs, the repros weigh about 8 lbs. Real ones are almost exactly 3" tall while the repros are just over 2 3/4" tall measured across the back of the bumper from lip to lip. Repros are more flexible the the originals (softer urethane), theres also a difference in the tabs the the center brackets attach to, the bracket consists of two metal tabs next to each other, one about twice the width of the other, but at different heights to match the bracket that attaches to the frame rail. On the repros both of these brackets are square, while on the original bumpers the larger of the two tabs has an angled cut on the edge furthest from the bumper, and it also has a circular notch cut out of the smaller of the two tabs, the repros smaller tab is just a rectangle, the repros have a square notch cut out on the edge of the larger tab, next to the smaller tab where the tabs meet. Originals are made from an amber colored urethane, repros are molded in a grey colored urethane.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2012, 05:08:47 PM »

a very good summary of he differences, Mark...

crobjones2 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:18:34 PM »

Is there any one that can repair them?

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:11:34 PM »

There are urethane repair materials available, but I can't say how well they can be repaired, as the only repairs I've noticed were the 'bad repair jobs'.. (but of course, it it was repaired perfectly, I would not have noticed..)..

Gary

DONCZ28 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2012, 11:44:12 PM »

Check out You Tube video! (Tv Ad Series 1969 Camaro RS)

mark x22 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:30:27 AM »

This is a

GM one .

rsr · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2015, 04:52:26 PM »

Did Chevrolet / GM make all the endura bumpers in house or another company do it for them? Was it ever a first or second run or changes made during production?Also how many years after 69 where the bumpers stocked by gm for the collision industry in case my camaro was victim of a crash say in 1974? Anybody know when and who started to repo the bumpers?

william · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2015, 05:42:21 PM »

Chevrolet produced many chrome bumpers in-house but VE3 was nothing like those. There may have been more than one supplier involved anyway; one to produce the steel liner/bracket assembly; another to mold the urethane.

#3938643 is not listed in the May 1979 P & A manual. Exactly when it became no longer available would require searching through '70s P & A manuals and price books. A part that was scheduled for discontinuation was noted in the price book as no longer returnable. However it may have remained available. At the time GMPD may have had stock they could continue to sell or they may have scrapped the stock if there was little demand for it. In those days there was a crude locator system dealers could use to find a discontinued part so obtaining one a few years later may have been possible.

rsr · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2015, 06:27:11 PM »

Thanks William for your input...Interesting more than one supplier was involved and realistic... we must assume ALL were made exact in every way? Some production numbers indicate little over 12,500k cars left the factory with VE3 bumpers and that option cost around 42.00?

william · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 PM »

12,650 sold; cost $42.15.

Multiple suppliers on a part is not at all unusual; usually up to the Tier 1 to manage their subs. I planned fasteners on my last career stop; the T1 supplier only cold-formed parts, another supplier plated them, another supplier applied a lock patch. When complete the parts were shipped in bulk to another supplier for packaging. Then shipped to the warehousing facility. Now you know why service parts cost so much.

They may not have been "made exact in every way" as the T1 supplier for a production part may not be the supplier for the service part. For example the molding house that set up to continuously produce 200 bumpers per week may not be interested 20 per month for service. They send the tooling back and you find a short-run molder to do it; the part will fit and work but may not look exactly the same. A supplier of CNC parts may run them on the latest machining center for production, when non-current they may use an older, slower machine for short runs. Same supplier, but parts may not be exactly the same as production.

rsr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2015, 11:59:04 AM »

I agree and understand the process thank you. So with that being said could it be possible out of the 12,650 VE3 bumpers plus every how many extras were made to supply the parts dept. a few differences in the brackets and materials used might have happened thus resulting in a couple different factory VE3 bumpers?

william · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2015, 05:33:01 PM »

Unknown and unknowable. Too many variables involved.

ZLP955 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2015, 09:37:16 AM »

rsr it sounds like you have one and are trying to determine if it's GM or not, is that correct?

william · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2015, 12:39:53 PM »

While there may be slight detail differences between production and service parts the parts still had to be per print. The extreme differences noted in the repro would not have been acceptable.

rsr · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2015, 01:24:39 PM »

Only searching to make sure that all VE3 bumpers would look exact...And yes I found one for sale the owner has had since the 80s and thinks it's oem. Also one of my customers bought a bumper from Heartbeat city a few years back and I questioned it then this other bumper I just heard about looks similar to me so I started the search to find out if any differences happen..Kinda like service JL8 axle tubes and several other parts with a couple designs for these cars.I've seen some real bad repos but evidently some nicer ones were made years ago? I 've always avoided most repo parts so I never inspected the bumpers much but will go and look closer this week.Thanks to everyone!

ZLP955 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 28, 2015, 08:42:17 AM »

There are some threads here with pictures of originals, but if you need details of a specific area, let me know. I have a couple of VE3 bumpers, one original to my car (but still fitted, so won't get pictures of the back face) and a spare that was removed from a Rallye Green car in the early 70's.

rsr · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2015, 12:16:28 PM »

I'd be more interested in seeing pics of the oldest repos from the 80s if possible? I got a couple original VE3 that's in my 40 year collection but are in very bad shape....rusty and bent! The bumper in question came from Carl Dwiggins in the early 80s and the owner thinks it's not a repo? I'm more curious when the earliest VE3s were reproduced...Thanks again for your help!

WorkinProgress · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2015, 12:55:43 PM »

VE3 bumper #3938643 went discontinued on 6/75

- Warren

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2015, 01:36:23 PM »

This is a reproduction bumper and it shows how much material must be added to make them fit Correctly.

After filling and fitting prime with Spies Heckler Flexible primer then base and clear using flexible additive.

Finished Bumper

rsr · « **Reply #25 on:** April 28, 2015, 04:21:05 PM »

Nice job James! Got any pics of the back side?

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 28, 2015, 05:36:29 PM »

very good work. The fitment looks really nice. I have friend with an original V3 bumper on his car, and it looks very similar.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2015, 09:20:10 PM »

ONE OTHER DIFFERENCE IS THE INNER MOUNTING METAL IS MUCH THINNER ON THE REPRO.
The one on the Blue Car is a reproduction and you might as well give up trying to get them to fit ANY WHERE CLOSE TO correctly without adding material. I SPENT UNTOLD HOURS before just adding material!!!
The back looks like the one pictured on team camaro, molded in grey with the slots in the back. NO ROUND support points like the originals.

You have to clean the repro EXTREMELY WELL due to the mold release.

I also roughed up the area where I was adding material with a rasp in order to give it an accepting surface with which to bond

I use 3M automix flexible repair and Spies Hecker Flexible primer, (one to one mix ratio) then a compatible flexible additive in the clear coat.

I ended up mounting the outer side mounts with no bushing between the bumper and the mount to pull up as close as possible, then I taped off the fenders and grille, built up the outside ears to fill the gaps pulled the bumper filled and filed then checked and had to add in a few more places, primed and then painted it.

Also I have found that the easiest fitment comes by bolting the two side mounts to the fender extensions first and aligning the bumper then, pulling the frame horn mounts up to the bumper and bolting them into place... sometimes the two mounting points want to bind with one another.

rsr · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2015, 09:51:51 PM »

James, I do appreciate your instructions and many pics on how to repair urethane. I've been doing bodywork since 1972 myself but never to old to learn? I've also dealt with plenty of parts fitting problems during that time! Maybe you should write a book on restorations and share ALL that knowledge about doing it your way? I'm currently restoring the 1 and only 67 Baldwin Motion chevelle,68 Baldwin Motion camaro,69 Baldwin Motion camaro with Hone drive,69 JL8 Xram with endura bumper and a few not so popular camaros of my own. Thanks for your imput again!

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2015, 01:05:18 AM »

I thought you were the one restoring Kevin's 67 BM Chevelle. That car is BAD...

Quote from: BULLITT65 on April 28, 2015, 05:36:29 PM

very good work. The fitment looks really nice. I have friend with an original V3 bumper on his car, and it looks very similar.

I was fortunate to have the original paint black RS/Z with the original paint VE3 so I knew how they were supposed to fit... just had to replicate it.
BTW the guys at Ricks (before Ecklers) said that it wouldn't fit right and I would spend MANY hours especially if using repro brackets.

The REPRO VE3 BUMPER installed using all the original VE3 hardware causes the repro bumper to fit with the same gaps as an ORIGINAL CHROME BUMPER. 3/8-1/2" gaps

rsr · « **Reply #30 on:** April 30, 2015, 01:20:30 PM »

Does anybody know WHEN the first VE3 bumpers were reproduced? I've gotten answers from long time parts suppliers saying 15-20 years?? I've seen 2 bumpers made from different colored urethane than the amber and gray mentioned here?? Come on James help figure this out...

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #31 on:** April 30, 2015, 01:25:04 PM »

Quote from: rsr on April 30, 2015, 01:20:30 PM

Does anybody know WHEN the first VE3 bumpers were reproduced? I've gotten answers from long time parts suppliers saying 15-20 years?? I've seen 2 bumpers made from different colored urethane than the amber and gray mentioned here?? Come on James help figure this out...

Weren't all the original parts made from the orangish/amber? urethane? (It's true for the ones I recall seeing long ago)

rsr · « **Reply #32 on:** April 30, 2015, 04:40:36 PM »

I've seen that material as well but how long after june 1975 was it before the 1st repo came out? Do you remember seeing any of those?Anybody got an original made in 1974-75 range to compare?

cook_dw · « **Reply #33 on:** April 30, 2015, 04:45:56 PM »

Ill look at the one I have at home tonight and take some photos. I know its an original that came off one of the pc's that my father owned.

z28z11 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 30, 2015, 09:51:41 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on April 30, 2015, 01:25:04 PM

Quote from: rsr on April 30, 2015, 01:20:30 PM
Does anybody know WHEN the first VE3 bumpers were reproduced? I've gotten answers from long time parts suppliers saying 15-20 years?? I've seen 2 bumpers made from different colored urethane than the amber and gray mentioned here?? Come on James help figure this out...

Weren't all the original parts made from the orangish/amber? urethane? (It's true for the ones I recall seeing long ago)

My original VE3 is molded from amber colored urethane, no doubt about it. I had a spare original (sold some years back to a CRG member), that, although with two coats of different paint colors on it, had the appearance of being molded from a different colored urethane. I did a lengthy photo session with the two to make sure of the originality to the new owner - I'll try and dig through the archives to see if I have any relative shots.

I've got the rat hoarder's collection of catalogs around here (dating back to late 70's) - I will research to see when they were first advertised. By the way - they are pretty easy to tell apart when you try to install them - repros just don't fit right -

Regards,
Steve

rsr · « **Reply #35 on:** April 30, 2015, 11:06:16 PM »

I'm really interested in finding out about the different colored urethane! Thanks !!

copo · « **Reply #36 on:** April 30, 2015, 11:31:56 PM »

Does anybody know WHEN the first VE3 bumpers were reproduced? I bought a Repro VE3 bumper from Classic Camaro in 1985. I recall seeing them been advertised in the Classic Camaro Catalogs around 1984.

rsr · « **Reply #37 on:** May 01, 2015, 12:36:59 AM »

Be nice to see the advertisement...Thanks for the info,very interesting!

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #38 on:** May 01, 2015, 05:38:47 AM »

I thought I had remembered them by the mid 80's, I can't recall how well they fit.

cook_dw · « **Reply #39 on:** May 02, 2015, 12:11:04 AM »

A day late but here they are..

Mark · « **Reply #40 on:** May 02, 2015, 01:01:48 AM »

Repro in front, real in the back

Mark · « **Reply #41 on:** May 02, 2015, 01:06:46 AM »

Same arrangement

crobjones2 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 10, 2015, 12:23:45 AM »

Does anyone repair the originals? mine is bent and I would like to straighten it back to original shape

69pace · « **Reply #43 on:** May 10, 2015, 01:34:04 AM »

Never owned one myself but http://www.endurabumper.com/restorationservices/

or DIY http://www.goatsgarage.com/bumplft.html

ZLP955 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 10, 2015, 09:22:00 AM »

Chris, how bad is it bent? Do you have a picture of it? My original VE3 (still fitted) took a shipping ding on the passenger side between inner and outer brackets when the car was in transit on the Pacific, and I've been putting off the straightening job for far too long. Going to make it a must-do project over our Southern Hemisphere winter (your summer, so next few months). No idea what the inner steel structure consists of, but if I can't reshape it with tools I have in my workshop, going to have to take it to a collision/body guy.....

z28z11 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 11, 2015, 02:24:40 AM »

The first shot of the black primered VE3 below is what leads me to believe there might be another color involved. Note the small cut on the back top surface - definitely dark underneath, not amber. Definite original, shaped exactly like my original Lemans bumper in the second picture, same brackets and round mold points.

The only way to have determined the base color would have been to sand it - no way I would have done that, though. Didn't really even think about other material colors other than to compare all the details to make sure it wasn't a repro -

Thanks and regards,
Steve

rsr · « **Reply #46 on:** May 12, 2015, 01:12:14 AM »

Thanks for sharing this info.....obviously a different colored material was used?
RSR

rsr · « **Reply #47 on:** May 19, 2015, 12:36:33 PM »

Steve, Do you have anymore pics of the dark urethane bumper ?

z28z11 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:09:20 PM »

Try these. The red tint you see is a previous red top coat over the black. In a couple of shots, you can see the black underneath the end bracket mounting areas.

Goes without saying - I should not have sold this one, although it did go to a CRG member. Too hard to replace nowadays -

Regards,
Steve

z28z11 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:10:42 PM »

More -

rsr · « **Reply #50 on:** May 22, 2015, 11:34:23 AM »

Thank you Steve... We can see the back side it's made from black and not the Amber colored urethane.Got any more detailed pics of the back?

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Author Topic: Special Front Bumper VE3 differences between OEM & aftermarket (Read 29815 times)